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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kaycee-Nicole

 

kaycee-nicole · Kaycee Nicole Forum

 

608 From: "Jen"

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 5:23pm

Subject: Re: Editorial from the Newton Kansan sparrow@...

Send Email

 

"That thar intarnit thing. It's big, its complicated, I'm too lazy to

understand it and I've got a deadline. Fact checking's for wimps".

 

 

609 From: "John Harris Stevenson <tranquileye.com>"

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 5:52pm

Subject: Re: Editorial from the Newton Kansan tranquileye@...

Send Email

 

This is real? "Don't be so darned gullible"?

 

Well, shucks.

 

I would have laughed if it wasn't a little scarey.

 

 

611 From: dominique@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:02pm

Subject: Re: Editorial from the Newton Kansan dominique@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "John Harris Stevenson

<tranquileye.com>" wrote:

> This is real? "Don't be so darned gullible"?

>

> Well, shucks.

>

> I would have laughed if it wasn't a little scarey.

 

Sounds to me like he's probably fishing for an ourcry of outrage and

justifications from the 'Net community (especially those intimately

involved.) I wouldn't give him the attention he seems to crave with

a reply.

 

 

612 From: z_zz_z_zz_z@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:07pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 z_zz_z_zz_z@...

Send Email

 

> What really caught my attention was to see how far those

> who hardly knew this fake blogs even existed, were willing

> to go in order to crack the case. I can understand why from

> a journalistic point of view some would be interested. But

> what about all the others who joined the fray.

 

Pretend that there's a mystery in front of you, and all you have to do to s=

olve it is spend a little time clicking around or making a few phone calls a=

nd interacting with others who are doing the same. It was a mystery - there'=

s nothing more intriguing than a mystery, particularly when you may have the=

means to SOLVE the mystery sitting right in front of you.

 

> Then again, isn't that what blogging is all about, a community of

> online journals where people more or less compete for attention?

 

I'm not quite sure how posting your thoughts and ideas and writing on the w=

eb is competing. This reminds me of how English teachers make you dissect p=

oetry, thinking that that's the way to understand it, or how the poem came a=

bout, and it doesn't even TOUCH on it. The energy that brings a weblog into=

creation can't be understood by looking at the end product and comparing th=

em to each other, or even by looking at webloggers who talk about stats. Tw=

o different things.

 

> From what I've observed, no matter how trivial the subject matter

> is, the more readers visit the more admired and respected the

> writer becomes.

 

Your observations may help you pinpoint trends after the fact, but not moti=

vations or inspirations.

 

Also, ever heard of a 'meme' - it's not just a 'net thing, it happens in 'r=

eal life' all the time. It's just more obvious on the net because it tends =

to happen more quickly and you can watch the trail of links.

 

> Which brings me back to Debbie's apparent original intent. This

> all seems to me like nothing more than a quest for acceptance and

> love, and evidence as to what lengths some are willing to go in

> order to feel worthy of such attention.

 

I can't argue with you there.

 

> I agree with those who say that the only REAL people hurt by all

> of this are few and far between.

 

I think if people believe they are hurt, then they are. Who are you or I t=

o dispute that based on some objective criteria?

 

> I've spoken to many friends about this story that have never

> heard of blogging. Their reaction was actually quite placid.

> In other words, I barely got nod or heard the clichéd "what's the

> world coming to" reaction.

 

Well, I blog. I didn't hear about the kaycee thing until after. I read up =

here to see what's happening next. Isn't that why people read books? Watch=

movies?

 

> Those of us who've been a round a while have witnessed many

> examples of Internet deception over the years. Married people

> for instance, pretending to be successful singles, looking for

> thrills borders on the absolute ridiculous. Little gifts and

> cards are constantly being exchanged, yet as far as I know,

> nobody has ever been hospitalized for the disease of humiliation.

> Loosing face is a real bitch, but in time we've all had to bear

> our shame as gracefully as we could. TV newsmagazine programs

> thrive on stories of Internet child abductions and the like, but

> never report the good and positive aspects of the Internet.

> Judging by the success of these idiot so-called "reality" shows,

> we seem to have become a society of thrill seekers who dismiss

> the virtuous as boring, and who prefer concentrating on the

> sensational and the malicious flourishing in the chaos of it

> all. So how is this latest scandal any different?

 

Who says it is? I can respect your opinions here, of course, even if I don=

't share them. I'd like to offer another option for you too - perhaps you c=

an consider that there are others who have NOT had your 'widely traveled' ex=

periences or observational abilities and who ARE experiencing things like th=

is for the first time. And if they are not, people follow this thread for t=

heir own reasons, I'm sure none of them are the same as anyone else's.

 

> My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate

> crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously

> penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that

> can prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk

> down Main Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't

> know about you all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my

> own health concerns, which in the face of all of this I'm loathe

> to mention in any of the forums I belong to, I'd be willing to

> pluck the 1st duck.

 

Why should ducks have to suffer?

 

I can recognize that you may be undergoing a "legitimate" health crisis (al=

though you didn't say that specifically, I understand.) But belittling other=

people because you don't see THEIR pain as real, seems pointless - there's =

no way to compare.

 

And why, if you say that you see someone who was just reaching out for love=

and attention, do you think an excellent response would be to tar and feath=

er? Your post seemed to be attempting to dismiss the situation in some way.=

You don't really need a REASON to dismiss it - just let it go. And you do=

n't need a REASON to accept that you are undergoing difficulty, and it doesn=

't have to be proven to be any more and less painful than anyone else's to b=

e valid.

 

ZZ

 

 

613 From: dominique@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:34pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...

Send Email

 

Well, ZZ (or whoever you really are) it sorta goes like this. I

don't mind if you disagree with me. As far as I can tell the point of

this forum is to offer different points of view, and I can accept

yours without feeling personally disapproved of. For those same

reasons, I don't feel as though I need to justify every syllable,

word, or paragraph to you either. Furthermore, the exact natures of

my health concerns are none of your business. Suffice it to say

though, that because of this er… mystery as you call it (and

especially in light of it's aftermath), I find that I'm powerless to

share them period. That should be enough of an explanation for

anybody reading this for the 1st time, or the millionth time

regardless of their skills.

 

Now on the the show... I'm certainly interested in reading more

newspaper articles.

 

 

614 From: bellarthur@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:45pm

Subject: UK media coverage bellarthur@...

Send Email

 

Readers in the UK will wish to know that Monday's Guardian newspaper

will be publishing a feature on the Kaycee hoax. This is a

nationally-distributed broadsheet paper, widely respected as one of

the papers of record.

 

The article *may* be available on the media section's website, <

www.mediaguardian.co.uk > from around midnight British time (1900

Sunday EDT) As Monday is a public holiday in the UK, the article may

not be uploaded until midnight Tuesday morning (1900 Monday EDT)

 

A summary will be forwarded to this group in about 24 hours.

 

 

615 From: "Skysage"

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:18pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...

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Most excellent points, Dominique.

 

Though I have seen my fair share of BS on the net in the past six

years my over all experiences have been quite positive.

 

My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16

years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other 2

years ago due to the Internet.

 

 

616 From: BeanSprouts@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 3:19pm

Subject: Re: Re: In reply to message 228 BeanSprouts@...

Send Email

 

In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!, skysage5@yahoo.com

writes:

 

 

 

My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16

years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other 2

years ago due to the Internet.

 

 

 

wow. thats awesome.

 

 

617 From: "Skysage"

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:34pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,

skysage5@y...

> writes:

>

>

> > My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16

> > years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each

other 2

> > years ago due to the Internet.

>

>

> wow. thats awesome.

 

It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those years I

held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so long

that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the

system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.

 

 

618 From: "Skysage"

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:38pm

Subject: current events? skysage5@...

Send Email

 

It seems that all the message boards and media have beaten this story

to death. We are all perfectly informed or should I say over informed

as to the events.

 

I became aware of "Kaycee" about a week before she "died." I felt

saddened that I hadn't been able to get to know her while she

was "alive." So that was the extent of it for me.

 

Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges going to be

filed against Debbie?

 

 

619 From: dominique@...

Date: Sun May 27, 2001 8:34pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> Most excellent points, Dominique.

>

> Though I have seen my fair share of BS on the net in the past six

> years my over all experiences have been quite positive.

>

> My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16

> years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other

2

> years ago due to the Internet.

 

All I can say to that is BRAVO! And thank you for sharing your story.

 

 

620 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:58am

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:

> > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,

> skysage5@y...

> > writes:

> >

> >

> It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those years

I

> held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so

long

> that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the

> system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.

 

so like how do you get along now?

 

you don't let him smoke in your house and his girlfriends are well,

just trailer park trash and you hate his harley and all the noise it

makes and his tattoos and earrings are really over the top...

 

 

621 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 4:09am

Subject: Re: Editorial from the Newton Kansan bonni@...

Send Email

 

Damn stupid people, tryin' to find things out about people. It's only

the innernet! Quit believin' there are REAL people out there! Lookee,

just only pay attention to big, corporate, reputable websites and

stop givin' a hoot about them little personal sites! After all, the

big, scary, ol' innernet is about commerce, innit?

 

bonni

http://bonni.net/

 

 

622 From: saundra@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:03pm

Subject: Media Coverage in Italy saundra@...

Send Email

 

I have no idea what this says, but I suspect it's somewhat scathing.

 

Italia Online

http://scanali:sc2k!@.../societa/primopiano.html

 

Saundra

 

 

623 From: "Meg Pickard"

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:23pm

Subject: UK media coverage: The Guardian meg@...

Send Email

 

As mentioned yesterday, The Guardian provides insightful and fair coverage of the whole saga:

 

 

 

 

624 From: "Meg Pickard"

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:24pm

Subject: Guardian Coverage meg@...

Send Email

 

(itchy trigger finger, sorry)

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,497422,00.html

 

Meg

 

>

hello@notsosoft.com

www.notsosoft.com

 

 

 

 

625 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 5:27pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 angelwng@...

Send Email

 

First, I've heard other people feel that they can't share openly now,

for fear of being doubted or Scooby'ed - I really don't get that. I

think that plenty of folks read what's written in journals and blogs

and either don't believe it, don't like it, or don't trust it - or

they love it, believe it, and find inspiration from it - nothing

truly changes because of this. If someone wants to share their

experience, they should do it for the reasons they already have. If

you want to keep your thoughts private for fear of what anyone else

will think, keep it private.

 

Dominique, if you were loathe to mention your health problems, you

wouldn't have, and if you think that punishing Debbie will bring back

your ability to post your thoughts without scrutiny, it's way to late

for that - that train left the station years ago. Being around the

web so long, though, you should realize that this was *far* from the

first online hoax, and it most certainly will not be the last.

 

My suggestion for anyone who interacts with people in any way, is to

find their own voice and simply use it.

 

Two quotes fit nicely - "To thine own self be true." ~Shakespeare

and "You must be the change you'd like to see in the world." ~Ghandi

 

>... My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate

crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously

penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that can

prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk down Main

Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't know about you

all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my own health concerns,

which in the face of all of this I'm loathe to mention in any of the

forums I belong to, I'd be willing to pluck the 1st duck.

>

> Dominique

 

 

626 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 5:36pm

Subject: Re: current events? truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

based on current press information the case has been turned over to

the fbi on possible charges of mail fraud--no word on if arrests have

been made or if criminal charges will be filed.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> It seems that all the message boards and media have beaten this

story

> to death. We are all perfectly informed or should I say over

informed

> as to the events.

>

> I became aware of "Kaycee" about a week before she "died." I felt

> saddened that I hadn't been able to get to know her while she

> was "alive." So that was the extent of it for me.

>

> Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges going to be

> filed against Debbie?

 

 

627 From: dhartung@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:13pm

Subject: Re: current events? dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> > Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges

> > going to be filed against Debbie?

> based on current press information the case has been turned

> over to the fbi on possible charges of mail fraud--no word on

> if arrests have been made or if criminal charges will be filed.

 

All we really know is that various law-enforcement agencies have been

made aware and are looking into it, the FBI included. There was an

off-the-record indication that, short of some magical figure around

$20,000, federal charges were unlikely. (The recent well-publicized

series of 68 arrests for internet fraud, mostly in online auctions

etc., worked out to an average of more than that scammed per case --

I think around $25,000, or some 50-100 times the apparent sum total

of gifts collected in Kaycee's name. With sharks like that around,

nobody's going to bother with a guppy.)

 

 

628 From: dhartung@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:22pm

Subject: Re: Media Coverage in Italy dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> I have no idea what this says, but I suspect it's

> somewhat scathing.

>

> Italia Online

> http://scanali:sc2k!@.../societa/primopiano.html

 

Babelfished:

::soi-disant translation::

edited by Lorenza Provenzano

 

Impossible to visualize the person

 

One life like one page web: totally virtual and next to definitively

being archiviata in the limbo of the pages impossible to visualize,

those that error 404 gives. This has been in synthesis the parabola

of the virtual existence of Kaycee Nicole Swenson, beautiful and

blond diciannovenne of the Kansas, whose sorriso angelic it appeared

only light clouded from the serious disease. Brave and optimistic,

Kaycee has not faticato to make rubble in the heart of the migliaia

of navigators who have shared with she the suffering of the leucemia,

donandole cappellini when it cried on the sfoltimento of the chioma

to continuation of the chemioterapiche cures, spendendole to weave in

order to acquire books online when it was immobilized to bed and

money in order to support the economic efforts of the mother,

licenziatasi for starle near. Between an email and chattata one,

Kaycee had also the time for rilasciare interviews to the New York

Times and speaking to the telephone with the known friends online.

 

One what inexplicably refused to make: to meet of person how many

they continued to sostenerla with friendship, affection and moral

support. Without warning, 14 past May a scarno communicated of the

mother Debbie Swenson has announced, on the situated one web of

Kaycee, the passing of the girl. While the cordoglio general it found

echo on the tens of situated dedicated to Kaycee, at the same time

they took to body the first suspiciones on this sweet girl from the

writing much strangely tied adult and to music of years ' 70 and ' 80

more than to that one of its contemporarys.

 

Merit of weblogger the Sandra Mitchell, author also she of a per diem

online, and a group of chattisti intentional having to make light on

the entire vicissitude. The conclusion of surveying you make from you

has arrived like one cold shower: no Kaycee Nicole Swenson turned out

from the directory of the deceaseds in the citizen of Peabody, in the

Kansas. And the photos, the mother, the disease? All false.

 

While unaware of university of the Oklahoma the Julie Fullbright she

discovered to have unconsciously lend for two years just the face to

a drama of all the virtual one, little little the truth emerged in

surface. Beautiful and the ill-fated one diciannovenne existed,

beyond that in the heart of migliaia of navigators, solo in the sick

mind of the forty-years old Debbie Swenson, sedicente mother of the

girl. Putting to the grips, the Swenson has confessed of being the

author of the dichiarandosi mistificazione and has motivated the

entire impostura moved from desire to render honor to the memory of

three friends dead women for leucemia. Affaire Swenson hour will

enrich the lawyers of the fantasiosa mrs., while the history leaves

in all a bitter retrogusto.

 

In a recent page of its per diem online, Sandra Mitchell writes a

ironico vademecum from the title " your guide in order to simulate

one life and one virtual dead women ": six bored, appeal to to you to

write, your life are lacking in sense? Not to fear, assures the

Mitchell sarcasticamente, always can inventarti a life parallel and a

bogus identity that emphasis gives to your existence. Who begins with

imagining wants to be, where six NATO, where you live, what you make,

which is preferred yours rock band and above all it thinks: what can

render dramatic and worthy of famous your new life?

::end soi-disant translation::

 

(I do so love babelfishing romance langauges: because of the words

left in that it can't parse, it always ends up sounding like a

Hollywood-style foreign lover. Basta! Sarcasticamente! Google

translations are better, but you can't make it translate random text.)

 

(Btw, babelfish.altavista.com now has a link to an Adams tribute.)

 

 

629 From: "Skysage"

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:41pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> > --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:

> > > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,

> > skysage5@y...

> > > writes:

> > >

> > >

> > It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those

years

> I

> > held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so

> long

> > that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the

> > system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.

>

> so like how do you get along now?

>

> you don't let him smoke in your house and his girlfriends are well,

> just trailer park trash and you hate his harley and all the noise

it

> makes and his tattoos and earrings are really over the top...

 

He is a wonderful man.

 

 

630 From: dominique@...

Date: Mon May 28, 2001 9:32pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...

Send Email

 

You're right of course. I'm not Debbie and my decision to share my

story or not, would never be the same as hers. At the time of my

post, the story was still only a few hours old to me. It was a sort

of knee jerk reaction to something I had written in a small and

private forum only the week before about my condition. I had planned

to share more in time, but once I read about this hoax, I felt

personally violated and cheated, even though I had never heard of

this person before. In a nutshell, I was afraid of being doubted now.

 

Also, my rather glib remarks about punishing Debbie with tar and

feathers were not meant seriously. After reading more about this

story, I realized that she probably received the punishment she

deserved. She has been made into an example before the entire

world. Hopefully this situation will cause others like her to think

twice before trying something like this again.

 

In closing, I can only pray that she devoted all of her time and

energies into her Kaycee persona, and that there are no more "Doctor

Debbie and Mrs. Hides" out there lurking and waiting for her to just

pick-up where she left off.

 

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Cheryl Eve" wrote:

> First, I've heard other people feel that they can't share openly

now,

> for fear of being doubted or Scooby'ed - I really don't get that.

I

> think that plenty of folks read what's written in journals and

blogs

> and either don't believe it, don't like it, or don't trust it - or

> they love it, believe it, and find inspiration from it - nothing

> truly changes because of this. If someone wants to share their

> experience, they should do it for the reasons they already have. If

> you want to keep your thoughts private for fear of what anyone else

> will think, keep it private.

>

> Dominique, if you were loathe to mention your health problems, you

> wouldn't have, and if you think that punishing Debbie will bring

back

> your ability to post your thoughts without scrutiny, it's way to

late

> for that - that train left the station years ago. Being around the

> web so long, though, you should realize that this was *far* from

the

> first online hoax, and it most certainly will not be the last.

>

> My suggestion for anyone who interacts with people in any way, is

to

> find their own voice and simply use it.

>

> Two quotes fit nicely - "To thine own self be true." ~Shakespeare

> and "You must be the change you'd like to see in the world." ~Ghandi

>

> >... My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate

> crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously

> penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that

can

> prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk down

Main

> Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't know about

you

> all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my own health concerns,

> which in the face of all of this I'm loathe to mention in any of

the

> forums I belong to, I'd be willing to pluck the 1st duck.

> >

> > Dominique

 

 

631 From: "simply caren."

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 0:47am

Subject: go on vacation and return to this... caren@...

Send Email

 

whoa! too many messages to read, anyone mind posting links to

articles that i may have missed while i was gone? (23-27)

 

glad to see that everything has unfolded and that julie has done

interviews, etc. hope that she is doing well...

 

 

632 From: acridrabbit@...

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 3:12am

Subject: amazing entry from kristin acridrabbit@...

Send Email

 

Kristin Thomas is ...

 

really smart, really articulate, and really authentic. I lub her.

 

Please read this:

http://www.sperare.com/archives/may01/25may01.html

 

I'm not Kristin, I'm just an admirer.

 

 

633 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 2:14pm

Subject: The Most Interesting Media Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

Because Nua Internet Surveys has turned this into a lesson for people

who run online businesses. Kinda neat!

 

http://www.nua.ie/surveys/analysis/weekly_editorial.html

 

Saundra

 

 

635 From: "Tim Cunningham"

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 5:17pm

Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin timmopussycat@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., acridrabbit@g... wrote:

 

> Please read this post from Kristin Thomas

> http://www.sperare.com/archives/may01/25may01.html

 

It seems that Kristin is suggesting among other things, many of

which are commendable, that BWG and Halcyon may not be as innocent as

they claim, since they gained considerable benefit while the hoax was

on.

While I have no wish to be considered a bully or a zealot, I must

suggest that, at present, such a claim is not justified by the known

facts. So far, their stories jibe, unlike Debbie's which has fallen

apart completely.

[This is not to say that they might not have come down too

heavily on the initial doubters - which is another issue - but their

family members (with pre-existing journals) have confirmed that they

had very strong reasons for believing in Kaycee's existance and

condition, and their reactions if not correct are in that context

understandable.]

The question is not did they gain the mentioned benefits; but did

they gain those benefits as a byproduct of their being deceived like

many of us, or were they active participants in the deception? We had

objective evidence early on that suggested that Kaycee was not as she

appeared to be. Unless similar evidence is produced which either

shows or suggests that Halcyon and BWG have mislead us as to the

nature of their involvement, implicit accusations of their

participation in the hoax are premature and unhelpful both to finding

out the truth and to BWG and Halcyon.

 

 

636 From: "John Harris Stevenson <tranquileye.com>"

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 7:13pm

Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin tranquileye@...

