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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kaycee-Nicole

 

kaycee-nicole · Kaycee Nicole Forum

 

1 - 30 of 846

 

1 From: dhartung@...

Date: Mon May 21, 2001 11:43pm

Subject: Welcome, Background, and Introduction dhartung@...

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Once there was a girl named Kaycee Nicole.

 

She was nineteen and full of life, yet at the same time struggling

with leukemia. She had a weblog called Living Colours, that was seen

as inspiring or cloying by turns. She had friends throughout the web

community, starting with College Club and extending to Webby Award

winners. There were gift exchanges and phone calls. Then, alas, there

was a turn for the worse; one day in May, she was reported to have

died of an aneurysm.

 

That was when things really got bad. Some people had suspicions,

going back months, that they had been careful not to voice, since

everywhere there was nothing but praise for this brave young woman.

In the space of a few days, on weblogs and especially Metafilter,

those suspicions were aired, people began checking into things, and

it all fell apart: Debbie, who was claimed to be Kaycee Nicole's

mother, told the person hosting her weblog that she had not been

truthful and Kaycee did not exist -- that she was a composite, a

construct. Of her online friends, some believed they had known the

young woman personally for over two years. But it turned out that

nobody had ever actually met her, and the real world links amounted

to little more than a post office box in Newton, KS and an IP address

in nearby Peabody.

 

This confession seemd only to raise more questions than it answered.

If there were phone calls, who was on the line? If there were gifts

or money sent, where did it go? Metafilter readers were especially

keen to track down the truth behind the hoax, knowing some of the

people who were duped very well. Others arrived to join the fray.

Many people didn't get the news, which sprung up on a weekend, until

Monday -- and traffic quickly brought that server down.

 

This group is open for any discussion related to the Kaycee Nicole

situation, from personal experiences to outsider opinions. If people

want to continue the investigation to uncover the truth, they may do

so here. What went wrong? How can we avoid making the same mistakes

again, or is the relative anonymity of the net fated to give rise to

more and more hoaxers?

 

One last note. I'm starting this group to create a safety valve.

Metafilter was shuddering under the load of 300+ message threads,

reloaded for each preview and post, checked multiple times a day.

Metafilter is also very much in the public eye, and is probably the

wrong place for continued discussions. People are invited here so

that those with an interest have a place to post, and those without

an interest or a desire to move on may continue to use the resources

of a place like Metafilter without it crashing. I am much more in the

latter group. I will take applications for moderating this group, so

let me know.

 

 

2 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:28am

Subject: debbie sarapture@...

Send Email

 

I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her

to post some sort of explanation in here. That's the least she can do.

I am somewhat new to the whole Kaycee thing, unlike others who had

"known" her for months (years?) and I still was shocked and crushed

when I heard of the hoax. I can only imagine how those who spoke with

"her" regularly felt. I don't have any contact info for debbie, or I

would do this myself. I think it's important though for closure's sake

that she come in here and address everyone. Many, many people have been

hurt by her rouse.

 

 

Just my .02

 

ps did anyone else take not of the English spelling conventions in both

kaycee's and debbie's blogs? kinda odd for folks from the midwest,

dontcha think??

 

 

3 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:37am

Subject: Re: debbie phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

> I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone)

> debbie and ask her

 

i think that phoning "debbie" would be a mistake at this point. if

she is indeed debbie swenson in peabody, kansas, then she has a

family we should consider. i'm guessing that her husband and

children had no idea this was going on and they're probably just

learning about it now. i think we should respect her family's

privacy for a time. i know that many people have emailed her wanting

answers, and as far as i know, no one has gotten a response.

 

christine

 

 

4 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:42am

Subject: Re: debbie matt@...

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On 12:28 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:

>I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her

>to post some sort of explanation in here.

 

Actually, I was worried about any sort of group coming together to exchange

stories about interactions or gifts they sent, because Debbie could very

well be here (you or I could be debbie).

 

This entire saga brings up the lack of authentication schemes on the web.

There is no way to prove anyone is anyone else, how the hell are we going

to let people vote for presidents on the web safely and free of fraud?

 

There's no authentication.

 

>That's the least she can do.

 

Actually, the least she could do is nothing, and continue duping people in

the future with new stories. I've run across a couple incredibly messed up

people in my life that lived in worlds so full of lies and deceit that it

was impossible to know from the outside what the real truth was about

anything. I think for someone screwed up enough to do this, they may not

even know what the truth is anymore.

 

Matt

 

 

5 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:43am

Subject: Bookmarks dhartung@...

Send Email

 

Wow! Less than an hour old and over 16 members!