Send Email

 

Is it possible that Halcyon and/or BWG suspected that Kaycee was not

real, or were somehow involved in the hoax? It is possible, but there

is a significant logical leap between that possibility and any actual

evidence that they were somehow in on it.

 

Having read through BWG's lengthy "press release" about his long

relationship with "Kaycee"/Debbie, I can understand his situation. He

appears to have been the victim of an elaborate ruse, and I am sure

he is embarrassed about his angry reaction to those who doubted

Kaycee's existence.

 

One thing I want to warn against is too much unwarranted speculation

that might damage someone's reputation. During the Metafilter

sleuthing I speculated that a certain blogger might have been

involved in the hoax, with little more than circumstantial evidence

to back me up. While I suppose it helped move things along, it also

called into question the reputation of someone I didn't know, and

that was unfair.

 

John S

 

 

637 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 8:08pm

Subject: Follow the money... feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

Who had tangible benefit from promoting the KC Nicole fraud?

 

Certainly 'Debbie' with her PO Box in Newton, KS. I wonder if she

declared all the cash on her taxes, IRS may want to audit her

accounts.

 

BWG with all the free advertising he got from all the traffic going

to his domain to follow the KC weblog and later 'Debbie's'. What if

he is really a Red ChiCom agent trying to sow confusion and doubt in

the US thru PsyWar techniques?

 

Halcyon certainly spends a lot of time shamelessly promoting himself

and BWG, maybe 'Debbie' and BWG were kicking back part of the take.

 

Has anyone called the Newton Post Office and asked if any of the

backroom clerks who pitch the mail at the PO Boxes remember the

volume of stuff coming in for 'KC'? Especially letters cash versus

packages teddie bears...

 

It seems Robert Blake's wife had many aliases and perhaps more than

one drop box where she got money from lonely old guys in exhange for

old dirty pictures of herself, maybe I will start a weblog from her

because she really wasn't killed in North Hollywood that was a

standin ho...

 

 

638 From: acridrabbit@...

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 11:13pm

Subject: a somewhat-related article about photos used without permission acridrabbit@...

Send Email

 

While the FBI may not pursue this, the Fullbrights could certainly

sue. They'd probably win. This article talks about a fellow who

sued an agency over pictures of him used without his permission, and

similar historical cases.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?

f=/c/a/2001/05/29/MN111723.DTL

 

(Be sure to copy the whole url into your address bar to view the

article)

 

 

639 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 29, 2001 11:55pm

Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "John Harris Stevenson

<tranquileye.com>" wrote:

> Is it possible that Halcyon and/or BWG suspected that Kaycee was

not

> real, or were somehow involved in the hoax? It is possible, but

there

> is a significant logical leap between that possibility and any

actual

> evidence that they were somehow in on it.

>

> Having read through BWG's lengthy "press release" about his long

> relationship with "Kaycee"/Debbie, I can understand his situation.

He

> appears to have been the victim of an elaborate ruse, and I am sure

> he is embarrassed about his angry reaction to those who doubted

> Kaycee's existence.

>

> One thing I want to warn against is too much unwarranted

speculation

> that might damage someone's reputation. During the Metafilter

> sleuthing I speculated that a certain blogger might have been

> involved in the hoax, with little more than circumstantial evidence

> to back me up. While I suppose it helped move things along, it also

> called into question the reputation of someone I didn't know, and

> that was unfair.

>

> John S

 

If you promote website's like Kaycee's, and promote yourself at the

same time -- or are involved in any site financially or as far as

control goes -- you set yourself up to be questioned and talked about

in such cases. Only if you're unfairly *charged* with criminal or

immoral activity could you consider your reputation unfairly

maligned. Being questioned or discussed is a totally different story.

UI don't think it's become the norm in America to have your own web

ssite with giant pics of your head (as a sort of logo) on them, or

endless pics of yourself or naked pics of yourself, along with

countless other naked people. The idea of "reputation" could be very

interesting to discuss here in a postmodern context, come to think of

it.

 

640 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 0:03am

Subject: Media Coverage - screen shots angelwng@...

Send Email

 

I was going through some files and had forgotten I had these. For

anyone who might have missed them, I've uploaded a screen shot of the

MSNBC technology cover with the picture of "Kaycee" and the

Oklahoman's article that included a picture of Julie with her mother -

I noticed that the Oklahoman no longer has the picture with the

article. I especially like the pic with Julie and her mom, because

Mrs. Fullbright has her hands on Julie's shoulders with a "this is

*my* daughter!" kind of protective expression.

 

They have their own folder in the "files" section. Feel free to add

them to your collections or archives if you like.

 

Enjoy

 

 

641 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 0:14am

Subject: Re: The Most Interesting Media Coverage angelwng@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> Because Nua Internet Surveys has turned this into a lesson for

people

> who run online businesses. Kinda neat!

>

> http://www.nua.ie/surveys/analysis/weekly_editorial.html

>

> Saundra

 

Interesting indeed - I'm also interested in the marketing angle of

promoting site "stickeiness" by building online communities. While

marketing folks consider this to be a great idea, the comments on the

MSNBC message board were a bit suprizing to me. They were primarily

comments about "come on people! the internet isn't real!" - and this

coming from folks posting to a technology board.

 

Do cases like this show us we're not ready for online "communities"?

are they merely a reflection of the things that happen in real life,

so not suprizing? are attitudes about the legitimacy of online

communication evolving to eventually include the understanding that

real people are typing the words and reading them - and not

somehow "unreal" just because they are on the internet?

 

Not being in the internet field professionally, I can only ask the

questions, but they are interesting to me.

 

 

642 From: Kerri Shafer

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 1:14am

Subject: Re: Re: In reply to message 228 kerrishafer2000@...

Send Email

 

I'm curious...

 

How did you finally find your son on the Internet?

 

I'm so glad you were able to be reunited with him!

 

Kerri

--- Skysage wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:

> > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First

> Boot!!!,

> skysage5@y...

> > writes:

> >

> >

> > > My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex

> husband. After 16

> > > years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching

> we found each

> other 2

> > > years ago due to the Internet.

> >

> >

> > wow. thats awesome.

>

> It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too.

> All those years I

> held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He

> stayed 3 for so long

> that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a

> shock to the

> system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.

>

>

 

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35

a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

 

 

643 From: policraticus@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:03am

Subject: Shameless self-promotion policraticus@...

Send Email

 

Just a shameless plug for my thoughts on all this and for my

heavily underpublicised weblog...

 

http://www.historicalfact.com/~ark/quad/thoughts.shtml

 

=)

 

 

644 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:56am

Subject: CollegeClub.com angelwng@...

Send Email

 

Well, aren't I just posting up a storm here.... ;)

 

This may be old news; I don't remember if there was mention of a

College Club article here or not, but there is one up there now,

along with a picture of "Kaycee" photo-shopped onto a 'puter as an

illustration. There is a message board with comments from CC users as

well.

 

http://www.collegeclub.com/channels/channelarticle.asp?

id=15&article_id=35300

 

I've added a screenshot of the front page, in case anyone wants to

add it to their collection.

 

 

645 From: "elizAbeth"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:31am

Subject: referencing (sort of) this situation amazingjettgrrrl@...

Send Email

 

I receive the HTML Goodies ( http://www.htmlgoodies.com )newsletter,

and last week I e-mailed Joe Burns a couple of links regarding all of

this as it was breaking. He briefly touches on it in this week's

newsletter:

 

"ID theft is becoming a big problem on the Web. In an attempt to put

an end to it all, Representative Ron Paul of Texas is suggesting

scrapping the entire Social Security number process over the next

five years. He would like for people to be given a new number that

would be kept secret by the government. Furthermore Paul would like a

new system whereas a person's Social Security number would not be

used as an identifier. It's a thought, but I'll bet that "number kept

secret by the government" statement will be the death of the idea."

---Joe Burns, Ph.D.

 

 

646 From:

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:36am

Subject: Re: referencing (sort of) this situation jrs@...

Send Email

 

Dang..... you beat me to it...

 

> I receive the HTML Goodies ( http://www.htmlgoodies.com )newsletter,

> and last week I e-mailed Joe Burns a couple of links regarding all of

> this as it was breaking. He briefly touches on it in this week's

> newsletter:

>

> "ID theft is becoming a big problem on the Web. In an attempt to put

> an end to it all, Representative Ron Paul of Texas is suggesting

> scrapping the entire Social Security number process over the next

> five years. He would like for people to be given a new number that

> would be kept secret by the government. Furthermore Paul would like a

> new system whereas a person's Social Security number would not be

> used as an identifier. It's a thought, but I'll bet that "number kept

> secret by the government" statement will be the death of the idea."

> ---Joe Burns, Ph.D.

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

 

 

647 From: "elizAbeth"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:20am

Subject: What kind of world... amazingjettgrrrl@...

Send Email

 

...do we live in when even Michael Stipe gets in on the act??

 

http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/05/25/esquire/index.html

 

*snicker*

 

 

648 From: "elizAbeth"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:21am

Subject: Re: What kind of world... amazingjettgrrrl@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "elizAbeth" wrote:

> ...do we live in when even Michael Stipe gets in on the act??

>

> http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/05/25/esquire/index.html

>

> *snicker*

 

BTW, I snagged that link from the last MeFi thread....don't think I

have seen it over here yet.

 

 

649 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:08am

Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

I feel lucky that I came across the site 2 days after "Kaycee" had

"died". I read some of the posts, and like any human, cried over

them. But then the Sunday after that, I found out that it was all a

hoax, and I felt that it was all just a book that I'd been reading and

that Kaycee was a character in a book. That's what she is right?

A character in a virtual book. I'm glad that I didn't bother to write

Debbie any sympathy email. That would have been a waste of

my time, considering all that she lost in this was people's faith in

her.

 

 

650 From: yahoo@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:44am

Subject: Still Curious About the Press yahoo@...

Send Email

 

I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful

night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,

mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and what

ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a press

stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this forum and

chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did they ever do

any reporting on this matter?

 

 

651 From: rebeccablood@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 3:50pm

Subject: ABCNews "Wired Women" story rebeccablood@...

 

commendably, they don't use a picture of julie at all; they use

another blonde model with her face blurred out. :)

 

rcb

 

 

653 From: "Skysage"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:28pm

Subject: Re: Follow the money... skysage5@...

Send Email

 

Don't lose sight of the fact that all those hits cost BWG major

bucks.

 

 

654 From: "Skysage"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:40pm

Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Kerri Shafer wrote:

> I'm curious...

>

> How did you finally find your son on the Internet?

>

> I'm so glad you were able to be reunited with him!

>

> Kerri

 

Thank you, Kerri,

 

It was surprisingly fast and easy. I was looking for a phone number

of a friend on Switchboard.com. I noticed they had a link to "missing

persons" so I checked it out. It was mostly filled with posts of

people looking up child hood friends and things of the like. So a

little lightbulb went off in my head. I went to the board for my

son's last known location which is also the area in which my ex's

family has lived for generations. I made a post including my son's

full bith name, date of birth, and that I have been searching for

him - with a few emotional details as well.

 

A few months later I got an email that stopped me in my

tracks. "Hello, Mom, this is your son, xxxxx.

 

After I stopped shaking I shot off an email to him. Then within

minutes I was struck with the thought that this may be a hoax. As we

are well aware, people do hurt people on line for whatever reason. I

wanted to be sure it was him. It was him. One of his friends had

seen my post on switchboard and told him about it.

 

I sent an email to Switchboard thanking them for bringing us

together. I was contacted by Kate Hedegus from switchboard and we

spoke via telephone and email as she followed this. Switchboard

wanted to use this for PR and said that they would like to reunite us

on the Today Show. My son was vehemently opposed to this and we

didn't take them up on it.

 

Sadly, I have yet to see my son in person.

 

 

655 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:56pm

Subject: Possible Swedish Coverage? saundra@...

Send Email

 

I'm not sure if this is a personal site or a magazine site (I'm not

even sure if it's Swedish, I'm just guessing) but it popped up in my

referrers:

 

http://www.tjejringen.com/nytt/

 

Saundra

 

 

656 From: b_cotten@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:02pm

Subject: THAT BITCH! b_cotten@...

Send Email

 

I feel wronged!

 

 

657 From: BeanSprouts@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 1:14pm

Subject: Re: THAT BITCH! BeanSprouts@...

Send Email

 

b_cotten@... writes...

 

<>

 

 

took you a while to get in touch with those deep-down angry feelings, eh?

 

 

658 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:00pm

Subject: Further Dispatches from Peabody saundra@...

Send Email

 

Rick Hattersley, from the Peabody Gazette, is running a follow-up

story on the whole matter; I'm not sure when it'll be online, though

it's apparently already in print. The URL is

http://www.peabodykansas.com - right now, just showing the article

from last week.

 

A stringer from the New York Times based out of Topeka visited the

Gazette, and Debbie yesterday, and they've both spoken with her.

Doesn't appear she skipped town. The last information I had about the

New York Times coverage is that the story would probably run tomorrow

(Thursday, May 31.)

 

And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not because

there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough crime

committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey now.

That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.

 

Saundra

 

 

659 From: "Skysage"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:08pm

Subject: Re: Further Dispatches from Peabody skysage5@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> Rick Hattersley, from the Peabody Gazette, is running a follow-up

> story on the whole matter; I'm not sure when it'll be online,

though

> it's apparently already in print. The URL is

> http://www.peabodykansas.com - right now, just showing the article

> from last week.

>

> A stringer from the New York Times based out of Topeka visited the

> Gazette, and Debbie yesterday, and they've both spoken with her.

> Doesn't appear she skipped town. The last information I had about

the

> New York Times coverage is that the story would probably run

tomorrow

> (Thursday, May 31.)

>

> And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not

because

> there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough

crime

> committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey

now.

> That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.

>

> Saundra

 

Geesh! If that's the requirement... how does one get others to give

them 19,999.99 and still be within the law? How did they come up with

that figure?

 

 

660 From: Adam Geitgey

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:35pm

Subject: Re: Re: Further Dispatches from Peabody adam@...

Send Email

 

On Wed, 30 May 2001 19:08:50 -0000

"Skysage" wrote:

 

> > And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not

> because

> > there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough

> crime

> > committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey

> now.

> > That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.

> >

> > Saundra

>

> Geesh! If that's the requirement... how does one get others to give

> them 19,999.99 and still be within the law? How did they come up with

> that figure?

 

I've heard from FBI agents I've talked to that it depends on what happened.

Some types of crimes tend to get more attention from them than others,

depending on the current circumstances. Also, you usually have to demonstrate

a large financial loss. From what I understand it is usually a lot more than

20k, especially for businesses and such.

 

Adam

 

 

661 From: Adam Geitgey

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:40pm

Subject: Re: Still Curious About the Press adam@...

Send Email

 

On Wed, 30 May 2001 06:17:12 -0000

yahoo@... wrote:

 

> I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful

> night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,

> mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and what

> ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a press

> stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this forum and

> chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did they ever do

> any reporting on this matter?

 

Aero was a reporter from Hong Kong. They published their story(s) and the

link has been mentioned many times in the previous threads. They mentioned my

FAQ's url in one of the articles and I got around 25,000 hits from just their

users (a lot by my small standards). Look way back, I think it was one of the

first stories published. This person appeared on chat right after matt's

phone call and had talked to matt I believe, but I can't promise it is the

same person who called him (IE, that first call).

 

Adam

 

 

662 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:34pm

Subject: RWC Activist Article Live saundra@...

Send Email

 

The article in the RWC Activist went live on their site today, and was

also published in print. Here's the URL:

 

http://rwcactivist.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=77891

 

Saundra

 

 

663 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:39pm

Subject: Re: ABCNews "Wired Women" story mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., rebeccablood@y... wrote:

> <http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/WiredWomen/wiredwomen.html>

 

>>They e-mailed her. They called the family home in Kansas and

carried on telephone conversations with the ailing teen.<<

 

This part of the story makes it sound like people called up Debbie

Swenson out of the blue. "Hey, is Kaycee the dying cancer girl home?

Tell her an Internet weirdo would like to talk to her."

 

 

664 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:42pm

Subject: Re: Still Curious About the Press saundra@...

Send Email

 

> On Wed, 30 May 2001 06:17:12 -0000

> yahoo@i... wrote:

>

> I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful

> night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,

> mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and

> what ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a

> press stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this

> forum and chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did

> they ever do any reporting on this matter?

 

I believe that Aero is the member of the press to whom mathowie spoke;

the phone number was the same as the one Aero gave me, though I never

had any reason to call him. He was pulled in as a pro tem stringer

because he was the only one who knew much about the Internet. I don't

believe he did any reporting of his own (as his name might suggest, he

works for a plane-aero news publication, and this is a bit out of

their realm of coverage.)

 

Aero disappeared about the same time everyone abandoned the Yahoo!

chat for IRC. He was working mostly as a "voice from the inside" to

let us know what was going on in the journalistic circles- when the

story was going to hit the Associated Press, how many papers and news

outlets were working on stories about it. His number was three, and so

far, it's hit MSNBC, The Guardian, and will hit The New York Times

likely tomorrow- seems he was all he said he was. :) He also suggested

that tabloid television magazines like Inside Edition may be

interested, but he wasn't certain and I know I haven't heard anything

about it.

 

Saundra

 

 

665 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:45pm

Subject: Swenson Won't Be Charged mail@...

 

Hattersley is a good reporter. I love how Swenson continues to

express deep contrition but hasn't made any attempts to reimburse

people or send gifts back.

 

 

666 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:46pm

Subject: Re: Follow the money... feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:

> Don't lose sight of the fact that all those hits cost BWG major

> bucks.

 

But if you host two tear-jerker sites on your domain for a year and

they keep getting more popular you eventually have to pony up for

more bandwidth anyway...

 

And then you get real famous overnite coz 'Debbie' lets the cat out

of the bag, but remember there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity in

the media, as clinton, hillary, jesse and al sharpton can tell you...

 

So how come you don't just jump on a Greyhound and 'surprise' your ex

and your son? It be worth to see the looks on their faces...

 

 

667 From: roel@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:58pm

Subject: Dutch media roel@...

Send Email

 

I don't think many of you on the forum understand Dutch, but:

 

http://www.nu.nl/document?n=32738

 

Most info is pretty accurate. But the author states that "Kaycee

Nicole bracht zelfs geld op, want je kon T-shirts en mokken kopen met

haar hoofd erop" [translates into: 'The Kaycee concept even made some

money, because it was possible to buy T-shirts and coffee cups with

her face on it.']

 

Roel

www.nonharmful.com

 

 

668 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:04pm

Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> http://www.peabodykansas.com/22swenson.html

>

> Hattersley is a good reporter. I love how Swenson continues to

> express deep contrition but hasn't made any attempts to reimburse

> people or send gifts back.

 

Judging from 'Debbie's' and 'KC's" taste in vintage 'music' it sounds

like she is from the 'like, whatever man' generation, hippies,

smoking dope, rioting, 'rippin' off the man, right on bro'

 

That was a time when only your own satisfaction counted, and if

someone else got hurt, well, 'like, whatever man' nome whut i'm

sayin...?

 

Besides, she can't send the gifts back, they have been 'given' to

the 'appropriate' families of the other 3 cancer victims who may or

may not exist.

 

Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your name

there at the top.

 

 

669 From: dori@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:40pm

Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged dori@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

 

> Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your

name

> there at the top.

 

DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as

DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.

 

Dori

http://www.backupbrain.com

 

 

670 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:51pm

Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dori@d... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

> > Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your

> name

> > there at the top.

>

> DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as

> DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.

 

The main address for my parody is Drudge.Com. What you see isn't

always what you get. Especially on the Internet

 

671 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:01pm

Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... listlessness@...

Send Email

 

Am I being silly, but Mefi still doesn't load from

http://www.metafilter.com/ even though it seems evident that people

are using. I know it should be quite slow from a DSL connect (god

bless Matt) but shouldn't be getting something. I'm on the other

side of the world, but I thought geography wasn't an issue.

 

 

672 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:03pm

Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... listlessness@...

Send Email

 

I'm feelinglistless by the way . . . hey everyone . . .

 

 

673 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:23pm

Subject: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow saundra@...

Send Email

 

Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be

published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section. It

was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a

"think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York

Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.

 

Saundra

 

 

674 From: dominique@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 11:06pm

Subject: Why no TV dominique@...

Send Email

 

All this print news coverage has been very interesting to read. I'd

like to thank Saundra for keeping us all so up-to-date. However,

what seems to be missing here is an actual photo of Debbie, "Visibly

upset as she stood at the doorstep of her ranch-style Peabody home,"

as stated in the Peabody Gazette. Too bad none of this has been

picked-up by television news cameras. I believe that many of us

could finally find closure by picturing a red-nosed Debbie with puffy

eyes, looking like she hadn't left her house or changed her clothing

in over a week.

 

Personally, I'd be satisfied if I were able to look her right in the

eyes.

 

 

675 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed May 30, 2001 11:27pm

Subject: Re: Why no TV saundra@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dominique@a... wrote:

> All this print news coverage has been very interesting to read. I'd

> like to thank Saundra for keeping us all so up-to-date.

 

Welcome. :) Happy to help.

 

However,

> what seems to be missing here is an actual photo of Debbie, "Visibly

> upset as she stood at the doorstep of her ranch-style Peabody home,"

> as stated in the Peabody Gazette. Too bad none of this has been

> picked-up by television news cameras. I believe that many of us

> could finally find closure by picturing a red-nosed Debbie with

puffy

> eyes, looking like she hadn't left her house or changed her clothing

> in over a week.

>

> Personally, I'd be satisfied if I were able to look her right in the

> eyes.

 

She was supposed to do a tv interview with Channel 12 Wichita, but she

cancelled, and did her interview only by phone. My guess is, she's

being as camera shy as possible right now, just so she can hopefully

walk down the street without being recognized. Merely speculation on

my part, though.

 

 

676 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 0:14am

Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dori@d... wrote:

> > --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

> > > Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your

> > name

> > > there at the top.

> >

> > DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as

> > DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.

>

> The main address for my parody is Drudge.Com. What you see isn't

> always what you get. Especially on the Internet

 

Neat. And I mean that sincerely. Loved that y'all were onto Drudge

the day the article about the "Weakest Link" woman came out, along

with some nature news.

 

 

677 From: "Skysage"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 0:54am

Subject: Re: Follow the money... skysage5@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

 

> But if you host two tear-jerker sites on your domain for a year and

> they keep getting more popular you eventually have to pony up for

> more bandwidth anyway...

>

> And then you get real famous overnite coz 'Debbie' lets the cat out

> of the bag, but remember there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity

in

> the media, as clinton, hillary, jesse and al sharpton can tell

you...

>

> So how come you don't just jump on a Greyhound and 'surprise' your

ex

> and your son? It be worth to see the looks on their faces...

 

Very true...

 

Easier said than done.

 

 

678 From: dhartung@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:58am

Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Stuart Ian Burns"

wrote:

> Am I being silly, but Mefi still doesn't load from

> http://www.metafilter.com/ even though it seems evident that

people

> are using. I know it should be quite slow from a DSL connect (god

> bless Matt) but shouldn't be getting something. I'm on the other

> side of the world, but I thought geography wasn't an issue.

 

First, your DNS probably wasn't updated. The IP address changed when

Matt moved it to his DSL, and some DNS server upstream wasn't

updating often enough.

 

Now, Metafilter is having the time of its life, drinking tiny little

bottles of scotch, goosing stews, and probably screwing a cute little

iBook in the bathroom, as it takes a cross-country plane trip to Noo

Yawk and the beneficent arms of Dr. Jason Levine, webmeister-legal-

eagle-medico-extraordinaire, a/k/a http://q.queso.com, who has

bandwidth to spare. All hail Q!

 

 

679 From: dhartung@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:59am

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be

> published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.

It

> was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a

> "think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York

> Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.

 

The first time I'm asked to be interviewed by the New York Times, and

I'm out of town.

 

Somebody fire my PR firm for me. I'll be boozing it up in the

executive bathroom.

 

 

680 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:51am

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow matt@...

Send Email

 

At 10:23 PM 5/30/2001 +0000, you wrote:

>Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be

>published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.

 

And here it is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/31/technology/31HOAX.html

 

Matt

 

 

681 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:10am

Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

> > Neat. And I mean that sincerely. Loved that y'all were onto

Drudge

> the day the article about the "Weakest Link" woman came out, along

> with some nature news.

 

What really creamed my thong was when Drudge got little Monica and

her stained dress into the public eye or is that mouth...?

 

Remember how many parents had to explain to their 8 years olds

what 'oral sex' was?

 

"Now, honey when you are the President or an intern, and old enough

to know better, then you can have oral sex in the Oval Orfice or

where ever you want..."

 

 

682 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:03am

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow bonni@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> > Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be

> > published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits

section.

> It

> > was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a

> > "think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York

> > Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.

>

> The first time I'm asked to be interviewed by the New York Times,

and

> I'm out of town.

 

Oh, I've been interviewed by the NYT. It wasn't a big deal. I was

part of a big website that was getting its official launch and NYT

interviewed me and ran a little sidebar article. No blood was shed.

;-)

 

bonni

http://bonni.net/

 

 

683 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:07am

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> At 10:23 PM 5/30/2001 +0000, you wrote:

> >Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be

> >published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.

>

> And here it is:

> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/31/technology/31HOAX.html

>

> Matt

 

This is among the best mainstream writeups I've seen so far. About

the only strange thing in it is the comment about "Scooby Doo's". I

do recall a couple of places where someone said "Scobby crew", but I

don't recall that the term was formally adopted. It is, however, fun

and not completely inappropriate (I wanna be Thelma).

 

But occasionally you see a new word get created, and I think we just

did. I have now seen, in this Yahoo forum, the word "scooby" used as

a verb, with meaning "to thoroughly investigate someone using web-

based resources". We'll see whether this goes into general use; it's

happened before. If so, you can tell your grandchildren "I was there".

 

 

684 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 2:54pm

Subject: A Prediction of Sorts saundra@...

Send Email

 

Excerpting the NYT article; the first statement after getting caught:

 

In her confession, Ms. Swenson said the Kaycee character had been a

composite of three people she knew who had died of cancer. "What I did

was wrong and I apologize for it," she wrote. "I regret any pain I

caused."

 

The latest statement since getting caught:

 

Nevertheless, Ms. Swenson said on Tuesday that she believed the Kaycee

character had been more helpful than harmful. "A lot of people have

problems," she said. "I know I helped a lot of people in a lot of

different ways."


 

She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's

wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting

woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in

another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely

teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this

time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,

exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand

new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative

anonymity of the Internet.

 

Just my eleven cents,

Saundra

 

 

685 From:

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:11am

Subject: Sites down jrs@...

Send Email

 

Hmm..

 

I don't know what the heck is going on, but something is screwed up with my

ISP. A few of my sites aren't showing up (www.logboy.com/jr/main.asp), and

the kaycee directory, mefi threads and all, is giving me a 403 error. I

will try and get it fixed as soon as possible so you can still see all the

info. I have no idea what is going on, since I have been at work all day.

If anyone has any comments, let me know.

 

J.R. Salzman

 

 

686 From: yahoo@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:06pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts yahoo@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

 

> She will do it again. That's my prediction.

 

I'm already seeing occasional visits again to my site from

Southwind.net, the small ISP in south-central Kansas always used by

Debbie before to access the Internet. Granted, it could be curiosity

seekers from that area, but I am certainly keeping my eye out.

 

 

687 From:

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:14pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts jrs@...

Send Email

 

> She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's

> wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting

> woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in

> another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely

> teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this

> time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,

> exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand

> new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative

> anonymity of the Internet.

 

 

I must admit that I agree with you on that one. I think that she is going to do it again unless she gets punished severely. Perhaps she should get the Kevin Mitnick treatment, and not be allowed near any computer technology ever again. It's obvious that she is capabale of doing it. Who knows..... next time she might actually start asking for money for her next "dying" victim.

 

 

 

 

 

688 From: kumquat@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:19pm

Subject: Re: A prediction of sorts kumquat@...

Send Email

 

Actually.. Southwind.net is one of the longest standing ISP's in southern and

western kansas.. (which is a big area and a quite a few ppl) I would scratch

it up to curiosity first.

 

my credibility comes from growing up around there..

-jeana

 

 

--*--*--*--*--

Pinch me!

I'm real!

--*--*--*--*--

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

 

>> She will do it again. That's my prediction.

 

>I'm already seeing occasional visits again to my site from

>Southwind.net, the small ISP in south-central Kansas always used by

>Debbie before to access the Internet. Granted, it could be curiosity

>seekers from that area, but I am certainly keeping my eye out.

 

 

689 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:51pm

Subject: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? mail@...

Send Email

 

I'm sending links to a Good Morning America reporter who contacted me

about the Kaycee hoax. The College Club pages used in the hoax are

gone. Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it

look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?

 

 

691 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:22pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts saundra@...

Send Email

 

Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it

again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without

getting arrested. Ugh.

 

Saundra

 

 

692 From: "Dominique"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:27pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts dominique@...

Send Email

 

And another thing, while I'm at it... Did anybody ever bother to check the TOS of her local ISP? Some actually have clauses against Internet fraud. If her's does, then at least her connection could get yanked for a while. I know she'll get another one eventually, but this will certainly slow her down a bit. I'm not advocating vigilantism in any way, but since the local police and the FBI decided not to pursue this matter any further, then perhaps it's up to the Internet community. Furthermore, if anyone out there is wondering how she may get her hands on another pretty girl's photos, I have 1 word for you: Yearbooks. I believe that libraries in the U.S. keep copies of past yearbooks. If I had my druthers, I'd make sure every library within a 100 mile radius of where Debbie lives, hide them for a while. Lastly, nobody ever talked to her husband about this. I mean what does he think of his wife's shenanigans? If he's got an ounce of common sense, perhaps he's stuffing the family's computer in the truck of his car right now as we speak.

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Dominique

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:53 AM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole A Prediction of Sorts

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more Saundra. That was my very 1st gut reaction when I read her last statement to the NYT after getting caught. On the one hand I figured maybe she just was trying to put a good face on it all for such an important publication. However, the problem with liars like her is the more they get caught up their lies, the more they believe themselves. So, I figure she'll be at it again. Perhaps not with Julie's photo, but with somebody else's. This woman is sick, and doesn't it.

 

 

 

 

Excerpting the NYT article; the first statement after getting caught:

 

In her confession, Ms. Swenson said the Kaycee character had been a

composite of three people she knew who had died of cancer. "What I did

was wrong and I apologize for it," she wrote. "I regret any pain I

caused."

 

The latest statement since getting caught:

 

Nevertheless, Ms. Swenson said on Tuesday that she believed the Kaycee

character had been more helpful than harmful. "A lot of people have

problems," she said. "I know I helped a lot of people in a lot of

different ways."


 

She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's

wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting

woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in

another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely

teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this

time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,

exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand

new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative

anonymity of the Internet.

 

Just my eleven cents,

Saundra

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

 

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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693 From: "Sara L. Olesen"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:32pm

Subject: More media coverage sara@...

Send Email

 

I just got word from the IT editor at http://www.politiken.dk (a major

danish newspaper) that the Kaycee/Debbie story ran in todays printed version

of the paper. Unfortunately I'm not able to get my hands on a copy of it to

see what they wrote (unless I want to pay $$$ to get a copy sent of just the

article) and I cannot find it in their online version. The editor also

mentioned that he was writing a book about the internet (don't know from

which point of view) and that he would use the Kaycee/Debbie case as an

example therein.

 

--

Sara - Censored, but not silenced.

http://crunchblogger.tripod.com

 

 

694 From: Peggy Butterworth

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:43pm

Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts pbutterw@...

Send Email

 

While I agree that Debbie will attempt this kind of deception again, I

don't think she's in it for the money. I think her motives are far more

twisted than mere greed. I think she's looking for some kind of

emotional fulfillment that's missing in her everyday life. I don't

think she made up that stuff about Kaycee's 'dad' out of the blue. Its

too bad that she's getting away with the whole thing, because I think

she's in dire need of some therapy.

Peggy

 

saundra@... wrote:

 

> Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it

> again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without

> getting arrested. Ugh.

>

> Saundra

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

>

 

 

695 From: "Jeana Clark"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:53pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts jmclark@...

Send Email

 

That made me think for a moment... a person could get away w/stealing $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe I should start stealing.

 

blah.

 

the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police. The FBI has decided to ignore the property theft of the case.. but no one can bring charges against the emotional rape and theft that was done... I'm not even sure if the SRS can get involved to check on the well-being of her children.....

 

...

-----Original Message-----

From: saundra@anywherebeyond.com [mailto:saundra@anywherebeyond.com]

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:22 AM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: A Prediction of Sorts

 

 

 

Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it

again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without

getting arrested. Ugh.

 

Saundra

 

 

 

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

696 From: "rebecca blood"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:01pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts rebeccablood@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jeana Clark" wrote:

> That made me think for a moment... a person could get away

w/stealing

> $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe

I should

> start stealing.

 

honestly, if you stole $19,999 the fbi would be after you. that

figure is just a general rule of thumb, surely, an amount that

someone would have to approach in order to be worth their while.

 

rcb

 

 

697 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:04pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts angelwng@...

Send Email

 

I agree, Peggy -

 

My guess would be that the cards and little presents were more about

expressions of love to her, and if I were a betting woman, I'd bet

that she used any money to re-gift presents to others.

 

I agree with Saudra, too. Debbie has learn a lot from this

experience, unfortunately, she's learned how to create and maintain a

hoax better. Her quote in the NYT's article says it all that she

thinks what she did was more positive than harmful.

 

It will take time to develop and cultivate the backstory for her next

alter-ego, but it's just a matter of time.

 

On a lighter note, it would be a hoot if "Scoopy (v) - to investigate

thoroughly using web based resources" caught on and was included in

the next slang dictionary!

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Peggy Butterworth wrote:

> While I agree that Debbie will attempt this kind of deception

again, I

> don't think she's in it for the money. I think her motives are far

more

> twisted than mere greed. I think she's looking for some kind of

> emotional fulfillment that's missing in her everyday life.

 

 

698 From: Ken Scott

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:36pm

Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts kscott-list@...

Send Email

 

Don’t forget that it was said that the FBI wouldn’t pursue a Federal case until it got near $20,000. I bet that if you stole $20,000 from local places that the city and state police would be more than happy to prosecute you and put you in jail.

 

Ken

 

 

on 5/31/01 10:53 am, Jeana Clark at jmclark@multiservice.com wrote:

 

 

That made me think for a moment... a person could get away w/stealing $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe I should start stealing.

 

blah.

 

the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police. The FBI has decided to ignore the property theft of the case.. but no one can bring charges against the emotional rape and theft that was done... I'm not even sure if the SRS can get involved to check on the well-being of her children.....

 

...

 

-----Original Message-----

From: saundra@anywherebeyond.com [mailto:saundra@anywherebeyond.com]

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:22 AM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: A Prediction of Sorts

 

 

Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it

again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without

getting arrested. Ugh.

 

Saundra

 

 

--

<>< Ken Scott ken@optikos.net http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

 

This is the day that the Lord has made;

Let us rejoice and be glad in it -- Psalm 118:24

 

 

 

 

699 From: "halcyon"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:35pm

Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? halcyon@...

Send Email

 

>Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it

> look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?

 

Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.

Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.

 

"Nick" called into my radio show and said he considered himself a

boyfriend of Kaycee at one time. He was a host at collegeclub.

 

-john

 

 

700 From: dominique@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:01pm

Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? dominique@...

Send Email

 

I tried to view that page for the 1st time yesterday and it still

existed, but my screen kept freezing up (which is very rare on this

puter.) Just goes to show that Debbie is still very much active, and

probably working feverishly in order to cover up her tracks.

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "halcyon" wrote:

> >Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it

> > look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?

>

> Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.

> Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.

>

> "Nick" called into my radio show and said he considered himself a

> boyfriend of Kaycee at one time. He was a host at collegeclub.

>

> -john

 

 

701 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:01pm

Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "halcyon" wrote:

> Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.

> Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.

 

It was my impression that Debbie Swenson set up the Tazwoman page to

make it look like Kaycee and "KuteOne" were dating in real life.

 

Do you think that she had cybersex with some of these College Club

members while pretending to be Kaycee? The media would have a field

day with that.

 

702 From: Adam Conover

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:11pm

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts... adam@...

Send Email

 

> the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police.

 

And thank GOD, is all I have to say. I can't think of anything worse.

 

(By the way folks -- how you doing? I finally decided to join, if any of you remember me

-- tweebiscuit, from the MeFi threads. *sigh* Finals got ahead of me for awhile there...)

 

- adam

 

 

703 From: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:39pm

Subject: New poll for kaycee-nicole kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Send Email

 

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

kaycee-nicole group:

 

What sort of punishment do you think

Debbie deserves, if any?

 

o Imprisonment / Other legal action

o Psychiatric help

o Tar and Feathers

o None

 

 

To vote, please visit the following web page:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/polls

 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are

not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups

web site listed above.

 

Thanks!

 

 

704 From: kindall@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 8:23pm

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow kindall@...

Send Email

 

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer also ran the NYT piece today, on

the front page no less (although below the fold).

 

All the "Mr."s and "Ms."s were removed, which I found amusing.

 

 

705 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:22pm

Subject: BBC Coverage Tonight saundra@...

Send Email

 

Just got a note from Rick Hattersley at the Peabody Gazette- he's

going to be interviewed at 8.36 his time (which is, I believe, CST) by

the BBC- he's not sure if it's BBC London, BBC Radio, or BBC America,

but the show begins before 8.36, so there's some time to figure it out

between now and then.

 

Saundra

 

 

706 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:29pm

Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kindall@m... wrote:

> The Seattle Post-Intelligencer also ran the NYT piece today, on

> the front page no less (although below the fold).

>

> All the "Mr."s and "Ms."s were removed, which I found amusing.

 

The New York Times once printed Meat Loaf's name -- repeatedly --

within an article as "Mr. Loaf." I am not kidding.

 

 

707 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:52pm

Subject: Who are the people in the pictures? feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

Has anyone found who these people are, and do they know their

pictures are appearing on a hoax site?

 

http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html

 

i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still around?

 

"kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on her guest book at

the above link... =8^-)

 

 

708 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:53pm

Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> I'm sending links to a Good Morning America reporter who contacted

me

> about the Kaycee hoax. The College Club pages used in the hoax are

> gone. Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make

it

> look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?

 

this is still up: http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html

 

 

709 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:09pm

Subject: Re: BBC Coverage Tonight saundra@...

Send Email

 

He'll be speaking to someone named Andy Gallagher if that helps jog

anyone's memories.

 

Saundra

 

 

>

> Just got a note from Rick Hattersley at the Peabody Gazette- he's

> going to be interviewed at 8.36 his time (which is, I believe, CST)

by

> the BBC- he's not sure if it's BBC London, BBC Radio, or BBC

America,

> but the show begins before 8.36, so there's some time to figure it

out

> between now and then.

>

> Saundra

 

 

710 From: "halcyon"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:42pm

Subject: Re: Who are the people in the pictures? halcyon@...

Send Email

 

I'm there, and I've talked to 5 of those people since "the truth."

 

-john

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:

> Has anyone found who these people are, and do they know their

> pictures are appearing on a hoax site?

>

> http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html

>

> i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still around?

>

> "kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on her guest book

at

> the above link... =8^-)

 

 

711 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:56pm

Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:

>

> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

> kaycee-nicole group:

>

> What sort of punishment do you think

> Debbie deserves, if any?

>

> o Imprisonment / Other legal action

> o Psychiatric help

> o Tar and Feathers

> o None

>

>

> To vote, please visit the following web page:

>

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XXXXXXXX

>

> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are

> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups

> web site listed above.

>

> Thanks!

 

I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to

ignore it.

 

 

712 From: Adam Conover

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:57am

Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole adam@...

Send Email

 

On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:

 

> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to

> ignore it.

 

Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone

actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or

unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric

help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll

remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the

line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since

this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I

really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it

was inappropriate, I'll take it down.

 

Sorry, folks!

 

- adam

 

 

i blog at:

713 From: "Dominique"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:29am

Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole dominique@...

Send Email

 

No, no, I don’t think the poll should be taken down at all. In fact, I believe it may help bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. We may not all agree, but opinions do matter and your poll may help those still on the thresholds make up their minds. Also, as far as I know tar and feathers haven’t been used in a least a century *smirk*. It was my understanding that the statement was to me taken figuratively, nothing more.

 

Sheesh, and I thought that I was the oversensitive one...

----- Original Message -----

From: Adam Conover

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:57 PM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole

 

 

 

On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@san.rr.com muttered into a little tape recorder:

 

> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to

> ignore it.

 

Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone

actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or

unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric

help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll

remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the

line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since

this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I

really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it

was inappropriate, I'll take it down.

 

Sorry, folks!

 

- adam

 

 

i blog at:

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

714 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:30am

Subject: Who appointed you chief censor? feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:

> >

> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

> > kaycee-nicole group:

> >

> > What sort of punishment do you think

> > Debbie deserves, if any?

> >

> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action

> > o Psychiatric help

> > o Tar and Feathers

> > o None

> >

> >

> > >

> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone

to

> ignore it.

 

You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to

ignore you...

 

 

715 From: s h a u n a

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:34am

Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts... goldengateblonde@...

Send Email

 

> the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police.

 

no, but we *do* have moral court ...

 

http://www.moralcourttv.com

 

"MORAL COURT is an exciting new television show that's different from any

other program on the air. MORAL COURT isn't a court of law, but a court of

ethics. It's where the accused faces the accuser before our Moral Judge,

Larry Elder. And whoever is judged right can be awarded up to $2,000! On

MORAL COURT, it pays to be right!"

 

one of you directly affected by this whole debacle might want to take

debbie there!