 

Again, I'm disclaiming any real expertise in this situation. My

knowledge of Kaycee was limited to what got posted at Metafilter. But

I'm trying to pull together most of the relevant links from the

various Metafilter threads into the Bookmarks section here. If you're

coming from there, you've probably seen them before, but it's good to

have them all in one place.

 

If you know of any personal webpages that have commented on the

situation, *especially* first-hand accounts, those may be added as

well. Please try to add a summary note so we know where we're going

and why.

 

 

6 From: litlnemo@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:54am

Subject: Batten down the hatches! litlnemo@...

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7 new members to this list n the less than 5 minutes since I

joined. This is going to get busy.

 

This is fascinating, for someone like me who never heard of

Kaycee until the death notice on MeFi last week, to watch the way

all of this is happening. (Was it incredibly cynical of me to

immediately wonder if she was real, even then? A few of us had

been discussing false Net personas just the night before, and I

immediately wondered if Kaycee was an example.)

 

I think I'll just return to lurking now. This couldn't get much

stranger.

 

I wonder how many new members have joined while I was

writing this.

 

 

7 From: "Mark Bakalor"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:02am

Subject: Re: Bookmarks mark@...

Send Email

 

I'll add one of my pages to the list:

 

http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html

 

Mark Bakalor

 

 

8 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:09am

Subject: Re: Bookmarks phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

i'm mirroring some of the sites on my server. only a few there so

far, but more to come.

 

http://www.strangecat.org/kaycee/

 

christine

 

 

9 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:16am

Subject: hey kids... centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

just wanted to let you know i'm here.

 

i tried to call the minister again to see if he found anything out.

no answer all day, though that's not unusual as clergy typically have

monday off.

 

i also tried to call debbie. there was no answer all day and the

phone has been busy all evening. either she's online, talking to

someone or has it off the hook.

 

i debated with myself and have come to the conclusion that i have no

problem with calling her. if this were someone i knew in real life

that had done something questionable and i thought could use some

help i'd approach them. why should this be any different?

 

-d.

 

http://www.centrs.com

 

 

10 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:23am

Subject: Proof That Debbie Swenson is Involved mail@...

Send Email

 

I keep reading that there's no proof Debbie Swenson is involved.

That's not the case. As I confirmed in a phone call Monday morning to

the post office in Newton, Kansas, the box used by Kaycee's Web site

was rented by Debbie Swenson of Peabody, Kansas.

 

Here's the address she used until closing the box in March:

 

Living Colours

P.O. Box 566

Newton, Kansas, U.S.A.

67114-0566

 

For those who don't know me, I was a newspaper reporter for more than

10 years at the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Because Debbie was doing

business on her Web site (selling T-shirts and coffee mugs) and the

P.O. box was the only thing offered as a business address, the post

office can release information about the renter if it chooses.

 

Also, I have heard from two people who spoke to "Kaycee" on the

phone. One -- who sent items to Kaycee -- sent me Debbie Swenson's

Peabody, Kansas, address before it was posted on MetaFilter, and the

other said that he was told their names were Debbie Swenson and

Kaycee Nicole Swenson.

 

 

11 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:24am

Subject: Re: hey kids... mail@...

Send Email

 

Glad you're here, Centrs. How did you find Troy Manley, the Swensons'

pastor in Oklahoma?

 

 

12 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:29am

Subject: Re: hey kids... phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

im wondering where the pastors name was found, too. maybe by calling

411?

 

OT: rogers - i have a friend at the star telegram - bud kennedy, know

him?

 

 

13 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:32am

Subject: Re: hey kids... phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

i found this info on the baptists churches near newton and peabody:

 

First Baptist Church

Sixth and Poplar, Newton - 316.283.3610

 

First Baptist Church of Peabody

Third and Vine, Peabody - 316.983.2879

 

First Baptist Church of Sedgwick

Lincoln and Fourth, Sedgwick - 316.772.5606

 

 

14 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:38am

Subject: pastor troy + Check Metafilter captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

Funny, I only have this stupid yahoo account so I could read

Cloudmaker updates. (Looks like that'll pay off with an advance

screening, too, woot!)

 

Pastor Troy's name was on a picture on the Swenson family page, along

with the name of the Church.

 

Crazy new theory metafilter update with a new person being called out:

http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85741

 

 

15 From: "Eve"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:40am

Subject: Re: hey kids... angelwng@...

Send Email

 

The pastor's name is on the swenson home page - if you check Kelli

Swenson's N'Sync page, you'll also find a link to their church, with

a poem written by Debbie Swenson that looks very familier to one

on "Living Colours"

 

I don't have those url's handy, but if anyone wants them, I'll dig

them up.

 

Does anyone remember or have a copy of the picture that was posted on

Debbie's "Journey toward the rainbow" blog of herself, colorized

green and on a shamrock for St. Patrick's day? comparing that to the

Swenson's home page pic might be helpful.