 

 

716 From: "Sara"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:56am

Subject: people magazine? sarapture@...

Send Email

 

has anyone contacted people mag about the whole kaycee debacle? seems

like this would be right up their alley....

 

 

717 From: Tamia@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:40am

Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...

Send Email

 

"Tar and Feather" is not a term that a 19 year old would be familiar

with....

But Debbie knows what it means.It was done to humiliate.She deserves

nothing less.If for no other reason than the fact that she is still

lying and trying to get sympathy.

When she was writing to tear and rip the hearts out of her

readers,how again was she helping you? I see nothing more than

munipulation...hers.

What a frumpy bitch.

 

 

718 From: Tamia@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:51am

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts Tamia@...

Send Email

 

Yes,she will do it again.And she no doubt did it on a smaller scale

before.

You know what's sick? Those of you who are enjoying your 15 minutes

of fame.

 

 

719 From: Debra Edwards

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:07am

Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...

Send Email

 

Perhaps you need counseling?

It's not a bad thing for people to let their feelings out.I laughed at the Tar and Feather remark.Only Debbie won't laugh at it,isn't that the point?

'LOL'Lighten up.

--- Adam Conover

> wrote:

>

>On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:

>

>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to

>> ignore it.

>

>Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone

>actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or

>unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric

>help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll

>remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the

>line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since

>this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I

>really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it

>was inappropriate, I'll take it down.

>

>Sorry, folks!

>

>- adam

>

>

>i blog at:

> http://www.tweebiscuit.net

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

_________________________________________________________

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State

Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!

 

 

720 From: Debra Edwards

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:10am

Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? Tamia@...

Send Email

 

Is that you Debbie/Kaycee?

 

--- feliksbigiron@...

> wrote:

>--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

>> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:

>> >

>> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

>> > kaycee-nicole group:

>> >

>> > What sort of punishment do you think

>> > Debbie deserves, if any?

>> >

>> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action

>> > o Psychiatric help

>> > o Tar and Feathers

>> > o None

>> >

>> >

>> > >

>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone

>to

>> ignore it.

>

>You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to

>ignore you...

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

_________________________________________________________

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State

Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!

 

 

721 From: Debra Edwards

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:17am

Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...

Send Email

 

Yikes! Sorry Adam,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.

Tamia/Debra

 

--- Adam Conover

> wrote:

>

>On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:

>

>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to

>> ignore it.

>

>Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone

>actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or

>unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric

>help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll

>remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the

>line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since

>this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I

>really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it

>was inappropriate, I'll take it down.

>

>Sorry, folks!

>

>- adam

>

>

>i blog at:

> http://www.tweebiscuit.net

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

_________________________________________________________

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State

Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!

 

 

722 From: Debra Edwards

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:19am

Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? Tamia@...

Send Email

 

Er...Yikes! Sorry,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.

Tamia/Debra

(I'm trying to laugh)

 

--- feliksbigiron@...

> wrote:

>--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

>> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:

>> >

>> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

>> > kaycee-nicole group:

>> >

>> > What sort of punishment do you think

>> > Debbie deserves, if any?

>> >

>> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action

>> > o Psychiatric help

>> > o Tar and Feathers

>> > o None

>> >

>> >

>> > >

>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone

>to

>> ignore it.

>

>You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to

>ignore you...

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

_________________________________________________________

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State

Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!

 

 

723 From: Ryan Kawailani Ozawa

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:37am

Subject: Kaycee made the wire... ozawa@...

Send Email

 

FBI Will Not Pursue Internet Hoax (Associated Press)

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010531/tc/internet_hoax_1.html

 

"WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - The FBI said Thursday it will not further

investigate an Internet hoax in which a 40-year-old woman invented a young

woman, began an online diary of her battle with leukemia and then killed

her off..."

 

 

724 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:38am

Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Debra Edwards wrote:

> Er...Yikes! Sorry,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message

forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please

ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.

> Tamia/Debra

> (I'm trying to laugh)

 

I may be a lot of things, but 'Debbie' is not any of them...

>

> --- feliksbigiron@y...

> > wrote:

> >--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

> >> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

> >> > kaycee-nicole group:

> >> >

> >> > What sort of punishment do you think

> >> > Debbie deserves, if any?

> >> >

> >> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action

> >> > o Psychiatric help

> >> > o Tar and Feathers

> >> > o None

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge

everyone

> >to

> >> ignore it.

> >

> >You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to

> >ignore you...

> >

> >

> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> >kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@y...

> >

> >

> >

> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

> _________________________________________________________

> http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of

Ohio State

> Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at -->

http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!

 

 

725 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:55am

Subject: My Little Findings... sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

Any one else notice that Debbie's All Star site at College Club is

gone? Also, the pictures of Julie are gone off of "Kutebabe"'s site

too. I posted a little message to Debbie the other day in the All

Star guest book that Julie could sue her for posting her pics as

someone else. I'm not sure if I was right or not, but the pics are

gone. However, the geocities ones are still up. Also, Kutebabe

and Debbie both logged into College Club today, but didn't take

any ims. I heard that "living colours" is up again at blogspot.com,

but I'm not sure.

 

Bonnie

 

 

726 From: Ian Thompson

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:06am

Subject: Re: My Little Findings... disarray@...

Send Email

 

On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bonnie wrote:

 

>I heard that "living colours" is up again at blogspot.com, but I'm not sure.

 

from <http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>:

 

> Sunday, May 27, 2001

>

> Right now I'm just publishing this to have it up. I am not interested

> in talking to anyone at this point. You have all been weird. I'll be

> back in a week or so to talk about the past 2 weeks.

>

> posted by i am the warrior at 11:32 AM

 

Hrm... to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, to say the least.

 

--ian thompson

 

 

727 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:19am

Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was

looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a rest?

Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?

 

Bonnie

 

 

728 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:23am

Subject: (No subject) raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:

> Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was

> looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a rest?

> Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?

>

> Bonnie

 

Is that a typical blogspot design? I've noticed it before, first

during the kaycee krisis, as it were, itself.

 

 

729 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:27am

Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Ray Mikell" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:

> > Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was

> > looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a

rest?

> > Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?

> >

> > Bonnie

>

> Is that a typical blogspot design? I've noticed it before, first

> during the kaycee krisis, as it were, itself.

 

I think that it's one that you can pick on blogger. It looked like

Debbie had some more imaginary friends on there, but that

other post is gone now.

 

Bonnie

 

 

730 From: "Kristin"

Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:19pm

Subject: Re: people magazine? tokristin@...

Send Email

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Sara"

 

 

> has anyone contacted people mag about the whole kaycee debacle? seems

> like this would be right up their alley....

 

 

Why give Debbie a national forum at all? Keep in mind, those of you that are

contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that you are

giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of attention,

which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in the first

place. Don't give her what she wants.

 

As more and more news outlets report this story, other news outlets who are

considering covering it are going to be looking for new angles, and since it

has been reported that Debbie will not be charged with any legal wrongdoing,

she can be confidant that whatever she chooses to say will not be a problem

down the road, which means that she could very easily spin herself as the

innocent victim of a bunch of online thugs. She has nothing to lose by

changing her story at this point, and we are all already aware that she is

an accomplished and inspired liar, who certainly has the skills to garner

sympathy - and as other people have already pointed out, she now has to live

in a very small town after all the national and local press about this hoax,

which will likely be punishment enough.

 

Just some things to think about, before you start sending off the emails to

more news and magazine outlets.

 

 

Kristin Thomas

 

 

http://www.sperare.com

 

 

731 From: Tamia@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:35am

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts Tamia@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's

> wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a

betting

> woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in

> another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely

> teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer

this

> time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be

there,

> exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of

brand

> new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative

> anonymity of the Internet.

>

> Just my eleven cents,

> Saundra

***

Saundra,I honestly believe that she has possibly pulled a similar,but

smaller scam off before.It irks me to no end (in polite language)

that she is still pulling off her scam.How can anyone believe that

this manipulative bitch ever had good intentions?

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

732 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 4:15am

Subject: "Debbie" we should be thanking... feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

for allowing us to waste hundreds of hours blubbering about the

wonderful brave cute blonde athlete who is dying, no wait, she just

got better, oh no, she needs another transplant, oh look she wrote

another wonderful poem, darn she is back in the hospital again...

 

then we can spend hundreds of more hours discussing what a bitch she

is, and how she has to live in a very small kansas town where i doubt

1 person in all 239 living there has ever heard of the internet let

alone "KC nicole" and barfing all your emotions out on your vanity

site weblog...

 

but wait, maybe 'debbie' is trying to teach us a lesson there is more

to life than worshipping fake people on the internet, ...naaaaah!

 

 

733 From: goody_mydear@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 5:26am

Subject: Re: people magazine? goody_mydear@...

Send Email

 

My response is below the copied paragraph.

 

<that are

contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that

you are

giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of

attention,

which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in

the first

place. Don't give her what she wants.>>

 

I agree. In fact, when I was relating this entire horrid story to my

husband last week, at the end of my rant he paused, looked at me and

said, "Don't be surprised when she turns up on Jerry Springer."

 

Now, of course, I absolutely do not watch Jerry Springer. I despise

that kind of show. So, if she does manage to actually extend her 15

minutes of fame into *that* arena, I will be very, very disappointed.

To use an overused phrase, her appearing on that show would be wrong

on so many levels. Yes, it would bring attention to what she did, but

unless someone from "our side" were to appear with her (unlikely), it

would be just HER side of the story. We can only imagine how she

would weave that version of her story. Do you think she would be

capable of eliciting sympathy from the audience? ::shudder::

 

In my opinion, she has some extremely serious emotional issues that

need to be professionally addressed. However, given her most recent

statement in the NY Times article, she considers herself to be a

quasi therapist, capable of dispensing help ::cough:: to those in

need. Please.

 

It is a shame that she doesn't, or possibly, can't grasp the nature

of what she has done.

 

Whoever stated (sorry, can't remember) that she'll pull this kind of

stunt again is, unfortunately, probably correct.

 

Having said that, perhaps we shouldn't continue feeding her illness.

I'd hate to hear via this forum that she's the next scheduled guest

on the esteemed Springer show. Ack.

 

My .02,

 

Goody

 

 

734 From: "Tim L. Walker"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 5:26am

Subject: Re: Who are the people in the pictures? thebassperson@...

Send Email

 

These people are 'friends' of Kaycees from

CollegeClub.com - former or current student hosts from

that site. I'm sure they're all aware their picture

is there.

 

 

--- feliksbigiron@... wrote:

> Has anyone found who these people are, and do they

> know their

> pictures are appearing on a hoax site?

>

> http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html

>

> i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still

> around?

>

> "kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on

> her guest book at

> the above link... =8^-)

>

>

>

>

 

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35

a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

 

 

735 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 10:59am

Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone

> to ignore it.

 

There's nothing in the poll that hasn't already been discussed here

and elsewhere, including speculation about the woman's mental health.

 

 

736 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:02am

Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Tamia@o... wrote:

> You know what's sick? Those of you who are enjoying your 15 minutes

> of fame.

 

Should people here be ashamed they uncovered Debbie's hoax?

 

 

737 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:12am

Subject: Re: people magazine? mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Kristin" wrote:

> Why give Debbie a national forum at all? Keep in mind, those of you

that are

> contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that

you are

> giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of

attention,

> which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in

the first

> place. Don't give her what she wants.

 

She changed her phone number and has refused to do on-camera

interviews. I don't think she wants to be the subject of

international media coverage like this. If she was a media whore,

we'd be seeing her face all over the place.

 

Contacting the media (or avoiding them) isn't going to make a bit of

difference at this point, because the story's already out there in so

many places. That New York Times story ran on the front page of the D

section yesterday.

 

 

738 From: "Alastair Alexander"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:20am

Subject: Re: Re: people magazine? group@...

Send Email

 

It's in the UK papers this morning (slow? us?), and got some coverage in

The Register:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19353.html

 

It was NTK ('Need To Know') that broke the story over here last week -

http://www.ntk.net/

 

Pretty sympathetic coverage all told.

 

Al

 

This message was sent by Easymail - http://www.easynet.co.uk/

 

 

739 From: dominique@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:07pm

Subject: So what now. dominique@...

Send Email

 

Becoming a member of this newsgroup has been an absolute revelation

to me. For one thing I had no idea that there were such gems hiding

among so many of those vanity blogs that I grew to hate, then

disregard over a year ago. I'd like to say that I've become

one of the converted, and will remain a fan of many of you long after

this affair is over.

 

Now on with what I really wanted to say, which is twofold. What

Kristin wrote made a lot of sense as usual, and judging from this

morning's article in the UK Register, she's probably on the

right tract. It bothers me that the writer chose to put such a

positive spin on Debbie's motives, because I believe that it will feed

right into what she's probably convinced herself of already.

Furthermore, it seems to almost promote "role playing" or the

invention ofalter egos, as O.K. as long as your motives are good. It

says and I quote: "it united people in concern for another, and

inspiredthem to exhibit some of the finest of human inclinations."

 

However, the end doesn't always justify the means. When I read a

novel, I'm perfectly aware that the characters, although probably

based on the writer's general experiences, are nonetheless invented.

Let's not forget that biographies andfiction are two separate

things. If I can be moved to tears or even to grieve for a

fictitious character, then at least I know in my heart that the

person wasn't real and I can move on with my life after I finish the

book. However, real grief for a person that actually existed is an

entirely different matter. This kind of pain can last for years and

years. If Debbie hadn't been exposed as the fraud and a compulsive

liar that she is, many good and inspired people would have gone on to

hurt for a long time to come. Not to mention those real sufferers of

terminal diseases who were just as deserving of all the attention

given to Kaycee Nicole, but were robbed of it somehow.

 

If Debbie is allowed to "hide" her real motives behind a façade of

some sort of "angel in disguise", then who is to say that the next

person we extend our love to isn't lying to us as well. All I'm

saying is, if I'm going to feel any kind of sympathy or concern

for someone in the future, I want to know that the person is real,

and not the product of a manipulative and twisted housewife in dyer

need of psychiatric help. Which brings me to my final point. In the

latest poll I voted that Debbie be legally forced to face up to her

actions. Otherwise, there is no doubt in my mind that she will never

admit any wrongdoing and/or receive the professional help she needs.

Nor will she be made an example of in order to force future

perpetrators of hoaxes to think twice before they create a fake

persona in order to satisfy their own sick needs for attention. I

realize that there is probably no law that exists today which would

force her to get help, but if there was ever call to create a

precedent, I think this is a shining example of one now. Otherwise,

all the detective work and subsequent discussions will have been in

vain.

 

 

740 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:58pm

Subject: My thoughts.... truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

While I do find it suprising that Debbie will not face criminal

charges in this matter...it saddens me even in the midst she is

trying to find 'good' in all of this..yes 'Kaycee' spread her

sunshine and touched the lives of many of us but the harsh reality is

is that in the entire process she has lived such a lie....i have been

stunned to read that she states that she is this and that but the

fact of the matter is she hasn't been real and who knows with her

current state if she could ever be...

 

In regards to the pictures that are currently on the pages at college

club...as tim mentioned they are pictures of current and former

student host and leaders who at one time played a role in the host

program on the site....many do have knowledge that the pictures are

on the site and are aware of the recent events....also there are

photos in the gallery which people are aware of as well as those

photos are public (link is in the bookmark section). Mine is one of

those in the gallery......

 

i am concerned that considering the fact that she will not be charged

in this matter that there is that open door for her to do this

again...it seems that she doesn't understand what she has done has

not only hurt me and so many others deeply and she just wants to keep

going forward...this woman is sadly disturbed and confused.....e

 

my prayer is that if she does get professional help if not for

herself but for the sake of the family because i have no doubt that

they are extremely embarassed by the current events....debbie may

have thought she was doing something by going in this hoax but debbie

has sadly made her bed....

 

now she must lie in it....

 

although she won't answer to the law she will answer to GOD for her

actions in this...

 

i am working on the forgiveness portion in the matter but that is

going to take some time still....I getting to find closure....

 

I am getting there....

 

 

741 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:20pm

Subject: Re: My thoughts.... bonni@...

Send Email

 

You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in more

than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic of

gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.

When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their

hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying teenager

and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,

conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.

 

A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's going

to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small

town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.

 

This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody. They

love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it (I

understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or

something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a lot

to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories

about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with other

people's pictures and all this international media attention is

suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot of

folks are going to rightfully resent that.

 

Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have a "poor

me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.

Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought

about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was

exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught

telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she didn't

expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people, not

so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe

she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I hope

SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.

 

I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter, who

was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry

what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have a

fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she so

clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or

might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.

 

Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.

Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no

one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper

was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody

read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't going

to think very highly of her from now on.

 

bonni

http://bonni.net/

 

 

742 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:48pm

Subject: Re: My thoughts.... truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

Bonni,

 

That is very true and I appreciate your additional thoughts in this

matter...

 

small towns do remember and i have no doubt that the town will not

think highly of her after this...it will be very hard for her to

regain the trust of people...you're right she will have to walk down

the street and endure the whispers, comments, and thoughts of her

fellow townspeople after this....she will not be able to hold her

head up as she hears "that's the woman who commited the Kaycee

hoax".....she will be shamed without a doubt for a very long

time....her story will be a tale in that town for years to come...

 

also i do feel bad for her children as well as i think about because

they will now have to deal with the harsh torment from their peers...

 

"look aren't you that kid with the momma who did the kaycee

hoax...haha!!"

 

Young ones can be harsh and i think that this will definately hurt

them in buliding relationships...if Debbie ain't real then they

assumes the kids aren't too....I especially feel for kelli....i know

that she has to be deeply hurt with the fact that her own mother

continued this hoax and went too far...on top of that she put julie

on a pedestal using her pictures for the foundation of her

lies....think of julie...she is the all american girl...pretty,hs

valedictorian, top basketball star, revered by many, envy of

others...to me i think julie was the daughter that debbie always

wanted but could never have....julie had all the qualities that she

wanted in a child and somehow kelli didn't live up to all those

qualities so she looked to julie...i wonder how their relationship

will be after all of this...

 

you know i wouldn't be suprised if her husband walks on her after all

of this.....i know that his collegues may have a few things to say as

well from all of this...

 

Just my additional two cents in regards to your response. ;)

 

Kanika

 

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonni Elizabeth Hall" wrote:

> You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in

more

> than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic

of

> gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.

> When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their

> hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying

teenager

> and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,

> conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.

>

> A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's

going

> to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small

> town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.

>

> This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody.

They

> love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it

(I

> understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or

> something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a

lot

> to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories

> about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with

other

> people's pictures and all this international media attention is

> suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot

of

> folks are going to rightfully resent that.

>

> Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have

a "poor

> me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.

> Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought

> about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was

> exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught

> telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she

didn't

> expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people,

not

> so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe

> she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I

hope

> SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.

>

> I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter,

who

> was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry

> what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have

a

> fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she

so

> clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or

> might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.

>

> Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.

> Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no

> one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper

> was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody

> read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't

going

> to think very highly of her from now on.

>

> bonni

> http://bonni.net/

 

 

743 From: "Dominique"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 4:27pm

Subject: Re: Re: My thoughts.... dominique@...

Send Email

 

First let me say that I’m sorry that you were deceived by this Kanika. If I had any advice to give, then I’d keep reminding you that you have a good and kind soul. Although many will try to take advantage of that in this life, most will benefit from it too, and those are the ones that truly matter.

As far as Debbie’s family is concerned, I also feel concern for their welfare. The husband may suffer professionally because of this, and that’s bad enough for the rest of the family. However, the little daughter is the one that worries me the most. She seems to be the one who started this whole thing as a way to meet boys. I remember seeing a photo of her, and I’m sure we can understand that as a chubby adolescent, she probably didn’t even know that what she was doing was so wrong. But when the mother took over, she reinforced all of her anxieties about not being good enough, or pretty enough, or worthy of the same kind of love. That scares me… the things she’s taught and is still teaching that poor child.

 

Again, if Debbie isn’t legally forced to face her actions and seek therapy, then the real daughter may never get the chance to learn how to believe in herself. If I had any power in this matter, my recommendations would be as follows:

 

1. Debbie should immediately undergo psychiatric treatment and report to a judge on a weekly basis with proof of such meetings. The daughter should go as well, but separately and not viewed as punishment. And;

 

2. Debbie should also be ordered to work as volunteer in some sort of hospice for aids victims. Perhaps then she’d get a REAL clue about what death really means. Not the romantic overly sentimental ideals of a golden heroin, but the misery and the true fear of those who are facing it. It’s not all the clichéd white picket fences, windblown oak trees, and sunshine, baby…

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: truesolace00@earthlink.net

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:48 AM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: My thoughts....

 

 

Bonni,

 

That is very true and I appreciate your additional thoughts in this

matter...

 

small towns do remember and i have no doubt that the town will not

think highly of her after this...it will be very hard for her to

regain the trust of people...you're right she will have to walk down

the street and endure the whispers, comments, and thoughts of her

fellow townspeople after this....she will not be able to hold her

head up as she hears "that's the woman who commited the Kaycee

hoax".....she will be shamed without a doubt for a very long

time....her story will be a tale in that town for years to come...