 

 

16 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:41am

Subject: Re: hey kids... dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> How did you find Troy Manley, the Swensons'

> pastor in Oklahoma?

 

The Switchboard page has a picture of the First Baptist Church sign,

which prominently features Rev. Manley's name. Note that this is the

First Baptist Church in OKLAHOMA, where they were living at the time,

not the Peabody church.

 

 

17 From: ewwgene@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:45am

Subject: I was a long time reader. ewwgene@...

Send Email

 

I'd been reading Kaycee's blog for about a year and a half now. I

thought she was real. Lots of her posts brought tears to my eyes.

 

I have no problem with this being a hoax. It makes the whole shabang

a lot more interesting. I've been following all weekend, and was

constantly refreshing all morning- glad i skipped classes today.

 

 

Now that all this info is seeping in, i want the WHOLE story. i want

someone to record the phonecall to Debbie and post it on the web.

Scandals are always fasinating to me.

 

 

18 From: Rory Ewins

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:49am

Subject: Poem from KCsCoolMom rory@...

Send Email

 

CollegeClub seems to be getting MetaFiltered, so here's the Google cache:

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:33aa01f810cd5721:home.collegeclub.com/Kutebabe/files/KCsCafe.txt+KCsCoolMom&hl=en

 

If we're looking for Debbie's (?) motivation, it's hard to go past

the last verse:

 

At Kaycee's Cafe; she knows the tale of every lonely tear,

And can unburden all the patrons of insecurities and fear.

From the table in the corner another customer departs,

Knowing how to mend the aching in their heart.

Sometimes it can be difficult to turn despairing thoughts to other things,

Until you order the "daily special", delivered by angelic wings.

Yes; Kaycee's Cafe, has the best to offer you

It is served up with a smile, without a doubt it's true,

Peer into the window of her heart, that's all you have to do.

 

 

 

('That's one Angel Wings for table 7!')

 

 

19 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:48am

Subject: Re: debbie sarapture@...

Send Email

 

You're right Matt. In my anger, that hadn't occurred to me...It's

probably best just to let sleeping dogs lie as it were. (no pun).

 

Sara

(I'm not Debbie. I swear.)

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> On 12:28 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:

> >I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her

> >to post some sort of explanation in here.

>

> Actually, I was worried about any sort of group coming together to exchange

> stories about interactions or gifts they sent, because Debbie could very

> well be here (you or I could be debbie).

>

> This entire saga brings up the lack of authentication schemes on the web.

> There is no way to prove anyone is anyone else, how the hell are we going

> to let people vote for presidents on the web safely and free of fraud?

>

> There's no authentication.

>

> >That's the least she can do.

>

> Actually, the least she could do is nothing, and continue duping people in

> the future with new stories. I've run across a couple incredibly messed up

> people in my life that lived in worlds so full of lies and deceit that it

> was impossible to know from the outside what the real truth was about

> anything. I think for someone screwed up enough to do this, they may not

> even know what the truth is anymore.

>

> Matt

 

 

20 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:55am

Subject: the pastor centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

i found the pastor from kelli's site. one page has a list of links at

the bottom, one being to gracemont baptist church. if you click

through that link a page last updated in 1998 shows a church

bulletin. debbie was the secretary at the church for 3 years. i

assume she was attempting to keep a weekly online church page. it had

the name of the pastor and the phone number to the church on it.

 

i called, he answered, sounded like he was in a hurry and mentioned

they were trying to get the power back on before evening services. he

asked me several times, "now WHO are you?" but eventually seemed to

get what was going on. he seemed really stunned and reiterated that

he simply could not imagine debbie doing something like that unless

something very tragic had happened.

 

he asked for my name, phone number and address - which i gave him,

and said he would try to contact debbie and failing that would find

someone who could reach her.

 

 

21 From: Jon Sullivan

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:02am

Subject: sign up jon@...

Send Email

 

sign up

 

Jon Sullivan http://www.jonsullivan.com/

Public PGP key: http://www.jonsullivan.com/contact/pgp.txt

 

 

22 From: Rory Ewins

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:05am

Subject: CollegeClub connection rory@...

Send Email

 

Jim of JimFormation has raised his suspicions:

 

http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85741

 

One point in favour of the college connection: seems that the obvious

answer to 'how could I hear two different women on the phone?' is

'roommates'.

 

 

23 From: Jon Sullivan

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:09am

Subject: New pictures jon@...

Send Email

 

I don't think these pictures have been posted before. They aren't of people

but Kaycee is claiming she took them.

 

I got to them via a web log of someone in San Diego who talked about

communicating with Kaycee a lot. Then on this page:

http://flamtap.com/weblog/archives/00000051.html

 

He links to an MSN community that is put together by "Kaycee"

 

The pictures are here:

http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Community=KCruisin&ID_Topic=1

 

Nothing big, but lots of possible cues.