 

also i do feel bad for her children as well as i think about because

they will now have to deal with the harsh torment from their peers...

 

"look aren't you that kid with the momma who did the kaycee

hoax...haha!!"

 

Young ones can be harsh and i think that this will definately hurt

them in buliding relationships...if Debbie ain't real then they

assumes the kids aren't too....I especially feel for kelli....i know

that she has to be deeply hurt with the fact that her own mother

continued this hoax and went too far...on top of that she put julie

on a pedestal using her pictures for the foundation of her

lies....think of julie...she is the all american girl...pretty,hs

valedictorian, top basketball star, revered by many, envy of

others...to me i think julie was the daughter that debbie always

wanted but could never have....julie had all the qualities that she

wanted in a child and somehow kelli didn't live up to all those

qualities so she looked to julie...i wonder how their relationship

will be after all of this...

 

you know i wouldn't be suprised if her husband walks on her after all

of this.....i know that his collegues may have a few things to say as

well from all of this...

 

Just my additional two cents in regards to your response. ;)

 

Kanika

 

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonni Elizabeth Hall" wrote:

> You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in

more

> than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic

of

> gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.

> When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their

> hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying

teenager

> and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,

> conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.

>

> A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's

going

> to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small

> town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.

>

> This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody.

They

> love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it

(I

> understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or

> something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a

lot

> to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories

> about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with

other

> people's pictures and all this international media attention is

> suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot

of

> folks are going to rightfully resent that.

>

> Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have

a "poor

> me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.

> Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought

> about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was

> exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught

> telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she

didn't

> expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people,

not

> so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe

> she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I

hope

> SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.

>

> I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter,

who

> was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry

> what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have

a

> fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she

so

> clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or

> might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.

>

> Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.

> Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no

> one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper

> was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody

> read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't

going

> to think very highly of her from now on.

>

> bonni

> http://bonni.net/

 

 

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744 From: saundra@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 6:09pm

Subject: AP Story picked up by Salon saundra@...

Send Email

 

This may be the extent of their coverage- they're running the AP story

that's going the rounds today on the front page.

 

http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/06/01/kaycee/index.html if you

haven't already read it.

 

Saundra

 

 

745 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 7:40pm

Subject: Traces sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

Just one thing-- how did you guys get those postings traced? Did

you have to pay to do it? Email me on this, if you don't want to

post it here: comettailfire@...

 

Bonnie

 

 

746 From: dhartung@...

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 9:39pm

Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> This may be the extent of their coverage- they're running the

> AP story that's going the rounds today on the front page.

>

> http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/06/01/kaycee/index.html if you

> haven't already read it.

 

Pretty ironic, considering I've said several times that Salon was the

*only* place I really expected to see coverage. (I think they've laid

off the people like Janelle Brown who would have been assigned to the

story, though.)

 

On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges weren't

warranted. Some of the stories told were pretty over-the-top compared

to what seems to have been the case. Some people got burned, but

their gifts were freely given, and in the end it's just the same as

the guy with the "broken-down" car on the highway who scammed me out

of $40 ... and while I was digging for my tools, promptly drove off

in a screech of gravel. Damnit. Won't stop me from stopping to help

people in the future, though; I'll just be more careful who I open my

wallet for.

 

Does Debbie need mental help? Possibly, though I think maybe some

here are being too judgemental and rushing to the defense of her

daughter, one person whose thoughts we really haven't heard. Debbie

may be a "little" dysfunctional as far as interpersonal relationships

go, but that's no justification for meddling in her family affairs. I

think we all know people who are just as ... discordian in their

dealings with others.

 

Maybe she'll try to redeem herself

<http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>. Maybe she'll find readers for

her treacly Karen-Carpenter positivism. I can't presume to speak for

anyone who thought they were Kaycee's friend, but it seems to me that

forgiveness is gonna be a long way off.

 

 

747 From: "Cheryl Eve"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:40pm

Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon angelwng@...

Send Email

 

However, if I were Randall Van der Woning, I would be mailing Debbie

an invoice for the design, bandwidth, hosting, and long distance

phone bills - in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest bite

taken.

 

> ...

> On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges

weren't

> warranted. ...

 

 

748 From: "Dominique"

Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:59pm

Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon dominique@...

Send Email

 

Yup, yup, yup! To quote John Cage in the Ally McBeal TV show: "I'm perturbed. Let's all take a moment...

< in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest bite

taken.

 

> ...

> On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges

weren't

> warranted. ...

 

 

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749 From: "Tim L. Walker"

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 0:24am

Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon thebassperson@...

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Hey everyone,

 

I'm just writing in response to the comment below:

 

<were Kaycee's friend, but it seems to me that

forgiveness is gonna be a long way off.>>

 

I _was_ one of Kaycee's friends. I talked on the

phone to 'her' several times. I sent her cards, and

even had a baseball cap _made_ for her, specially

inscribed. I organized a care package from other

online friends and sent it to her. I'm sure, all in,

I spent over $200 in Kaycee-related expenses.

 

But you know what? I don't really feel cheated.

Regardless of the fact that Kaycee was really

Debbie/Kelli/whomever, she still made me smile for

almost 2 years. She made me laugh about life, and

really think about what life was all about.

 

Now that I know she never lived, laughed, smiled, had

chemo, died, etc., it doesn't really bother me too

much. The fact that she never existed, and Debbie

fabricated the whole thing doesn't really change what

"Kaycee" did in my life. She helped lift me up when I

was having bad days, she gave me love-life advice (not

that it worked... but still, it's the thought that

counts), she gave me a new perspective - to be young

and not having much time left. It doesn't matter that

she didn't really exist.

 

It's like going to a movie you thought was based on a

true story, and it really touched you, and you changed

because of it, and then you find out that the movie

was actually just made up, does it really matter?

You've changed your life for the better because of the

movie irregardless of the fact if it was based on a

real story or not.

 

Anyways, that's how I'm looking at the whole ordeal.

I can forgive Debbie. I'm going to take what good is

in this situation, and try not to focus on the bad.

Sure, it's a dumb, stupid, un-thoughtful thing that

Debbie did, but let's face it... it's not like she

spread hate and whatnot around the internet while she

was playing the role of "Kaycee." She was spreading

love, sunshine and good things... Let's at least try

to take some of the good away from all this.

 

My $.02,

Tim L. Walker

 

______________________________________________

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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35

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750 From: s h a u n a

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:57am

Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon goldengateblonde@...

Send Email

 

>Maybe she'll try to redeem herself

><http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>.

 

has anyone considered the notion that maybe the new blog was set up by some

other person just to cause discussion/commotion/whatever? it just seems

rather odd that debbie would start a blog with the exact same name, now

that the aforementioned name is "mud."

 

 

751 From: yahoo@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 3:11am

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot yahoo@...

Send Email

 

Yeah, it isn't her. It was pretty easy to tell from the style of the

other post that was there for part of the day on Thursday, then

disappeared. While there has been speculation she may try this again,

especially since she has boatloads of new pictures sent to her during

the final week of "Kaycee's life", my personal opinion is that if she

goes back online she will be herself next time. She has already

established that she has a way with words, the curiosity factor would

be tremendous -- I suspect she has a built-in initial audience.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., s h a u n a wrote:

> has anyone considered the notion that maybe the new blog was set up

by some other person

 

 

752 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 3:27am

Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Cheryl Eve" wrote:

> However, if I were Randall Van der Woning, I would be mailing

Debbie

> an invoice for the design, bandwidth, hosting, and long distance

> phone bills - in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest

bite

> taken.

 

On the gripping hand, since 'bwg' is a colonel in the people's

liberation army, hong kong counterintel psywar branch, i am sure his

expenses are covered...

 

 

753 From: dhartung@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 6:33am

Subject: dead@32 controversy dhartung@...

Send Email

 

There was a weblogs story on CNN Headline News today, which included

interviews with the usual assortment of A-listers, plus people like

Justin Hall (links.net) and John Grohol (Open Journal). The grohol

reference sparked a Metafilter search and I turned up this thread

that I'd only vaguely remembered (and attributed to something else

entirely, so looking it up, when I thought of it, proved fruitless).

There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as dead@32,

which Grohol hosted, and this thread delves into the question of the

fatalistic blogger's identity. The entire blog seems to have been an

invention of Grohol.

 

I had no idea it was just three months ago -- internet time is like

that.

 

(By contrast, I was also re-reading early Camworld tonight, seeing

what I recalled. Even though I probably started reading him regularly

in late 1998, that was also when I started my last job. Career-wise,

it seems like yesterday; internet-wise, it's antediluvian.)

 

 

754 From: dhartung@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 6:34am

Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:

> There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as

dead@32,

 

Whoops. Here's the link:

http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/6024

 

 

755 From: saundra@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 7:07am

Subject: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz saundra@...

Send Email

 

Got word from my pal in Peabody, and it looks like the quiet last week

was to give us time to get ready for the blitz this week. So far, Good

Morning America, The Today Show, Sally Jesse Raphael, and Dateline

have converged or contacted various persons in Peabody. Heh, I wonder

if Editor Sour Grapes from the Newton Kansan thinks it's news yet?

 

Saundra

 

 

756 From: Alastair Alexander

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 8:55am

Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon group@...

Send Email

 

> On the gripping hand, since 'bwg' is a colonel in the people's

> liberation army, hong kong counterintel psywar branch, i am sure his

> expenses are covered...

 

Hey, he might *say* he is, but are we *sure*?

 

 

757 From: "Dominique"

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 1:48pm

Subject: Re: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz dominique@...

Send Email

 

Well slap me on the posterior and call me surprised :) How does if feel to be right Bonni (msg #741). Debbie will have a hard time strolling down Main Street now without the stench of rotting fruit being flung at her. I unofficially declare today, as "I'm a happy camper day."

>So far, Good

Morning America, The Today Show, Sally Jesse Raphael, and Dateline

have converged or contacted various persons in Peabody. Heh, I wonder

if Editor Sour Grapes from the Newton Kansan thinks it's news yet?

 

Saundra

 

 

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758 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 1:53pm

Subject: Re: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz bonni@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dominique" wrote:

> Well slap me on the posterior and call me surprised :) How does if

feel to be right Bonni (msg #741). Debbie will have a hard time

strolling down Main Street now without the stench of rotting fruit

being flung at her. I unofficially declare today, as "I'm a happy

camper day."

 

Ah, my psychic powers are still intact. Good. ;-)

 

Seriously, I just know small towns all too well (which is why I live

in a big, big capital city ;-).

 

And actually, I'm hoping this will ultimately be good for Debbie. All

this pressure and negative attention and such, maybe it'll make her

crack just enough to seek the help I believe she needs (and that is

not something I say without compassion, by the way; the mentally ill

need help, just as the physically ill do, so it's not some sort of

negative indictment of anyone).

 

Still, I have to say that the thought of Debbie peeking out of her

house nervously and having to send her husband to the grocery store

because so many people stare and whisper is kind of good. It strikes

me as appropriate karma for the situation. Stand up in public and

lie, lie, lie to hundreds of people, and then hundreds of people will

stand you up in public and know you for the liar you are.

 

bonni

http://bonni.net/

 

 

759 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:02pm

Subject: CNN coverage sdenbes1@...

l

 

I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the

FBI closure.

 

 

760 From: "Dominique"

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:22pm

Subject: Re: CNN coverage dominique@...

Send Email

 

Oops you were missling the l in html there, so the link didn't work. For those keeping track on all the news stories this link should work:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.html

----- Original Message -----

From: sdenbes1@san.rr.com

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:02 AM

Subject: kaycee-nicole CNN coverage

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.htm

l

 

I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the

FBI closure.

 

 

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761 From: linlassie@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:47pm

Subject: Re: CNN coverage linlassie@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

>

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.htm

> l

>

> I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the

> FBI closure.

 

"The whole idea of an online journal is to write what you want to

write," she said. "I wanted it to be something positive."

 

This was way more than an online journal. Who is this lady kidding,

she made several phone calls and received several calls regarding

Kaycee's health, did she ever once stop to think about the people

with whom she was communicating on a persoanl level with.

What did she think would happen after the "death" that those people

would just say oh well lets get on with our own lives.

 

Perhaps there is no crime in the eyes of the FBI, however I think

this women should at least go on public T.V. and give a full account

of her actions and an apology....instead of hiding behind an unlisted

Ph#!!!!

 

762 From: BeanSprouts@...

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 0:14pm

Subject: Re: Re: CNN coverage BeanSprouts@...

Send Email

 

In a message dated 6/2/01 2:53:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, linlassie@HOME.COM

writes:

 

 

 

Perhaps there is no crime in the eyes of the FBI, however I think

this women should at least go on public T.V. and give a full account

of her actions and an apology....instead of hiding behind an unlisted

Ph#!!!!

 

 

and maybe... just maybe... she'll spin this into some fame and fortune

gaining incident. for some reason, the more i hear debbie talking to the

press, the more i keep drawing back to other social pariahs who have hired a

PR person and turned themselves into a pseudo celeb... if debbie is as

emotionally needy as she seems to be, i wouldn't be surprised.

 

monica lewinsky, darva conger anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

763 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"

Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 11:06pm

Subject: The Guardian (again) The Editor Supplement listlessness@...

Send Email

 

Sorry if this is re-post . . .

 

Mention in the Click Count column of the Web life page in The

Guardian's supplement 'The Editor'

 

Listing What's Hot at Moreover.com . . .

 

'5: The short life of Kaycee Nicole (hoax girl who recounted her

struggle against lukaemia in online diary "dies") '

 

Isn't media tracking fun?

 

 

764 From: dominique@...

Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 4:35am

Subject: Someting to think about and not condemn: dominique@...

Send Email

 

As I sit here unable to sleep on the eve of receiving my own test

results for possible breast cancer, I find myself reflecting on the

past week. I found true solace in being able to vent my anger here,

and I'm grateful for being allowed to make my point (not to mention

stand on my own proverbial soapbox.) I'm not asking for sympathy

(gawd I'd REALLY hate that), I'm merely explaining the following: as

a French Canadian born and bread, or as they say here "pure laine",

I'm also Catholic. However, when I attend services, I choose the

Anglican philosophy. This evening while I was rifling through my

night table drawer I found an old service pamphlet, which I have

saved for many years. The prayer that struck me then and inspired me

to save it is this:

 

Prayer Of St. Francis

 

Make me a channel of your peace.

Where there is hatred let me bring

your love: where there is injury,

your pardon, Lord; and where

there's love true faith in you.

 

Oh, master, grant that I may never

seek so much to be consoled as to

console: to be understood as to

understand: to be loved, as to love

with all my soul.

 

Make me a channel of your peace.

Where there's despair in life let me

bring hope; where there is

darkness, only light; and where

there's sadness ever joy.

 

Make me a channel of your peace.

It is in pardoning that we are

pardoned, in giving of ourselves

that we receive: and in dying that

we're borne to eternal life.

 

Au revoir et à bientôt. Thank you all for listening to my ramblings

but most importantly for understanding without details, why I needed

to.

 

 

765 From: DramaQueenH@...

Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 4:06pm

Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot DramaQueenH@...

Send Email

 

What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,

Heather Paula

 

 

766 From: Adam Geitgey

Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 3:48am

Subject: Creepy adam@...

Send Email

 

This is only slightly on topic, but I thought it was interesting. Apprently

one of Sony Picture's quote whores (aka movie reviewers that always give good

reviews to movies) didn't even exist. David Manning of The Ridgefield Press

is a fabrication. He was created by the marketing department to praise their

movies. Isn't that bordering on fraud?

 

Here's the story:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/581770.asp?cp1=1

 

Adam

 

 

767 From: kafeiaries@...

Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 6:48pm

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot kafeiaries@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:

> What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,

> Heather Paula

 

Heather, Debbie moved her blog, °living colours° to a private

domaine. The blogger that's listed here was made by a girl from

Hamphstead, London, England. She made it a few days after

Debbie moved hers, but she's refused to write in it because of

the hate mail that she's gotten about it. I emailed her, and was

fairly decent, and she explained that to me. "Living Colours" is

her band's name in London. But who knows? Debbie fooled me

once, who's to say that she's not trying to do it again.

 

James

 

 

768 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:29am

Subject: Story's getting around... saundra@...

Send Email

 

I don't have a link, or even a paper name, but my great aunt down in

Florida called to see if I was the Saundra in the newspaper article

about Kaycee. She lives in Largo (not Key Largo) so... it's out there

somewhere, y'all.

 

Saundra

 

 

769 From: "Alastair Alexander"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:25am

Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot group@...

Send Email

 

'Living Colour' was a band name of a rock band in the late 80s -

so 'Living Colours' (while derivative) is probably a coincidence.

 

Dunno if that helps.

 

Al

 

Quoting kafeiaries@...:

 

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:

> > What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,

> > Heather Paula

>

> Heather, Debbie moved her blog, °living colours° to a

> private

> domaine. The blogger that's listed here was made by a girl from

> Hamphstead, London, England. She made it a few days after

> Debbie moved hers, but she's refused to write in it because of

> the hate mail that she's gotten about it. I emailed her, and

> was

> fairly decent, and she explained that to me. "Living Colours"

> is

> her band's name in London. But who knows? Debbie fooled me

> once, who's to say that she's not trying to do it again.

>

> James

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

 

 

 

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770 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:07pm

Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:

> There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as

> dead@32, which Grohol hosted, and this thread delves into the

> question of the fatalistic blogger's identity. The entire blog

> seems to have been an invention of Grohol.

 

That's the conclusion I drew from all the similarities between

Dead@32 and Grohol's other weblog. Dave Winer has also accused Grohol

of being Zaphod, the pseudonymous publisher of Winerlog

(http://winerlog.editthispage.com) after Greg Knauss gave it up.

 

Dead@32 was an interesting weblog. The premise was that the author

believed he wouldn't live to his 33rd birthday in around September

2001. He never claimed anything about his real identity, though, so

it's not an identity hoax. Lots of weblogs are published by people

who don't provide details about their real names.

 

 

771 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:09pm

Subject: Re: Traces mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:

> Just one thing-- how did you guys get those postings traced? Did

> you have to pay to do it? Email me on this, if you don't want to

> post it here: comettailfire@y...

 

I'm not sure what postings you are referring to, but if you have the

IP address used to post a message or send an e-mail, you can find out

the name of the machine (if it has one) here:

 

http://cello.cs.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/slamm/ip2name

 

If you don't know the IP address, you're outta luck.

 

 

772 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:10pm

Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy mail@...

Send Email

 

I was wrong to speak about Dead@32 in the past tense:

 

http://www.deadat32.com/

 

 

773 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:45pm

Subject: Media Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

Australia again, another online mag named I.T., but not the same one

as before. The story is here:

 

http://it.mycareer.com.au/news/2001/06/05/FFXU2YJ4JNC.html

 

Saundra

 

 

774 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 2:31pm

Subject: More Media Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco

Gate:

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001

/06/05/DD140021.DTL

 

Saundra

 

 

775 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:23pm

Subject: Re: More Media Coverage mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> > Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco

> Gate:

> > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?

file=/chronicle/archive/2001

> /06/05/DD140021.DTL

 

Ugh.

 

To: Jon Carroll

 

"She was only text and a few photos on the Internet."

 

No, she was also long phone calls with at least a dozen people and a

P.O. box that she set up to receive cards and gifts. A child skipped

her allowance to buy gifts to cheer up Kaycee, and now her mother has

to tell the kid it was all a cynical hoax.

 

Kaycee was also the photos of a woman who had no idea dozens of her

pictures were being used for years on the Internet and in private

correspondence as a cancer sufferer. She loaned them to Debbie

Swenson to make a high school basketball scrapbook. Now everyone who

sent photos to Kaycee, at Debbie's request, is worried that she will

use them the next time she needs attention (which is likely to be

soon).

 

Kaycee is also real people who are being accused of fraud because

they are using the Web to document their fight against cancer or

another illness.

 

You really have to ignore a lot to view this loathsome, cynical hoax

as a positive thing. I think you would feel differently if you had

written a story about Kaycee before the ruse was uncovered, and all

you would have lost was a little journalistic credibility.

 

 

776 From: hj_new@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:01pm

Subject: Been lurking, thought I'd post. hj_new@...

Send Email

 

I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe

old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how

little Debbie researched about leukemia beforehand. According to a

passage a read a few weeks ago from Kaycee's blog, she was diagnosed

at a "routine doctor's visit." WHAT? I know a LOT of people who

have leukemia, and not ONE of us was diagnosed at a routine doctor's

visit. Some of us had to wait up to a week for various and sundry

tests to be run. I myself was in the hospital for three days before

my results came back. WHY? Because doctors don't look at children

and think "Oh, that child (or teenager or whatever) has leukemia!"

They want it to be something SIMPLE, FIRST.

 

What drew me to this particular story as it unfolded was that she

claimed to be a leukemia sufferer. Back in 1989 when I was

diagnosed, my mother was on PC-Link (which later merged with America

Online). We were new to our town and didn't have any friends, she

was newly divorced. She reached out using the Internet (in its

infancy) and received an OVERWHELMING amount of support. People sent

me cards and flowers and stuffed animals - it was amazing. The next

year, when I was better, I did a tour of three "bashes" at met the

people who gave me gifts. It was one of the most amazing things I've

ever done in my life.

 

This is what makes me angry about Debbie Swenson. She has taken away

a valuable resource to people who are legitimately suffering from

this disease. Now, people who are truly sick and try to reach out on

the internet may be doubted because of this. I know I would hate,

hate, hate for even one person who sent me things and maybe didn't

meet me to think that my mom was like that - that she lied to the

world to get stuff. Not that I'm egotistical enough to think this is

about me, I just think there's been an erosion of public trust.

 

Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick

(I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew

angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All

the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.

 

Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.

Thanks for listening!

Heather

 

 

777 From: "Tim Cunningham"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:52pm

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot timmopussycat@...

Send Email

 

Just checked out the above site. Here's what I found (in quotes). I

think someone is playing a game.

 

"Kaycee's blog

 

HOME

 

Archives:

05/20/2001 - 05/26/2001

 

Tuesday, May 22, 2001

Joining Billy's Group

 

Billy O'Dowd decided to let me join his little group of friends

earlier today when I helped them with several things that they needed

to have done. I like Billy and all, but his friends tend to fight all

the time. That isn't cool. People should love each other. I sent Jana

Dozier an email, but I doubt if she will answer it, or even got it.

 

I think that I should get some sleep. It's late. Almost 4 AM, and I

have that friends-once-again meeting to go to with Billy and his

family and friends. ~Kaycee

posted by Kaycee Nicole Swenson at 3:43 AM"

 

 

778 From: "Tara"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:50pm

Subject: Re: More Media Coverage tara@...

Send Email

 

About the article mentioned below.

 

I think that what people with this type of viewpoint overlook is that

human beings have a desire for authenticity. We're not just content to

live on "good feelings" - if we were, we'd all be looking forward to

the day a "miracle happiness drug" comes out.

 

We want our feelings to be in concord with reality. Even if we know

that we cannot touch reality, we try to get close. If we feel and live

a relationship with somebody, we do it on the assumption that it has

some reality - that is it not just fictional or delusional.

 

We may not be able to attain perfect a perfect collision between what

we feel or think and what is real, but we try to get close. It is a

legitimate desire, and one that gives meaning for us to the world and

our lives.

 

So when we find that somebody has (voluntarily!) led us to feel things

that had no connection with reality, we feel cheated. We feel mad. And

it's a perfectly normal reaction. We do not want to live in fiction.

We want to live in reality.

 

Denying this problem is missing a whole point about what life is and

how people function.

 

There ; ) - I think I've repeated myself enough in this email... I

hope my point gets across.

 

Tara - who isn't ashamed of wanting to live in the *real* world.

 

Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...

Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org

Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:31 PM

Subject: kaycee-nicole More Media Coverage

 

 

>

> Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco

> Gate:

>

>

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001

> /06/05/DD140021.DTL

 

 

779 From: Peggy Butterworth

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 8:42pm

Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. pbutterw@...

Send Email

 

Heather, it is very heartening to hear your story. I think your

reaction to treatment was a very healthy one! We should have wondered

at the the 'saccharin-sweetly optomistic' reaction we saw portrayed in

the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to

release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a

frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To

think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does

a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their

disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.

 

Peggy

 

hj_new@... wrote:

 

> I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe

> old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how

 

 

>

> Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick

> (I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew

> angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All

> the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.

>

> Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.

> Thanks for listening!

> Heather

 

 

780 From: "Dominique"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 9:27pm

Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. dominique@...

Send Email

 

When I wrote somewhere in a recent post (paraphrasing here): “that it isn’t all white picket fences and windblown oak trees,” I was speaking from personal experience too. Although I hadn’t been diagnosed with cancer yet, I was waiting for results after my dr. discovered cysts on my left breast. The truth was that I was pissed all hell. Not at the world at large, but at the disease which threatened my life as I knew it. Now that my results have come in and that the cysts are benign, I can still vividly recall the anger and the frustration of it all.

 

The truth of the matter is, people were willing to believe in the sweet romantic Kaycee version because the real story wouldn’t have been as comforting to read. When my own results weren’t as forthcoming as my dr. had promised, I went on an exasperated rampage of phone calls trying to find out what was wrong with me. Nobody would have been interested in reading about that in a weblog. Real survivors, or even the threatened ones like me, don’t just sit back on porch swings and watch sunsets. They fight like hell, and detest projecting themselves as victims. The last thing a real fighter wants to hear is “oh you poor baby”, blah, blah, blah. While my own mother was dying in her hospital bed of breast cancer, she pulled out all of her intravenous needles and tried to escape her room in the middle of the night. When the priest arrived to give her last rites she opened her eyes (even though she had been in a drug induced haze for days) and stared at him with all the defiance she could muster. When the nurses told me about her so-called “bad episode” the next morning, I knew what she was trying to do. She was telling them all to go fuck themselves, she wasn’t dead yet! That’s what REAL warriors do.

 

The writer in San Francisco needs a clue. Comparing celebrity divorces and stories about the President’s children to cancer sufferers, is like comparing rags like The National Enquire to the New York Times. Phooey on him!

 

D.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peggy Butterworth

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:42 PM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Been lurking, thought I'd post.

 

 

Heather, it is very heartening to hear your story. I think your

reaction to treatment was a very healthy one! We should have wondered

at the the 'saccharin-sweetly optomistic' reaction we saw portrayed in

the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to

release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a

frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To

think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does

a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their

disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.

 

Peggy

 

hj_new@hotmail.com wrote:

 

> I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe

> old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how

 

 

>

> Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick

> (I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew

> angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All

> the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.

>

> Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.

> Thanks for listening!

> Heather

 

 

 

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781 From: David Moisan

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 10:25pm

Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. dmoisan@...

Send Email

 

At 04:42 PM 6/5/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to

>release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a

>frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To

>think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does

>a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their

>disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.

 

That isn't the only disservice it does. During the time that the KC

persona existed, how many children and teens were diagnosed with leukemia

or some other form of cancer? How many of these kids were told, "See how

Kaycee is dealing with it? She's a hero! Chin up and be Happy!

 

How many more never got support because they didn't have the "right" attitude?

 

I said it before and I'll repeat it: THAT is the worst part of the Kaycee

Nichole story. No one in the media even notices (they like happy stories,

with the bad parts included only so long as there's a good ending.)

 

(Yes, I lost my mom to cancer. It was nothing like Reader's Digest.)

 

Take care,

 

Dave

 

David Moisan, N1KGH ARES/SKYWARN dmoisan@...

Invisible Disability:

http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/invisible_disability.html

ATS-909 FAQ: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/faqs/sangean/ats909faq.html

 

 

782 From: DramaQueenH@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:06pm

Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot DramaQueenH@...

Send Email

 

 

So what is the address of this website? Thanks!

 

Always,

Heather Paula

 

 

 

 

783 From: "Tim Cunningham"

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 11:42pm

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot timmopussycat@...

Send Email

 

The address is:

 

http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:

>

> So what is the address of this website? Thanks!

> Always,

> Heather Paula

 

 

784 From: acridrabbit@...

Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 11:55pm

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot acridrabbit@...

Send Email

 

Somebody's definitely having a joke. That looks very different from

the last time I checked in. Wonder what the scoop is? It's

definitely not some British chick in manchester and her blog aout her

band, which somebody posted was the case.

 

Snort.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tim Cunningham"

wrote:

> The address is:

>

> http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/

>

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:

> >

> > So what is the address of this website? Thanks!

> > Always,

> > Heather Paula

 

 

785 From: "nesserbelle"

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 3:35am

Subject: I've been lurking as well.. nesserbelle@...

Send Email

 

I've been lurking as well..I've only lost one relative to what we

think was the cancer. My grandfather had so many things wrong with

him at the time, noone really knows the exact cause. That's not the

point..I just have a few thoughts I'd like to share.

 

I found "Kaycee's" blog in September of last year. Like many I was

inspired and checked in everyday to see how she was doing. When the

post was written about how her liver was failing her, I called my

boyfriend and cried. We went out for dinner that night and said some

things that still echo in my mind..he said "Ness..If she does die, I

don't want you to be devastated..you emailed her once or twice, and

followed her life for a few months..other than that she was just

another person on the internet..for all you know she could be a he.

19 could be 87..you're a really sensitive person but you have to

watch that..you may get burned". My initial reaction was one of

anger, wondering how he could belittle my emotions and such. Turns

out he was right (it was a rare moment j/k ). The thing that really

boils my blood about this whole incident is that the real "warriors"

are being doubted. I was raped twice, once when I was 12 and again

two years ago. I have these stories posted on my site, and for the

most part people have been respectful. But as always there's one or

two who want "evidence". I usually respond with "what do you want?

a videotape?" but it does hurt. I try to be myself online, as much

as I am IRL. I have had people I went to school with emailing me and

asking me if I was the girl who wore doc martens to my graduation

because I sound so much like her. That's me.

 

I will always care about people, it's part of who I am. Now I just

know how much of myself is safe to give away.

 

xox Nessa

icq: 72544291

http://fiesty.net/nessa

 

 

786 From: kafeiaries@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 4:13am

Subject: Re:Living Colours kafeiaries@...

Send Email

 

I just posted the "explanation" that was sent to me. I don't know

Debbie's domaine email address other than the hotmail one, but the

email that I was sent came from AOL. I checked the profile, and sure

enough there was something on there about Manchester. But you can put

whatever you want on those. Just like anything else on the web. So if

it IS Debbie again, she's covered her trail a little better.

 

James

 

 

787 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 2:36pm

Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

Someone seems to definately be 'playing' a really cruel joke..they

are signing it Kaycee Nicole Swenson...

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tim Cunningham"

wrote:

> The address is:

>

> http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/

>

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:

> >

> > So what is the address of this website? Thanks!

> > Always,

> > Heather Paula

 

 

788 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 5:11pm

Subject: Real or Fake mail@...

Send Email

 

One of the more entertaing aspects of the Kaycee Nicole phenomenon

has been the number of people who came forward afterward to declare

how it was obviously a fake.

 

Maybe I'm a doofus, but I never considered the possibility that

Kaycee was fake. I didn't think anyone would go to the lengths that

Debbie did, dramatizing all those phone calls and other real-world

touches off the Web.

 

Here's a diary for those of you with more suspicious minds than me:

 

http://justjessica.diaryland.com

 

Is Jessica, the 15-year-old stalking her French teacher, a real

person?

 

 

789 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 6:24pm

Subject: Another article in the Peabody Gazette saundra@...

Send Email

 

Seems the Postal Inspector can't press charges because of

jurisdictional issues- and that Sally Jesse Raphael is sending Debbie

presents, trying to court her on the show...

 

http://www.peabodykansas.com/23hoax.html

 

Saundra

 

 

790 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 7:33pm

Subject: Re: Another article in the Peabody Gazette saundra@...

Send Email

 

Oooh, I read that poorly. The town can't press charges because of

jurisdictional issues, but the Postal Inspector hasn't gotten any

complaints yet. So, I reckon if the injured parties contacted him,

they'd look into it.

 

Saundra

 

 

791 From: roel@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 7:34pm

Subject: More on Munchausen and Kaycee at Wired roel@...

Send Email

 

More on Munchausen and Kaycee N.S.

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,44245,00.html

 

Interesting.

Roel

http://www.nonharmful.com

 

792 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 10:00pm

Subject: Re: Real or Fake sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> One of the more entertaing aspects of the Kaycee Nicole phenomenon

> has been the number of people who came forward afterward to declare

> how it was obviously a fake.

>

> Maybe I'm a doofus, but I never considered the possibility that

> Kaycee was fake. I didn't think anyone would go to the lengths that

> Debbie did, dramatizing all those phone calls and other real-world

> touches off the Web.

 

I think that there is a difference in how people reacted who

discovered it all at once and saw the end product without prior

exposure, and how people reacted who watched it develop slowly over

time.

 

 

793 From: "Dominique"

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 10:55pm

Subject: Re: Re: Real or Fake dominique@...

Send Email

 

I agree. Since I am one of those who reacted to the situation only after the details of the hoax were uncovered, I can sincerely say that I didn’t blame anybody for believing in the Kaycee story while Debbie she was in the height of her popularity. Also, looking back at my posts in chronological order, it’s obvious that my opinion changed early on, after reading posts from those who were directly affected by the lie.

My reason for participating in this forum was never meant as finger pointing, but rather completely self-interested in nature. In fact I even wrote to BWG to tell him that I sympathized with him and that I acknowledged the “real” grief he and his wife must be feeling. We are all different and whether it is nurture or nature, we all react I different ways. In my case, since I don’t tend to be overly sentimental, I would have felt sorry for Kaycee, but Debbie’s writing would have completely nauseated me. After a cursory 1st read, I probably wouldn’t have bookmarked her blog. Furthermore, my experiences in the very early days of Yahoo chat, taught me to be careful of people who pretended to be somebody else. One woman also pretended to have cancer, which turned out to be a severe dependence on prescription drugs. Another pretended to be an ace acrobatic flyer with the Canadian Snow Geese and conned me into making a website for him. He also had all sorts of photos to prove he was real. This time however, it was I who actually phoned the Snow Geese detachment and spoke to one of their officers, who confirmed that this person never existed and that it was all a hoax. The Canadian Military Police contacted me afterwards and confirmed that she couldn’t do anything about it since this guy lived outside of her jurisdiction. Turns out he was a ferry boat employee living in Prince Edward Island, with a wife and 3 kids, not to mention a horribly boring life. His only excuse for perpetrating the hoax was that he was just a fan.

 

All of this happened over 3 years ago and as far as I’m concerned pretty much forgotten. The only reason I so readily jumped on the bandwagon this time was that I was expecting results for possible breast cancer, and had plans to blog about it if the results turned out to be positive. Luckily all is well and I’m fine, but I felt robbed and cheated and because of Debbie’s desperate need for attention, I was afraid to be doubted.

 

There, I hope I managed to clear my motives up. Sorry for taking so long.

 

D.

----- Original Message -----

From: sdenbes1@san.rr.com

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:00 PM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: Real or Fake

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> One of the more entertaing aspects of the Kaycee Nicole phenomenon

> has been the number of people who came forward afterward to declare

> how it was obviously a fake.

>

> Maybe I'm a doofus, but I never considered the possibility that

> Kaycee was fake. I didn't think anyone would go to the lengths that

> Debbie did, dramatizing all those phone calls and other real-world

> touches off the Web.

 

I think that there is a difference in how people reacted who

discovered it all at once and saw the end product without prior

exposure, and how people reacted who watched it develop slowly over

time.

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

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794 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 11:47pm

Subject: Photo of Debbie saundra@...

Send Email

 

They added a picture to the story at the Peabody Gazette (go to the

front page this time at http://www.peabodykansas.com) - we've all seen

this photo- both in this form, and as the cropped, photoshopped image

Bob Sullivan used on the MSNBC site. Confirmation from Peabody says

this is, indeed, Debbie with Julie Fullbright, and the boy in the

middle is Debbie's son Brian.

 

Saundra

 

 

795 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 11:59pm

Subject: Re: Real or Fake saundra@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> One of the more entertaing aspects of the Kaycee Nicole phenomenon

> has been the number of people who came forward afterward to declare

> how it was obviously a fake.

 

Well, it's very easy to be certain when you already know the truth!

Even -I- had some doubts, y'all. Sunday morning after I made my

accusations and did my research, the College Club sites had started to

pop out of the woodwork, and I was beginning to wonder if I hadn't

made a horrible mistake. There were new pictures, and all of a sudden,

there were some of the contemporary popcult references that had been

missing in the journals abounded in the College Club sites. And

family sites! And a mention in the New York Times! There was just SO

much of Kaycee, in SO many places, at SO many different times, I

couldn't imagine somebody making ALL of that up. I sat in dread

waiting for "proof" of Kaycee's existence to make it to my mailbox,

and I was ready to pay bigtime penance if I got it.

 

I think the people now claiming they never would have fallen for it

are just being smug. Maybe even a little insecure, and boasting that

they couldn't be taken in by something like this makes them feel

safer. It's magical thinking- if I believe I am invulnerable, I am. I

figure if that kind of denial is necessary for them to continue

enjoying the Internet, then so be it. Nobody who started out in the

beginning with this and got taken along on Debbie's wild trip should

feel bad or dumb. Parcelled out a bit at a time, with real life

correspondence in snail mail and on the phone, there's no reason to

believe that she's anything less than real.

 

Saundra

 

 

796 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 1:33pm

Subject: Real or Fake: Fake mail@...

Send Email

 

The author of the Just Jessica diary mentioned here yesterday has

admitted it's a hoax.

 

http://justjessica.diaryland.com

 

I love this part of the confession: "Oh, and I'm not Debbie Swenson

and I didn't enter into any personal contact over and above the

signing of a couple of guestbooks. love Jessica xox"

 

 

797 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 10:29pm

Subject: Real or Fake? sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

I've read a lot of weblogs over the past few days. Just makes me wonder

how many of them are Debbies? Was that Marcy girl a Debbie too? She

started the other Living Colours thing and will admit it.

 

Bonnie

 

 

798 From: "Skysage"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 10:45pm

Subject: Re: Real or Fake: Fake skysage5@...

Send Email

 

But of course she would "admit" that it was a hoax. What she is doing

is stalking plain and simple. Quite the easy out it seems.

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> The author of the Just Jessica diary mentioned here yesterday has

> admitted it's a hoax.

>

> http://justjessica.diaryland.com

>

> I love this part of the confession: "Oh, and I'm not Debbie Swenson

> and I didn't enter into any personal contact over and above the

> signing of a couple of guestbooks. love Jessica xox"

 

 

799 From: "Skysage"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 10:51pm

Subject: Re: Real or Fake: Fake skysage5@...

Send Email

 

The child needs serious help. http://justjessica.signmyguestbook.com/

She even made up entries from "Alan."

 

 

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> The author of the Just Jessica diary mentioned here yesterday has

> admitted it's a hoax.

>

> http://justjessica.diaryland.com

>

> I love this part of the confession: "Oh, and I'm not Debbie Swenson

> and I didn't enter into any personal contact over and above the

> signing of a couple of guestbooks. love Jessica xox"

 

 

800 From: "elizAbeth"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 11:39pm

Subject: Hmph. amazingjettgrrrl@...

Send Email

 

JustJessica seems to be some form of vegetarian; THAT explains it all.

 

 

801 From: "Dominique"

Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 11:52pm

Subject: Re: Re: Real or Fake: Fake dominique@...

Send Email

 

Whoever this girl is and/or whether this is another hoax or not, let’s try to keep in mind people that she is only FIFTEEN years old for heaven’s sake. Some of the entries I read in her guestbook are absolutely disgusting, and could do serious damage to a vulnerable and obviously confused young girl.

There is no reason for attacking her in her guestbook. Furthermore, whoever the spam sucking trailer trash is who is pretended to be Alan, obviously missed the pill cart this last month or so. Just keep in mind that there’s nothing more ludicrous then a gang mentality hurling insults to someone they know nothing about. Next time you feel the need to belittle someone who can’t fight back, try picking on somebody your own size, using your real name and preferably one on one. It is my firm conviction that you wouldn’t last a minute… Now off you go; Time to report to your parole officer isn’t it?

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Skysage

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:51 PM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: Real or Fake: Fake

 

 

 

The child needs serious help. http://justjessica.signmyguestbook.com/

She even made up entries from "Alan."

 

 

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> The author of the Just Jessica diary mentioned here yesterday has

> admitted it's a hoax.

>

> http://justjessica.diaryland.com

>

> I love this part of the confession: "Oh, and I'm not Debbie Swenson

> and I didn't enter into any personal contact over and above the

> signing of a couple of guestbooks. love Jessica xox"

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

802 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 2:24am

Subject: Re: Real or Fake: Fake truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

Obviously there have been alot of confession over the past few days...

 

Yes, keep in mind that while there is a possibility that there may be

other sites over the web that Debbie may have orchestrated we *can't*

assume that every site is hers. Yes, Jessica created a fake site but

while I haven't read her journal at least she went and confessed

before she took it too far and was found out like Debbie did. I

haven't read the enteries yet and the words you say can do damage.

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dominique" wrote:

> Whoever this girl is and/or whether this is another hoax or not,

let's try to keep in mind people that she is only FIFTEEN years old

for heaven's sake. Some of the entries I read in her guestbook are

absolutely disgusting, and could do serious damage to a vulnerable

and obviously confused young girl.