 

Jon Sullivan http://www.jonsullivan.com/

Public PGP key: http://www.jonsullivan.com/contact/pgp.txt

 

 

24 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:09am

Subject: Re: New pictures -- dead end captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

I think I saw these this weekend. There's no personal information

there, and most of the photos look stock to me.

 

Unless we know someone who works at MSN who wouldn't mind opening

up the "KCruisin" account.

 

 

 

 

> He links to an MSN community that is put together by "Kaycee"

>

> The pictures are here:

> http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?

action=get_album&ID_Community=KCruisin&ID_Topic=1

>

> Nothing big, but lots of possible cues.

 

 

25 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:19am

Subject: ashley centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

i just posted on the other thread that jimfo might be on to

something. "kaycee" mentions going to visit "ashley" in miami where

she just moved to from seattle. peter voutov mentions in his journal

last year that he hadn't heard from "kasey" in a while and hadn't

received a phone number to seattle in his email.

 

how would debbie fit into this though? we know she has to be involved

somehow due to the physical location of the computer in peabody and

the p.o. box nearby.

 

 

26 From: velocityiseverything@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:22am

Subject: Could it be the true purpose... velocityiseverything@...

Send Email

 

of the hoax is to study the aftermath?

 

While quite new to all this, I tipped Drudge about it when I saw one

of her big boosters admit he had been fooled in his blog and was in

turn tipped by someone on MetaFilter that this all was a hoax.

 

Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a

master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the

fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.

 

This can only get better!

 

"On the internet, no one knows you're a dog..."

 

 

27 From: tif@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:24am

Subject: Re: ashley tif@...

Send Email

 

Or it could be that "Ashley" is just another personality here...

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., centrsgrrl@y... wrote:

> i just posted on the other thread that jimfo might be on to

> something. "kaycee" mentions going to visit "ashley" in miami where

> she just moved to from seattle. peter voutov mentions in his

journal

> last year that he hadn't heard from "kasey" in a while and hadn't

> received a phone number to seattle in his email.

>

> how would debbie fit into this though? we know she has to be

involved

> somehow due to the physical location of the computer in peabody and

> the p.o. box nearby.

 

 

28 From: Caren Wallace

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:39am

Subject: (No subject) caren@...

Send Email

 

i just joined :D

 

 

29 From: caren@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:41am

Subject: Re: hey kids... caren@...

Send Email

 

I'm glad someone is calling Debbie, I wanted to do it myself

earlier. I would like to know the truth. Also about the pastor, let

us know if you find anything, and Thank you.

 

I'm also wondering why noone who was so close with Kaycee is coming

out with any information, surely they would know more personal

details, phone numbers, etc...that would answer all of the questions

that have been raised, but noone is stepping forward. I would really

like to see this end nicely and find out what really is going on..

 

sigh.

 

-Caren

 

 

30 From: "Eve"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:49am

Subject: CollegeClub Club angelwng@...

Send Email

 

I think some interesting trails might be found in the

Kaycee's Friendly Support Club at CollegeClub:

 

http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/display.asp?ClubID=43917

 

I saw that kaycee11 logged on today (she has the same profile as

kutebabe) as has KCsCoolMom = Debbie

 

the list of club members is interesting - I haven't looked at to many

yet, but wanted to pass this link along for someone with a day off

tomorrow who could dig a little deeper.

 

And, yes, tropicalmist is a member.

 

31 From: "Jon Sullivan"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:50am

Subject: Link to the church? jon@...

Send Email

 

Can someone help me out here?

 

Clearly on the Swenon family homepage the name on the church sign has been added in Photoshop (I opened it and zoomed in - it's straight text tool), but centrs says there's a link on that page to the church that he got the number for "Troy Manley" from.

 

But I can't find the link to the church anywhere on the family's page.

 

Just trying to follow the chain.

 

 

32 From: caren@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:51am

Subject: Re: CollegeClub Club caren@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Eve" wrote:

> I think some interesting trails might be found in the

> Kaycee's Friendly Support Club at CollegeClub:

>

> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/display.asp?ClubID=43917

>

> I saw that kaycee11 logged on today (she has the same profile as

> kutebabe) as has KCsCoolMom = Debbie

>

> the list of club members is interesting - I haven't looked at to

many

> yet, but wanted to pass this link along for someone with a day off

> tomorrow who could dig a little deeper.

>

> And, yes, tropicalmist is a member.

 

I pointed out kaycee11 on the metafilter thread earlier today, looked

a bit funny to me, but also looked as if someone could have done it

just to make us find it. But the funny thing is that "kaycee11" is

listed as on of "Kutebabe"'s friends....

 

 

33 From: caren@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:52am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? caren@...

Send Email

 

The link to the church appeared on Kelli Swenson's Nsync fan site.

If you want to find it, look in the bookmarks, it is listed.

Geocities site.

 

Hope this helps

 

-C.

 

 

34 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:52am

Subject: Adopt-A-Mom? dhartung@...

Send Email

 

One more odd note. The kaycee11 identity on CC, which was previously

listed as a "friend" of kutebabe (the known Kaycee identity), and

which has the full name Kaycee Swenson (not known if this is new), is

a member of three clubs on CC. One is Kaycee's Support Club

 

http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=43917

 

which has Kutebabe as a co-moderator, and the other is Adopt-A-Mom

 

http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=135699

 

which has KCsCoolMom (the known Debbie identity) as a co-moderator.

Is this underlining a theory that there's a real Kaycee out there,

who adopted Debbie as a "mom"?

 

Oy. Wow, almost 50 members. Have fun, y'all, but behave. I'm going to

bed.

 

 

35 From: Caren Wallace

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:54am

Subject: Re: Adopt-A-Mom? caren@...

Send Email

 

Weird isn't it? Just too much of a coincedence, BTW. She just joined

today, "kaycee11" I mean. I found that earlier this afternoon while

looking through the CollegeClub site, and saw that she was the newest

member and had joined the same day.

 

On Tue, 22 May 2001 dhartung@... wrote:

 

> One more odd note. The kaycee11 identity on CC, which was previously

> listed as a "friend" of kutebabe (the known Kaycee identity), and

> which has the full name Kaycee Swenson (not known if this is new), is

> a member of three clubs on CC. One is Kaycee's Support Club

>

> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=43917

>

> which has Kutebabe as a co-moderator, and the other is Adopt-A-Mom

>

> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=135699

>

> which has KCsCoolMom (the known Debbie identity) as a co-moderator.

> Is this underlining a theory that there's a real Kaycee out there,

> who adopted Debbie as a "mom"?

>

> Oy. Wow, almost 50 members. Have fun, y'all, but behave. I'm going to

> bed.

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>

>

>

 

 

36 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:57am

Subject: church link centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

sorry guys, i'm a real lazy-ass when it comes to links:

 

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/church1.html

 

 

37 From: "Tiffany Ring"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:58am

Subject: RE: Link to the church? tif@...

Send Email

 

Yep - it's on the "pix.html" page on the NSync page - let me grab the url:

 

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/church1.html

 

Tiffany Ring-Mulroy

  • Deco-Rations Design

 

  • Intellectual Suicide

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Jon Sullivan [mailto:jon@jonsullivan.com]

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:51 PM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Link to the church?

 

 

Can someone help me out here?

 

Clearly on the Swenon family homepage the name on the church sign has been added in Photoshop (I opened it and zoomed in - it's straight text tool), but centrs says there's a link on that page to the church that he got the number for "Troy Manley" from.

 

But I can't find the link to the church anywhere on the family's page.

 

Just trying to follow the chain.

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

38 From: "Jon Sullivan"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:00am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? jon@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., caren@o... wrote:

> The link to the church appeared on Kelli Swenson's Nsync fan site.

> If you want to find it, look in the bookmarks, it is listed.

 

Yes, but.......

 

It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street address matches, but not the phone number.

 

So if the name "Troy Manley" is faked, and the phone numbers don't match..... who did centrs talk too?

 

 

39 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:05am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

> It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number

for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-

2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street

address matches, but not the phone number.

 

 

you mean the way they're formatted, as in (area code) phone-number

rather than areacode-phone-number?

 

check this out:

 

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5293/geobook.html

 

"Tommy & Debbie Swenson - 09/07/98 03:58:57

My Email:tswenson@...

What is your favorite color?: Blue

Comments:

Hi from Tom & Debbie from down the street in gracemont. Kelli is

almost 13 year old now. She hi to. Email us. bye. God Bless."

 

doesnt mean much, except its the same email as on kellis site, so it

verifies gracemont, if that hasnt been verified already.

 

 

40 From: caren@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:07am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? caren@...

Send Email

 

Unfortunately that e-mail is no longer active, I tried sending mail

to them, and to the yahoo account that is listed earlier this

afternoon.

 

-C.

 

 

41 From: "Jon Sullivan"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:08am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? jon@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:

> Yes, but.......

 

Sorry. My bad. Ignore Jon. Brain playing tricks.........

 

 

42 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:13am

Subject: church in gracemont centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

he answered the phone, "brother troy!" i'm sure he couldn't have been

expecting a call from any of us. that link was hard to find! i kept

going back and could never remember how i found that link.