> There is no reason for attacking her in her guestbook. Furthermore,

whoever the spam sucking trailer trash is who is pretended to be

Alan, obviously missed the pill cart this last month or so. Just

keep in mind that there's nothing more ludicrous then a gang

mentality hurling insults to someone they know nothing about. Next

time you feel the need to belittle someone who can't fight back, try

picking on somebody your own size, using your real name and

preferably one on one. It is my firm conviction that you wouldn't

last a minute. Now off you go; Time to report to your parole officer

isn't it?

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Skysage

> To: kaycee-nicole@y...

> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:51 PM

> Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: Real or Fake: Fake

>

>

>

> The child needs serious help.

http://justjessica.signmyguestbook.com/

> She even made up entries from "Alan."

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> > The author of the Just Jessica diary mentioned here yesterday

has

> > admitted it's a hoax.

> >

> > http://justjessica.diaryland.com

> >

> > I love this part of the confession: "Oh, and I'm not Debbie

Swenson

> > and I didn't enter into any personal contact over and above the

> > signing of a couple of guestbooks. love Jessica xox"

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@y...

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

803 From: "Roxanne Dee Robinson"

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 11:52am

Subject: Listen rorobinson@...

Send Email

 

Ok, to the person who said that the people in peabody wheren't gonna let debbie forget about this and throw rotten fruit at her or something, and to Bonni, who keeps going on and on how she knows how small towns are and were gonna hold a grudge against debbie or whatever. Listen.. the truth is is that this isn't really a pressing issue in our town. People are more concerned that a neighboring city that's going to provides us with cleaner water this year has to postpose our new water because of a crack in our tanks, or the fact that our schools arent keeping teachers or that our down town economy isn't going to help us survive as a town if it keeps falling lower and lower... the whole town isn't waiting with baited breath on what the next chapter of the Kaycee drama is..The old men don't talk about it in the coffee shops, the ladies at the hair salon may say, "hey we saw a CNN truck today" but for the most part people here have LIVES. We are mothers, fathers, workers, students, we have other things going on in this world than talking about something that half of the people in the town don't even understand. many of the old timers only know about the internet as some new fangled www. thing. Don't take that as being snide, but its a serious fact that many of our towns folk are old school and being from that school doesn't bother them..

But there are a few people who can not stop talking about all of this... but those are the same people who talk about everyone.. not just Debbie Swenson and her made up daughter... they talk about the principals, the superindents, the preachers, the grocery man, EVERYONE and there dog and who's car was at what house at what time... but that's only a select group.

Sure everyone read the story.. sure everyone said, "damn, another reason were going to have to proof that weren't all hicks and dumb farmers, but a town with something to offer people", sure we all said, "hmmm this lady is psycho" but after we line our wastepaper baskets with the old gazette, most of the time, the stories in that paper are old and tired and forgotten about.

I just want peopple to realize that if anything we don't care about this, it's in our minds, but it's not something that's talked about at dinner tables or Letter to the Editored in the paper.. we have other stuff to do than obcess about what debbie swenson does behind closed doors of her house.

You may ask if no one cares about it, then why are you writing this long letter to the people who care about it the most.. I am writing this because in what I have read about the story no one seems to be sticking up for our town... It's not all a bunch of Debbie Swensons..

we are people to.. we don't want to have people think that we are goign to black list the Swensons and hang debbie in town square.. we just want to go on with our lives. I am a cancer victim and I don't need debbie or anyone else to stand up for me.. neither do others ... we have each other in our little close knit town. I agree with Chris Strunk that we need to all move on cause babbling on and on about what happened and why it happenned and the "latest developments" in the "controversy" is stupid and irrelivent. It happened. It's over. Lets move on.

 

Thanks for your time

Roxanne Robinson

 

 

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804 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 1:02pm

Subject: Re: Listen bonni@...

Send Email

 

Since I was mentioned by name, I'd like to note that I've lived in

more than one small town. Rumors and gossip stays for a long time. Of

course people don't sit around obsessed with it, or discussing it

constantly over their chops and veggies. That's NOT what I said.

 

Most small towns I've lived in (okay, ALL of them, including two in

the American Midwest, and one of which I went to high school in) just

tend to remember things for a long, long time. Most people in the

town of Peabody now think she's a kook (you said so yourself,

although you used the word "psycho"), and she's been exposed for a

liar. That's basically all I was saying. I certainly meant no insult

to the town of Peabody, specifically.

 

I'm not going to defend myself further or clarify what I thought was

an obvious point, although I have noted that apparently my writing

isn't as clear as I thought it was (and I'll take steps in the future

to make sure I write with more clarity). You can now find someone

else to single out by name, because I'm not going to argue with you

any more. If you choose to believe I said or meant other than I did,

that's your business.

 

bonni

http://bonni.net/

 

 

805 From: "Skysage"

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 3:16pm

Subject: Re: Real or Fake: Fake skysage5@...

Send Email

 

Again, the voice of reason speaks. KUDOS

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dominique" wrote:

> Whoever this girl is and/or whether this is another hoax or not,

let's try to keep in mind people that she is only FIFTEEN years old

for heaven's sake. Some of the entries I read in her guestbook are

absolutely disgusting, and could do serious damage to a vulnerable

and obviously confused young girl.

> There is no reason for attacking her in her guestbook. Furthermore,

whoever the spam sucking trailer trash is who is pretended to be

Alan, obviously missed the pill cart this last month or so. Just

keep in mind that there's nothing more ludicrous then a gang

mentality hurling insults to someone they know nothing about. Next

time you feel the need to belittle someone who can't fight back, try

picking on somebody your own size, using your real name and

preferably one on one. It is my firm conviction that you wouldn't

last a minute. Now off you go; Time to report to your parole officer

isn't it?

 

 

806 From: "Dominique"

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 4:16pm

Subject: Re: Listen dominique@...

Send Email

 

Dear Roxanne,

 

Thank you for your honest letter. It certainly helps bring things into focus, not to mention gratifying to read the thoughts of someone who actually lives in Peabody. Just to clarify, I was one of those who condoned the flying fruit. Although I hardly had images of the “Crucible” whirling around in my head, and I’m sure Bonnie didn’t either. I suppose that in my self-righteous indignation, I was hoping that the good people of your town would pick-up where we, the internet community, could not go such as force her to get psychiatric help.

But your common sense approach expressed so well in your letter taught me a lot of things. First I learned that the problem is not yours but ours. Secondly, it is very obvious that you are proud community, and I’m truly sorry that Debbie’s online deceit resulted in bringing hurtful publicity. But we already knew that people from all over take part in the popular practice of online journaling, not just those living in small towns. Since the deception took place online and that many people online were hurt by her lies, it became important for us to make an example of her. Nobody believes that we completely solved the problem of role-playing online, but at least we may have minimized the chances of it happening time and again. Peoples trust and feelings are not to be trifled with, and that’s exactly what Debbie did in the most self-serving and selfish way possible.

 

Many times during these last weeks I was reminded of “group therapy” sessions, where a circle of people who don’t necessarily know each other nonetheless share their opinions and ideas. Many of the opinions shared here helped us to better understand what happened and especially why.

 

Lastly I can’t express how sorry I am to read about your fight with cancer. The tension of all of this can’t be helping your recovery, and if you decide to line your birdcage with stories of this hoax, I for one wouldn’t blame you one bit. However, what you should understand is that not all of us have large extended families or even close knit communities that we can rely on for support in times of need. Many of us, including myself, have had occasion to reach out through this medium for advice and much needed encouragement. Should Debbie’s dishonesty prevent others from receiving the same kind of help they dearly need?

 

Again, thank you for posting in this forum. Your thoughts and comments were very timely and much appreciated.

 

Yours most sincerely,

Dominique Delhaes

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Roxanne Dee Robinson

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 7:52 AM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Listen

 

 

Ok, to the person who said that the people in peabody wheren't gonna let debbie forget about this and throw rotten fruit at her or something, and to Bonni, who keeps going on and on how she knows how small towns are and were gonna hold a grudge against debbie or whatever. Listen.. the truth is is that this isn't really a pressing issue in our town. People are more concerned that a neighboring city that's going to provides us with cleaner water this year has to postpose our new water because of a crack in our tanks, or the fact that our schools arent keeping teachers or that our down town economy isn't going to help us survive as a town if it keeps falling lower and lower... the whole town isn't waiting with baited breath on what the next chapter of the Kaycee drama is..The old men don't talk about it in the coffee shops, the ladies at the hair salon may say, "hey we saw a CNN truck today" but for the most part people here have LIVES. We are mothers, fathers, workers, student!

s, we have other things going on in this world than talking about something that half of the people in the town don't even understand. many of the old timers only know about the internet as some new fangled www. thing. Don't take that as being snide, but its a serious fact that many of our towns folk are old school and being from that school doesn't bother them..

But there are a few people who can not stop talking about all of this... but those are the same people who talk about everyone.. not just Debbie Swenson and her made up daughter... they talk about the principals, the superindents, the preachers, the grocery man, EVERYONE and there dog and who's car was at what house at what time... but that's only a select group.

Sure everyone read the story.. sure everyone said, "damn, another reason were going to have to proof that weren't all hicks and dumb farmers, but a town with something to offer people", sure we all said, "hmmm this lady is psycho" but after we line our wastepaper baskets with the old gazette, most of the time, the stories in that paper are old and tired and forgotten about.

I just want peopple to realize that if anything we don't care about this, it's in our minds, but it's not something that's talked about at dinner tables or Letter to the Editored in the paper.. we have other stuff to do than obcess about what debbie swenson does behind closed doors of her house.

You may ask if no one cares about it, then why are you writing this long letter to the people who care about it the most.. I am writing this because in what I have read about the story no one seems to be sticking up for our town... It's not all a bunch of Debbie Swensons..

we are people to.. we don't want to have people think that we are goign to black list the Swensons and hang debbie in town square.. we just want to go on with our lives. I am a cancer victim and I don't need debbie or anyone else to stand up for me.. neither do others ... we have each other in our little close knit town. I agree with Chris Strunk that we need to all move on cause babbling on and on about what happened and why it happenned and the "latest developments" in the "controversy" is stupid and irrelivent. It happened. It's over. Lets move on.

 

Thanks for your time

Roxanne Robinson

 

 

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807 From: rorobinson@...

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 5:24pm

Subject: Re: Listen rorobinson@...

Send Email

 

I am not trying to upset anyone.. I was just saying... that's all...

thanks... :)

 

 

808 From: feliksbigiron@...

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 7:54pm

Subject: Re: Listen feliksbigiron@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Roxanne Dee Robinson"

wrote:

> "Ok, to the person who said that the people in peabody wheren't

gonna let debbie forget about this and throw rotten fruit at her or

something, and to Bonni, who keeps going on and on how she knows how

small towns are and were gonna hold a grudge against debbie or

whatever..."

 

Peabody is located in the 'fly-over people' zone, ie, all the people

you fly over when you jet from nuyawk to frisco and nobody takes them

serious on either coast.

 

I mean these people actually wear their dozer hats with the bill

forward and the hat level on their head!

 

Most of them own guns, hate child molesters, drive pickups, go to

church and get really confused when you ask them how to tell the

bride from the groom at gay 'weddings'...

 

And they didn't have a lot trouble voting for Bush in all the 'red'

areas on the eletoral map, unlike the 5,600 felons who mostly voted

for Algore in Floriduh...

 

 

809 From: "Josee"

Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 8:13pm

Subject: French coverage lithium_ophelia@...

Send Email

 

I dont know if someone already posted this article, but I just found

an article about the Kaycee hoax in a French magazine.

 

Here's the link for those of you who speaks French.

 

http://www.transfert.net/fr/culture/article.cfm?

idx_rub=110&idx_art=5752

 

 

810 From: "Bonnie"

Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:04am

Subject: Re:Listen sarrissa87@...

Send Email

 

From experience, I can say that the stuff that Bonni mentioned

about small towns can happen in any town really. I know that

people in larger towns can spread things faster and more

vicious than small towns, and this won't just stay in Peabody. It

seems to be making world-wide news. I doubt that there'll be

anywhere that Debbie can go where she'll be unknown for what

she did. Too bad she didn't think of that in the beginning.

 

Bonnie

 

 

811 From: "Dominique"

Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:40am

Subject: A small retraction dominique@...

Send Email

 

Tweebiscuit wrote me to clarify the difference between online roll-playing games, and what Debbie did which is basically impersonating someone else and fabricating an online persona as though she were a real person. Although I don't participate in any of these popular roll-playing games myself, I didn't mean to say that there was anything wrong with them. If I did play and let's say somebody was pretending to be a giraffe, then I'm pretty sure I'd know that real life giraffes can't type :o)

 

Anyway, thought I'd try to make things a little clearer. Thanks Cookie Boy *wink*!

 

D.

----- Original Message -----

From: Bonnie

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 8:04 PM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re:Listen

 

 

From experience, I can say that the stuff that Bonni mentioned

about small towns can happen in any town really. I know that

people in larger towns can spread things faster and more

vicious than small towns, and this won't just stay in Peabody. It

seems to be making world-wide news. I doubt that there'll be

anywhere that Debbie can go where she'll be unknown for what

she did. Too bad she didn't think of that in the beginning.

 

Bonnie

 

 

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812 From: Adam Conover

Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 5:06am

Subject: (Fwd) Re: Listen adam@...

Send Email

 

oops! i meant to send this to the whole list, but forgot that just

"reply" wouldn't do the trick! here you go!

 

- adam

 

------- Forwarded message follows -------

From: Adam Conover

To: "Dominique"

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Listen

Send reply to: adam@...

Date sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:16:01 -0700

 

On 8 Jun 2001, at 12:16, Dominique muttered into a little tape recorder:

> Nobody believes that we completely solved the problem of role-

>playing online, but at least we may have minimized the chances of it

>happening time and again. Peoples trust and feelings are not to be

>trifled with, and that's exactly what Debbie did in the most self-

>serving and selfish way possible.

 

Well -- we have to remember that the internet is, after all, a more

free sort of community that we're used to -- some amount of

roleplaying is inevitable, and even desirable among some

circumstances... obviously, no one is going to criticize someone who

creates a webpage for their vampire character. What distinguished

Debbie's particular form of deception was that she didn't indicate

her "role-playing" and eventually ended up perpetrating full-blown

emotional fraud. We shouldn't try to stop fictional online journals --

"living colours" in itself was nothing to get particularily riled

over (apart from its misrepresentation of cancer victims.) The real

crime here was Debbie's extension of this deception in the real

world. There's a difference between "I'm writing a work of fiction

that appears at first to be true" and "I'm pretending to be a

fictional person to the extent that I'm leading people to believe she

exists outside of the internet and my imagination."

 

- adam

 

------- End of forwarded message -------

 

i blog at:

813 From: "Tara"

Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 6:11am

Subject: Re: French coverage tellme@...

Send Email

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Josee

> Here's the link for those of you who speaks French.

>

> http://www.transfert.net/fr/culture/article.cfm?

> idx_rub=110&idx_art=5752

 

I have to say (no suprise, of course) I'm a little disappointed by the

reactions to the article. "People who believed in Kaycee were naive",

"don't trust people on the Internet", "go help people you know IRL"

all denote for me of a very shallow understanding of the "affair".

 

Of course, I added my 2 cents in the discussion forum, but oh well! -

I shouldn't expect people to change overnight, should I?

 

Apart from that, the article itself is not too bad.

 

Tara

Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...

Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org

Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net

 

 

814 From: Debra Edwards

Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:50pm

Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Listen Tamia@...

Send Email

 

I hope that coverage of this hoax will indeed deter future internet hoaxes.I remember wanting to catch our hoaxer so badly on my ezboard forum.What I wanted most was to get the word out about the bitch who did it to us.I hope you all take some solace in the fact that internet users around the world are aware of what you went through,and will avoid the feelings of hurt,anger,and betrayal that these hoaxers cause.

(BTW,I'm still not sure how these Yahoo groups works.This message is intended for the forum)

 

--- Adam Conover

> wrote:

>

>oops! i meant to send this to the whole list, but forgot that just

>"reply" wouldn't do the trick! here you go!

>

>- adam

>

>------- Forwarded message follows -------

>From: Adam Conover

>To: "Dominique"

>Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Listen

>Send reply to: adam@...

>Date sent: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:16:01 -0700

>

>On 8 Jun 2001, at 12:16, Dominique muttered into a little tape recorder:

>> Nobody believes that we completely solved the problem of role-

>>playing online, but at least we may have minimized the chances of it

>>happening time and again. Peoples trust and feelings are not to be

>>trifled with, and that's exactly what Debbie did in the most self-

>>serving and selfish way possible.

>

>Well -- we have to remember that the internet is, after all, a more

>free sort of community that we're used to -- some amount of

>roleplaying is inevitable, and even desirable among some

>circumstances... obviously, no one is going to criticize someone who

>creates a webpage for their vampire character. What distinguished

>Debbie's particular form of deception was that she didn't indicate

>her "role-playing" and eventually ended up perpetrating full-blown

>emotional fraud. We shouldn't try to stop fictional online journals --

> "living colours" in itself was nothing to get particularily riled

>over (apart from its misrepresentation of cancer victims.) The real

>crime here was Debbie's extension of this deception in the real

>world. There's a difference between "I'm writing a work of fiction

>that appears at first to be true" and "I'm pretending to be a

>fictional person to the extent that I'm leading people to believe she

>exists outside of the internet and my imagination."

>

>- adam

>

>------- End of forwarded message -------

>

>i blog at:

> http://www.tweebiscuit.net

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

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815 From: "Tara"

Date: Sun Jun 10, 2001 5:11pm

Subject: french coverage - libération tellme@...

Send Email

 

quite a good article, btw.

http://www.liberation.com/multi/actu/20010604/20010605marzc.html

 

Tara

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816 From: Heather Nunya

Date: Sun Jun 10, 2001 10:38pm

Subject: Re: Listen heather8080@...

Send Email

 

I am from a town that is 10 minutes away from where Debbie used to live. She was an all-around person....at one time. She did everything for the school system and who would have thought she could have exploited someone like this. But I am tired of people worrying about Debbie. I am sick and tired of the stereo types small towns are given. If everyone that is from a big town believes that we, who are from small towns hold grudges and gossip about the smallest things then I guess we should believe the stereo types that are put on big cities. That everyone from a big city is rude. Most of the business men from big cities screw their secretaries on the side...yada yada yada. No!

 

To get to my point. Lets forget about Debbie for a few seconds. What about all of the people who got emotionally involved with this story. And what about Julie, the innocent girl who's pictures were used to portray Kaycee Nicole? What about Julie's parents?

 

I know Julie and she has kept a humorous attitude about this. One of the statements that were in the paper was "sure, debbie had a good story..she just should have written a book".

 

End of the story. Debbie needs serious mental help. And whatever grudges somepeople hold against her....she deserves.

 

Roxanne Dee Robinson wrote:

 

Ok, to the person who said that the people in peabody wheren't gonna let debbie forget about this and throw rotten fruit at her or something, and to Bonni, who keeps going on and on how she knows how small towns are and were gonna hold a grudge against debbie or whatever. Listen.. the truth is is that this isn't really a pressing issue in our town. People are more concerned that a neighboring city that's going to provides us with cleaner water this year has to postpose our new water because of a crack in our tanks, or the fact that our schools arent keeping teachers or that our down town economy isn't going to help us survive as a town if it keeps falling lower and lower... the whole town isn't waiting with baited breath on what the next chapter of the Kaycee drama is..The old men don't talk about it in the coffee shops, the ladies at the hair salon may say, "hey we saw a CNN truck today" but for the most part people here have LIVES. We are mothers, fathers, workers, students, we have other things going on in this world than talking about something that half of the people in the town don't even understand. many of the old timers only know about the internet as some new fangled www. thing. Don't take that as being snide, but its a serious fact that many of our towns folk are old school and being from that school doesn't bother them..

But there are a few people who can not stop talking about all of this... but those are the same people who talk about everyone.. not just Debbie Swenson and her made up daughter... they talk about the principals, the superindents, the preachers, the grocery man, EVERYONE and there dog and who's car was at what house at what time... but that's only a select group.

Sure everyone read the story.. sure everyone said, "damn, another reason were going to have to proof that weren't all hicks and dumb farmers, but a town with something to offer people", sure we all said, "hmmm this lady is psycho" but after we line our wastepaper baskets with the old gazette, most of the time, the stories in that paper are old and tired and forgotten about.

I just want peopple to realize that if anything we don't care about this, it's in our minds, but it's not something that's talked about at dinner tables or Letter to the Editored in the paper.. we have other stuff to do than obcess about what debbie swenson does behind closed doors of her house.

You may ask if no one cares about it, then why are you writing this long letter to the people who care about it the most.. I am writing this because in what I have read about the story no one seems to be sticking up for our town... It's not all a bunch of Debbie Swensons..

we are people to.. we don't want to have people think that we are goign to black list the Swensons and hang debbie in town square.. we just want to go on with our lives. I am a cancer victim and I don't need debbie or anyone else to stand up for me.. neither do others ... we have each other in our little close knit town. I agree with Chris Strunk that we need to all move on cause babbling on and on about what happened and why it happenned and the "latest developments" in the "controversy" is stupid and irrelivent. It happened. It's over. Lets move on.

 

Thanks for your time

Roxanne Robinson

 

 

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817 From: rorobinson@...

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:07am

Subject: Re: Listen rorobinson@...

Send Email

 

I don't mean to sound like I don't understand your pain in being

rused in such an awful way.. My intent in writing the post in the

forum was to say that 1. I didn't want people to think we as a town

are ralying behind debbie 2. That we had anything to do with this

3.It wasn't something that was weighing our town down with it's day

to day happenings.

 

I ment no disrespect in my post, but in my readings here I have got

the impression on more than one occassion of people thinking that we

are nothing but a bunch of stupid hicks, and I wanted to make sure

that we as a town didn't get blacklisted in peoples eyes for a

newcomers mistake.

 

I go to college at a pretty large university by Kansas standard and I

have to fight the redneck stereotype alot. I just wanted people to

understand that the Kaycee controversy isn't really our top list of

things to do. We do understand that this is wrong and that Debbie

really hurt you all.. but we have other things to do than hold a

grudge. The people in our town have been through sooo much and we I

think have all learned that that isn't going to solve anything, so we

just move on.

 

I hope that I Haven't offended anyone. I just wanted someone to stick

up for a minor player in this whole discussion. Debbie's town.

 

 

818 From: dhartung@...

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 7:44am

Subject: Re: Listen dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., rorobinson@a... wrote:

> 3.It wasn't something that was weighing our town down with it's day

> to day happenings.

 

This is actually what I believe, sorry, Bonni ... most people will

shrug their shoulders and go on with their lives!

 

> I ment no disrespect in my post, but in my readings here I have got

> the impression on more than one occassion of people thinking that

we

> are nothing but a bunch of stupid hicks, and I wanted to make sure

> that we as a town didn't get blacklisted in peoples eyes for a

> newcomers mistake.

 

I don't get that impression of anyone. You might be surprised how

many people right here on this list *live* in small towns ... or are,

at least, from one. The internet makes us all equal.

 

> I go to college at a pretty large university by Kansas standard and

I

> have to fight the redneck stereotype alot.

 

Don't mind that Feliks jerk with his jokes about the flyover. I think

I'll ban him for the attempt to start a flamewar about politics,

which is the real reason for his post.

 

> I hope that I Haven't offended anyone. I just wanted someone to

stick

> up for a minor player in this whole discussion. Debbie's town.

 

There are worse things to be notorious for. Just ask Columbine, or

Oklahoma City. Unfortunately.

 

 

819 From: dhartung@...

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 7:55am

Subject: Group Status dhartung@...

Send Email

 

With discussions petering out, and unsubscribes starting to outnumber

subscribes, I'm thinking it's time to bring this group to a graceful

end. I'll leave posting open for another week, and then it should

probably change to a moderated announcement-only forum tracking any

late-late-breaking stories. I'll leave the archives and bookmarks

open indefinitely as a resource, but there's no point to flogging a

dead horse.

 

I never intended to get even this involved; my main motivation was

the flash-crowd load on Metafilter. I certainly don't have the

motivation to keep a group going long after its purpose has

dissipated. Unless someone steps forward to run things, expect this

group to close as above.

 

Dan

 

 

820 From: dacfrazer@...

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:03pm

Subject: Re: french coverage - libération dacfrazer@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tara" wrote:

> quite a good article, btw.

> http://www.liberation.com/multi/actu/20010604/20010605marzc.html

>

> Tara

 

Unfortunately the Libération reporter has got confused about how

the MetaFilter participants tracked down photos of Julie on the Web,

and says that Kelli Swenson stole pictures from a university website

to create Kaycee:

 

"Le personnage de Kaycee est né, à l'origine, sous les clics de

souris de Kelli, une des filles de Debbie Swenson. La gamine manipule

l'ordinateur avec dextérité. Elle a repéré un joli minois

sur le site

d'une équipe universitaire de basket. Elle le copie et le met en

ligne sur un site qu'elle bricole pour sa créature, qu'elle

décide

d'appeler Kaycee Nicole."

 

Aside from the factual error, this misses the important point that

the Swensons know Julie and her family, and that Debbie had concocted

a legitimate reason for borrowing photographs of her. Perhaps

someone

(my knowledge of French isn't quite good enough) could write to

Libération pointing this out.

 

 

David Frazer.

 

 

821 From: "Tara"

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 4:10pm

Subject: Re: Re: french coverage - libération tellme@...

Send Email

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

 

 

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tara" wrote:

> > quite a good article, btw.

> > http://www.liberation.com/multi/actu/20010604/20010605marzc.html

> >

> > Tara

>

> Unfortunately the Libération reporter has got confused about how

> the MetaFilter participants tracked down photos of Julie on the Web,

> and says that Kelli Swenson stole pictures from a university website

> to create Kaycee:

 

I've already emailed the author about this point and a couple of

others (particularly the insinuation about romantic feelings of

Randall's towards Kaycee - which I honestly think I inappropriate).

 

You can find a copy of the email here:

http://climbtothestars.org/writing/mailkaycee.php

 

Tara

Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...

Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org

Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net

 

822 From: "Tara"

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 4:12pm

Subject: Re: Re: french coverage - libération tellme@...

Send Email

 

oops. forgot to mention that the journalist's reply to my mail was -

unfortunately - not very receptive ("thanks for your feedback, but my

wording was appropriate").

 

Tara

Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...

Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org

Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net

 

 

823 From: "Dominique"

Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 11:21pm

Subject: Re: Re: french coverage - libération dominique@...

Send Email

 

Allô! J’arrive en retard comme d’habitude. Mes sincères félicitations à Tara pour avoir si bien expliqué l’histoire. However, I must say that this person wasn’t the only one who thought that poor Randall had fallen a little in love with Kaycee albeit as a brother or not, or as he put in his reply to Tara: “il était réellement mordu de cette fille.” My literal translation for this last remark would be: "He was really stuck on this girl”, and he goes on to say that there is nothing wrong with that. Right or wrong, in all fairness I believe that the reporter is relaying the facts as he saw them after reading BWG’s testimonial. We don’t necessarily have to agree with him. There are a lot of articles such as the one from San Francisco for instance, which compared the hoax with celebrity divorces and the like.

What interests me is how those who fell into it well after the truth was disclosed perceive this story. We can’t force everyone to feel what it was like to be so deceived. We can only hope that it never happens to them.

 

D.

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: Tara

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:10 PM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: french coverage - libération

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

 

 

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tara" wrote:

> > quite a good article, btw.

> > http://www.liberation.com/multi/actu/20010604/20010605marzc.html

> >

> > Tara

>

> Unfortunately the Libération reporter has got confused about how

> the MetaFilter participants tracked down photos of Julie on the Web,

> and says that Kelli Swenson stole pictures from a university website

> to create Kaycee:

 

I've already emailed the author about this point and a couple of

others (particularly the insinuation about romantic feelings of

Randall's towards Kaycee - which I honestly think I inappropriate).

 

You can find a copy of the email here:

http://climbtothestars.org/writing/mailkaycee.php

 

Tara

Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...

Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org

Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

 

 

 

 

824 From: truesolace00@...

Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:18pm

Subject: Moving Forward truesolace00@...

Send Email

 

As of today, I am dejoining the group..

 

It has been an interesting yet emotional ride for me over the past

several weeks but I have come to terms with things.

 

I forgive Debbie for what she has done but it is my prayer that she

will get the help that she needs not only for her but for the sake of

the family who I know is obviously extremely embarassed by this turn

of events. Obviously while she didn't answer down her fully for her

action ultimately she will have to answer to the Lord. I feel sorry

for her because she doesn't seem to understand what she has done.

 

While it is hurtful that the person that you thought you knew is not

the person that they say they are I will not close my heart because

of this...Debbie would win if I did that. Instead I will continue to

love but I know that before I go forward I have to go forward with

the spirit of disearnment and take each person to the Lord in prayer.

 

My prayer is that through all of this is that we can all go forward.

My heart goes to my CC Fam, John (Halcyon), Randall Van Der Woning.

Who were affected deeply by this charade. May we all have peace to

carry on but to continue to be a light but also stay true.

 

Take care guys..it has been real God Bless.

 

 

825 From:

Date: Sun May 13, 2001 1:08am

Subject: Re: Group Status jrs@...

Send Email

 

I'd just like to say thanks to Dan for organizing everything on the Yahoo end of things. Also a big thanks to everyone that was there in the beginning uncovering this mess. I know that I wasn't the only one that spent a lot of all nighters working on this stuff.

 

My heart goes out to John Styn, Randall van der Woning, his bro, Audra Lea, Julie Fullbright, and everyone else that got burned severely. I feel very sorry for all the people that were sucked in to this whole mess. What can you say.. sometimes life just sucks. You live, you learn, you move on.

 

 

When my life slows down a bit, I'm going to do my best to form my links site into an actual story about what has happened. I know that it's going to burn some people to see it. But, that way people can learn from it, in the hopes of preventing it in the future. Lets hope anyways...

 

Thanks, and good luck to everyone in the future.

 

J.R. Salzman

 

www.bentbrokenme.com

Kaycee's Story - www.logboy.com/jr/main.asp

 

 

 

 

827 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:26pm

Subject: More NYTimes Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

An editorial piece on the subject is in today's NY Times:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/14/technology/14REAL.html

 

Saundra

 

 

828 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:28pm

Subject: BBC World Radio Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

BBC World Radio will be running coverage of the story; starting next

Tuesday or so, it will be available online for you to hear at:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/index.shtml

 

The program it's on is "Science View" with Violet Violin.

 

Saundra

 

 

829 From: saundra@...

Date: Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:29pm

Subject: Sydney Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

The story from the UK Guardian ran in the Syndey Morning Herald on

Monday, June 12th; however you now have to pay to access the archives

to see it. The paper is located at:

 

http://www.smh.com.au/

 

Saundra

 

 

830 From: "Steve Lareau"

Date: Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:54am

Subject: Re: More NYTimes Coverage hilltopdesign@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

>

> An editorial piece on the subject is in today's NY Times:

>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/14/technology/14REAL.html

 

Haha! Ya beat me to it- I was going to post it when I had a chance.

Guess ya gotta be quick around here!

 

 

 

 

Steve Lareau,

Hilltop Design

Clinton, Tennessee

http://www.hilltopdesign.com

 

 

831 From: "Steve Lareau"

Date: Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:56am

Subject: Re: More NYTimes Coverage hilltopdesign@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

>

> An editorial piece on the subject is in today's NY Times:

>

> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/14/technology/14REAL.html

 

 

Haha! I was going to post the link here, but you beat me to it! Gotta

be faster acting I guess..

 

Steve Lareau,

Hilltop Design

Clinton, Tennessee

http://www.hilltopdesign.com

 

 

832 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:35am

Subject: List Status: Announcements Only dhartung@...

Send Email

 

As indicated last week, with discussion all but nonexistent and news

limited to trail-end coverage, I'm changing the list configuration to

remove open posting. All posts will be moderated by me, limited

chiefly to announcements of news articles.

 

Thanks for participating. Show's over.

 

{Cue Blade Runner hovercar blaring "Move ... along ... move ...

along ....}

 

 

833 From: "elizAbeth"

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 7:53am

Subject: brief mention here.... amazingjettgrrrl@...

834 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:06pm

Subject: Salon Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

Today's Salon is running an article about online philanthropy, and

opens the story (and frames it) within the context of the Kaycee Hoax.

It's located here:

 

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/06/19/dawson/index.html

 

Saundra

 

 

835 From: saundra@...

Date: Wed Jun 20, 2001 2:15pm

Subject: BBC World Radio Program saundra@...

Send Email

 

Violet Berlin's World Radio program about the story is online now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/index.shtml

 

Choose "Science View" from the pull down menu, it'll pop up a window

where you can listen. Seems to be Real Media only.

 

Saundra

 

 

836 From: canasite@...

Date: Tue Jun 26, 2001 3:32pm

Subject: Sunday Times UK & IRL coverage canasite@...

Send Email

 

Danny O'Brien, a columnist in the 'Doors' technological supplement to

the Times, devoted his full A5 sized 'This virtual life' column to

the Kaycee Nicole story. You can read the article in full online by

going to www.sundaytimes.co.uk, clicking on 'Doors' in the contents

on the left of the screen, and then clicking on 'This Virtual Life'.

After the 1st July 2001, click on the back issues link, select back

issues, and search for 24th June 2001. Then follow the same

directions as above.

 

 

837 From: "Lia Bulaong"

Date: Sat Jun 30, 2001 0:58pm

Subject: brief mention in Village Voice article me@...

Send Email

 

Hi everyone,

 

The Kaycee saga gets a very brief mention (implying that readers would

already be familiar with the story) in an article about Munchausen by Internet:

Munchausen by Internet Breeds a Generation of Fakers

Cybersickness, by Francine Russo

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0126/russo.shtml

Cheers,

Lia

 

http://cheesedip.com

 

 

838 From: dhartung@...

Date: Sat Jul 7, 2001 6:17am

Subject: Puppetmaster dhartung@...

Send Email

 

Some of you may have followed Ernie of littleyellowdifferent.com's

previous two "reality-based" weblog games, SurvivorBlog and SBlog2.

He's resurrected the basic concept for another round, but this time

varied the format in a way that slightly resembles the CBS series The

Mole. The game is called Puppetmaster, and of the 12 contestants (6

male, 6 female), one is a Puppet: a fictional creation of the

Puppetmaster, who is one of the 11 remaining players. Players,

including the Puppet and Puppetmaster, will interact via a weblog

format, and answer quizzes about each other. Losers are eliminated.

The object of the game is to get to the "final four", really, final

two /real/ contestants, whereupon a final quiz will choose the winner.

 

The concept is explicitly based on Kaycee and Debbie.

 

http://www.littleyellowdifferent.com/puppetmaster/

 

 

839 From: saundra@...

Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:32pm

Subject: Yahoo! Magazine saundra@...

Send Email

 

This month's Yahoo! Magazine has an article about the hoax by Angela

Gunn. I haven't read the article, but apparently it's on page 66.

 

Saundra

 

 

840 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 0:55am

Subject: Re: Yahoo! Magazine matt@...

Send Email

 

At 03:32 PM 7/15/2001 +0000, you wrote:

>This month's Yahoo! Magazine has an article about the hoax by Angela

>Gunn. I haven't read the article, but apparently it's on page 66.

 

Kaycee was also mentioned this past weekend on CNN's CNNdotcom show:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/cnndotcom/

 

in a story about how they were duped by the recent craigslist.org "gorgeous

guy" hoax, and how similar hoaxes had occurred.

 

Matt

 

 

841 From: dhartung@...

Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:41pm

Subject: Faking It: AskMe's 15-Year-Old Law Expert dhartung@...

Send Email

 

The New York Times Magazine has a story on Marcus Arnold, a teenager

who developed a persona on AskMe.com to give his (very good) answers

to legal questions, despite his lack of legal training or even

reference books. After coming clean about his age, a storm developed

on the board, where he had become the No. 3 ranked (by satisfied

inquirers) legal expert, well above hundreds of practicing attorneys.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/15/magazine/15INTERNET.html?

pagewanted=all

 

One passage in particular may have overstated its case, but has some

relevant insights:

 

"There was something else familiar about the game Marcus was playing,

but it took me a while to put my finger on it. He was using the

Internet the way adults often use their pasts. The passage of time

allows older people to remember who they were as they would like to

have been. Young people do not enjoy access to that particular escape

route from their selves -- their pasts are still unpleasantly

present -- and so they tend to turn the other way and imagine

themselves into some future adult world. The sentiment that powers

their fantasies goes by different names -- hope, ambition, idealism --

but at bottom it is nostalgia. Nostalgia for the future. These days

nostalgia for the future is a lot more fashionable than the

traditional kind. And the Internet has made it possible to act on the

fantasy in whole new ways."

 

The article goes on to note that the legal profession has reached a

point where its carefully hoarded knowledge is much more easily

available, due to the internet (though without noting that the

medical profession has faced this problem for a couple of years now).

 

Oddly, after the disclosure of his age, Marcus leapt from No. 3 to

No. 1 on the rankings.

 

 

842 From: saundra@...

Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 9:55pm

Subject: The Return of Kaycee Nicole? saundra@...

Send Email

 

"Before I was an Angel...

I was my sister's flower:

God, Himself, hand-picked me,

And gave me Angel power.

 

Now God has many Angels That He trains in Angel pools:

We become His eyes, and ears, and hands

We become His special tools."

 

Sound familiar? I got a letter today from someone who frequents the

United Devices Cancer Support Forum, after sitting for a while on her

suspicions that "GlenEllen" the author of the above poem, is perhaps

Debbie Swenson.

 

GlenEllen constantly posts "other people's stories" memorializing

cancer victims, claims herself to be suffering from injuries from a

serious accident, registered the same month that Kaycee "died" and was

outed, and uses only an anonymous sketch in place of a photograph of

herself. Her interests are listed as: Trying to get better, Ferrets,

Making People HAPPY, helping people everyday. When she's been asked to

lay off the constant pleadings for prayers, she gets defensive.

 

It could be someone completely different- evidence against is that she

claims to be in SanFran, and has a Pacbell ISP account. There IS a

picture of her with ferrets on her listed website (not that it ever

stopped Debbie to use other people's pics.) It could be utter

coincidence that they are so similar. Still, when a total stranger

goes out of her way to seek out the people who originally worked the

Kaycee Investigation, I figure I'm at least obligated to share the

information.

 

The URL for the forum is: http://forum.ud.com

 

Some of GlenEllen's Posts:

 

http://forum.ud.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000122

http://forum.ud.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000118

http://forum.ud.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=000120

 

(Basically, go straight down the "Cancer Stories and Community"

threads, she's posted in nearly every single one.)

 

Submitted for your consideration.

 

Saundra

 

 

843 From: dhartung@...

Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 11:19pm

Subject: Case of Munchausen by E-mail Snags Name Authors DanHartung

Offline

Send Email

 

Armistead Maupin, among others, were apparently -- there's no proof --

taken in by a young "cancer boy" with literary abilities, which may

have been his mother's doing:

 

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/12540

 

 

844 From: "Dan Hartung"

Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 11:58pm

Subject: Another Kaycee in the making? DanHartung

Offline

Send Email

 

This arrived at a mail address I don't often check, sorry:

 

--- Amanda Klink wrote:

> From: "Amanda Klink"

> Subject: Another Kaycee in the making?

> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:16:13 -0500

> > Mr. Hartung,

> > I was following the "Kaycee incident" when it happened,

> mostly just out of curiousity since I never talked to

> any of the people (fictional or real) who were involved.

> While surfing, I came across the following weblog which

> suggests that someone else was involved in the hoax:

>

http://tablescraps.blogspot.com/?/2001_10_07_tablescraps_archive.html

> Since I had nothing better to do on my lunch break, I

> followed the web ring (the one labeled "Kafaei's web

> ring") and found a variety of characters, including

> the "Billy"( http://billy.blogspot.com/ ) that Kaycee

> mentioned in her last weblog. Out of the ring, one

> person is dead, one has breast cancer, one has

> lukemia, and one is a recovered lukemia patient.

> They are all either in medical school or are doctors.

> A lot of them have "donation" links. They also

> mention the "Jana" person.

> > The reason I'm emailing you is simply that I don't know

> who else can get the word out if someone is playing

> on people's sympathies again. I know you started

> the Yahoo group and were one of the people who helped

> put together the pieces of the Kaycee mystery, so if

> you think that this is worth passing on, please do.

> I'd hate to see more people go through what everyone

> else did a few months ago.

>

> Thank you,

> Amanda

 

--

Dan Hartung | dan AT dhartung DOT com

http://www.lakefx.nu/ -- Lake Effect Weblog

CHICAGOSTORIES: post yours at chicagostories.org

"If dancing naked and playing the bongo drums

is wrong, then I don't wanna be right." -- Fred Pyen

 

 

845 From: "DanHartung"

Date: Thu Dec 6, 2001 5:21am

Subject: Retraction DanHartung

Offline

Send Email

 

On Nov. 21st I posted an e-mail I'd received some days before that

from a reader who referred to a post at a weblog which insinuated

certain bloggers were fictional.

 

The original poster has updated his weblog to retract and explain

those statements:

 

http://tablescraps.blogspot.com/2001_12_02_tablescraps_archive.html#7659455

 

Essentially it looks like some acrid in-jokes among friends were taken

seriously by someone outside the loop.

 

I regret that this list was itself hoaxed. I didn't have the time to

personally research the assertions, a risk I hadn't really considered,

but should have. My apologies to the people who've (literally) lost

sleep over this.

 

Dan

 

 

846 From: "DanHartung"

Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 6:49pm

Subject: ABC program on cancer hoax DanHartung

Offline

Send Email

 

Charlene Zimmerman, an Iowa housewife, appeared on TV programs

including Oprah, was given thousands of dollars in donations and other

assistance, and was expected to live only six months. Years later,

people feel scammed, and most of her story has fallen apart.

 

<http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/Downtown/Daily

News/downtown_nocancer_020320.html>

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