 

 

43 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:14am

Subject: bye centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

ok. i must log off for tonight and get some work done before i get

fired. see ya!

 

 

44 From: "Jon Smith"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:15am

Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., velocityiseverything@y... wrote:

> of the hoax is to study the aftermath?

>

> While quite new to all this, I tipped Drudge about it when I saw

one

> of her big boosters admit he had been fooled in his blog and was in

> turn tipped by someone on MetaFilter that this all was a hoax.

>

> Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a

> master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the

> fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.

 

Unless the person writing the thesis or dissertation is getting his

or her degree from Sally struthers U. Accepting any social science

research conducted in such an unethical way would be dangerous to a

university in every possible way imaginable. You'd lose federal

funding, your rep would be shot, at least one dean and a president

would and a dept. chair would be fired, etc.

Ray

 

 

45 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:18am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:

regarding phone number formats

>

> Sorry. My bad. Ignore Jon. Brain playing tricks.........

 

Even the most prosaic differences now appear sinister. There's a

crack in the sidewalk outside my door .... *where did it come from?*

 

We have to be careful lest we start suspecting each other ....

 

 

46 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:19am

Subject: Re: Link to the church? mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:

[[It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number

for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-

2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street

address matches, but not the phone number.]]

 

It seems legit to me. The phone number on the Gracemont Baptist

Church page at Geocities matches the one in Yahoo Yellow Pages for

the church in Gracemont, Okla. One non-conspiratorial reason why you

would use PhotoShop to put Troy Manley's name on the church sign is

if he replaced someone else as pastor. Debbie certainly seems to be

fond of bad PhotoShop editing of photographs.

 

 

47 From: "simply caren."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:19am

Subject: hop into the chatroom.. caren@...

Send Email

 

if you don't want to clutter up the msgs, like i see that i'm doing

lol.

 

 

48 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:23am

Subject: No Jon Smith raysmj@...

Send Email

 

I don't what that was about. Never used this thing before. And I'm

22? It's Ray Mikell, 34. I wouldn't make up a last name no one (or at

least a few who are in-the-know) could pronounce, and I'd love to be

22 again, 'cept for the part about the cast.

 

 

49 From: tif@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:25am

Subject: Geocities acct all pictures gone? tif@...

 

Is it just me or did they just disappear?

 

 

50 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:27am

Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Smith" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., velocityiseverything@y... wrote:

> > of the hoax is to study the aftermath?

snip

> > Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a

> > master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the

> > fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.

>

> Unless the person writing the thesis or dissertation is getting his

> or her degree from Sally struthers U. Accepting any social science

> research conducted in such an unethical way would be dangerous to a

> university in every possible way imaginable. You'd lose federal

> funding, your rep would be shot, at least one dean and a president

> would and a dept. chair would be fired, etc.

 

Indeed. See the creators' account of the infamous Stanford Prison

Experiment:

http://www.prisonexp.org/

 

Briefly, the experiment divided volunteers into two arbitrary groups:

guards and prisoners. Using a makeshift college basement, the guards

were to manage the prisoners, and quickly learned to use

reward/punish techniques to control and importantly, divide the

prisoners. Chillingly, the researchers found themselves so deeply

into the experiment that after friends of the volunteers attempted to

organize a (non-violent but quite serious) "prison break", the

researchers sought to continue the experiment in the county jail for

security. The sheriff wisely refused, and in a matter of hours it all

collapsed. Much was learned, but less about prison psychology and

more about how a badly-designed experiment can run amok, and affect

the experimenters' own perceptions and actions.

 

Today, partly because of such fiascoes, sociology experiments are

much more closely monitored and vetted. Consent is a very difficult

matter when double-blindness is necessary.

 

 

51 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:31am

Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., tif@s... wrote:

> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/news.html

>

> Is it just me or did they just disappear?

 

Some aren't showing up; others are OK.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it reached the Geocities traffic

throttling threshold.

 

 

52 From: "simply caren."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:31am

Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? caren@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., tif@s... wrote:

> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/news.html

>

> Is it just me or did they just disappear?

 

I see several pictures, some with "Kelli" in them..Aslo saw this

 

"Email to: tswenson@...

Please include my name "kelli" in the subject."

 

Why would someone put that in the subject? That is weird. Although

I've never shared e-mail with family members, so I don't know...hrm.

 

 

53 From: "sjc"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:37am

Subject: howdy howdy garbanzo666@...

Send Email

 

Just to let y'all know I'm here, and ready to add my crazy theories

to the mix.

 

I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get you

every time.

 

-- sjc (solistrato)

 

 

54 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:46am

Subject: Re: howdy howdy matt@...

Send Email

 

On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:

>I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get you

>every time.

 

Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.

 

Matt

(major league baseball will never hear your thoughts again with it on, I

swear by them)

 

 

55 From: chris_san@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:50am

Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? chris_san@...

Send Email

 

> "Email to: tswenson@t...

> Please include my name "kelli" in the subject."

>

> Why would someone put that in the subject? That is weird.

Although

> I've never shared e-mail with family members, so I don't know...hrm.

 

It could be that they have a filter set up on their mail program to

deliver mail into separate inboxes for different family members. Or

so she can spot her personal mail manually (er... ocularly?

whatever...) in the family in-tray.

 

Chris

 

 

56 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:51am

Subject: Re: pastor troy + Check Metafilter wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- "You may call me sammy." wrote:

> Funny, I only have this stupid yahoo account so I could read

> Cloudmaker updates.

 

Whuzzat?

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

57 From: "Peggy Butterworth"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:13am

Subject: it just keeps getting stranger and stranger pbutterw@...

Send Email

 

I'm in the same boat as everyone else. I was suckered in with the sad Kaycee tale and now I want to know the whole story. Its incredible to watch this unfold. In an effort to do some 'unfolding' of my own, I sent some email to salon.com and a columnist with one of the Wichita papers asking if they planned on doing a story. I'll keep you all posted.

 

I think this fascinates me because I went against my better judgement in believing in Debbie and Kaycee. One of those, 'if she can be so joyful and upbeat in the face of death...' things. I cried when I heard she had died, but then started to question things when there was no report of her death in the news. A story like that being ignored, in a small midwestern town where kids who make the honor roll are front page news???

 

Peggy

 

 

 

58 From: "sjc"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:20am

Subject: Re: howdy howdy garbanzo666@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:

> >I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get

you

> >every time.

>

> Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.

 

Man, you're on a tear today. I still can't believe people thought

you were seriously going to pull down MeFi over this. ;)

 

 

59 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:30am

Subject: I’m bothered captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

Is anyone else bothered that the people who spoke with Debbie for the

better part of a year don't seem to be coming up with any

pertinent information? It seems that they have the best access to the

person believed to be the perpetrator and there are perfectly valid

questions left unanswered. If anything they seem to be closing off

and trying to leave this episode behind.

 

I'm sure they're embarassed, but that doesn't excuse

their absence.

 

There is no sense in having a bunch of tangentially related people

doing all this research when one of the orginators could just pick up

the phone.

 

Perhaps I'm overstating that, but it is basically true that they

have effectively withdrawn from the conversation.

 

It's like a replay of the first MetaFilter thread: If discussing

KayCee's existence was so painful, all the family had to was

disclose one small bit of proof regarding her existence. All people

are asking for this time is the slightest diligence.

 

 

60 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:34am

Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- velocityiseverything@... wrote:

 

> Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a

> master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the

> fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.

 

Wouldn't such a study be a massive violation of basic academic standards at

just about any university in the country? I'd think attempting a thesis based

on such massive fraud of unsuspecting victims would be enough to get the

student expelled.

 

61 From: khalloran1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:34am

Subject: Re: howdy howdy khalloran1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> > On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:

> > >I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get

> you

> > >every time.

> >

> > Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.

>

> Man, you're on a tear today. I still can't believe people thought

> you were seriously going to pull down MeFi over this. ;)

 

I was going to mail you to ask whether the Den Beste e6500 was available

this upcoming Friday evening ;)

 

 

62 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:35am

Subject: Metafilter in the press captcrackpipe@...

process=StoryInsideDope&sub_process=cda.story&process_right=com.inside

.cda.insidedope.InsideDopeRight&article_id=31316

 

Is davenet considered press?

http://davenet.userland.com/2001/05/20/fakingADeathOnline

 

 

63 From: "mike"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:44am

Subject: Re: I’m bothered zempf@...

Send Email

 

I don't know, if it was me I'd give them at least a little time to get

their bearings in all of this. I mean, I was not at all involved in

this & can look at it totally objectively, but if you'd devoted years

of your time caring for a terminally ill girl, sending her presents,

writing about her on your webpage, only to find out that she didn't

exist.. I'd think you'd want to pause for a bit & get your bearings

before you start investigating the whole thing.

 

-mike

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

> Is anyone else bothered that the people who spoke with Debbie for

the

> better part of a year don't seem to be coming up with any

> pertinent information? It seems that they have the best access to

the

> person believed to be the perpetrator and there are perfectly valid

> questions left unanswered. If anything they seem to be closing off

> and trying to leave this episode behind.

>

> I'm sure they're embarassed, but that doesn't excuse

> their absence.

>

> There is no sense in having a bunch of tangentially related people

> doing all this research when one of the orginators could just pick

up

> the phone.

>

> Perhaps I'm overstating that, but it is basically true that they

> have effectively withdrawn from the conversation.

>

> It's like a replay of the first MetaFilter thread: If discussing

> KayCee's existence was so painful, all the family had to was

> disclose one small bit of proof regarding her existence. All people

> are asking for this time is the slightest diligence.

 

 

64 From: "Eve"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46am

Subject: College Club - memberships that won't die angelwng@...

Send Email

 

Even though I should be in bed, I went to CollegeClub again, and

found that a Kutebabe1981 has just formed a membership with the "real

name" Kaycee Nicole Swenson - arrgghhh - it was just a matter of time

before footprints would stomp all over the crime scene - and just a

matter of time until "Kaycee Nicole Swenson's" multiply like rabbits.

 

I do think that bwg, et all, need to help get to the bottom of all

this. They knew Debbie, at least, and could call her to iron out the

details.

 

After all, people need their sleep here! We can't stay up all night

every night figuring it out ourselves!

 

 

65 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46am

Subject: Re: Re: Link to the church? wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- Jon Sullivan wrote:

 

> It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number for the

> Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-2276 as it says

> on the page centrs is referrencing.

 

What am I missing here? How don't those two numbers match?

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

66 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:49am

Subject: Re: Metafilter in the press matt@...

Send Email

 

On 04:35 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:

>http://www.inside.com/page/page_display?

>process=StoryInsideDope&sub_process=cda.story&process_right=com.inside

>.cda.insidedope.InsideDopeRight&article_id=31316

 

Attack of the 50-ft URL.

 

Cool, I haven't checked any stats for referrers today, but this is cool.

 

By the way, the thing you see posted at the ol' a.whole today is a

conversation with the *second* phone call I got today from someone at

Brill's/Inside. They were freaked out and slightly pissed that their cover

boy might be a sham. The first guy thought it was funny (and probably wrote

this inside story, because I explained it to him), the second guy (the one

being quoted) was just pissed.

 

>Is davenet considered press?

 

nope. (kidding Dave! zooooooom!)

 

Matt

 

 

67 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51am

Subject: julie fullbright phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

try this on for size:

 

http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

 

look a bit familiar?

 

 

68 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:57am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright matt@...

Send Email

 

On 04:51 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, christine wrote:

>try this on for size:

>

>http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

>

>look a bit familiar?

 

Holy shit, how'd you find it?

 

Matt

(madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms. Fullbright)

 

 

69 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:56am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

we have a winner! (I think. For some of the photos.)

 

Anyone have the old KayCee photos. Google didn't cache them.

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:

> try this on for size:

>

> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

>

> look a bit familiar?

 

 

70 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:57am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Wow, creepy! How did you ever find that? Good detective work!

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:

> try this on for size:

>

> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

>

> look a bit familiar?

 

 

71 From: "christine"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:58am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright phooeygirl@...

Send Email

 

> Holy shit, how'd you find it?

>

> Matt

> (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.

Fullbright)

 

looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever

uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a

game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that

name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all

the action is.

 

 

72 From: "sjc"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:58am

Subject: Another crackpot theory? Why not? garbanzo666@...

Send Email

 

So I've posted another theory to MeFi:

 

http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85883

 

And goddamn, that's some good detective work on Julie Fullbright.

This thing just gets sicker and sicker.

 

 

73 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:59am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

I specifically recall Living Colour blog saying something about "I

use to score 40 pts a game." The first record returned is Fullbright

scoring 36.

 

This is it.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:

> Wow, creepy! How did you ever find that? Good detective work!

>

>

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:

> > try this on for size:

> >

> > http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

> >

> > look a bit familiar?

 

 

74 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:00am

Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright matt@...

Send Email

 

On 04:56 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:

>Anyone have the old KayCee photos. Google didn't cache them.

 

Google doesn't cache images, just text and web pages. Images always load

from the original server, so if the server's gone or down or the images

removed, you get broken images.

 

Matt

 

 

75 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:00am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright -- the stats i was talking about captcrackpipe@...

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

>

> I specifically recall Living Colour blog saying something about "I

> use to score 40 pts a game." The first record returned is

Fullbright

> scoring 36.

>

> This is it.

 

 

76 From: "Tiffany Ring"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:01am

Subject: RE: Re: julie fullbright tif@...

Send Email

 

Yep - I was stuck on the blue thing, and the Lady Lions - and found a page on Kelli's site about the "Lady Lions" that had the same school colors, and the same font as one of the pictures on the page with Kutebabe and Kuteone, and told everyone I thought it was someone in Gracemont, then someone found a page on Kelli's site with the roster and a bunch of pics for the Gracemont varsity basketball team - #10 was Julie Fullbright, we found a picture of #10 and it was her ... just a lot of putting things together

 

Tiffany Ring-Mulroy

  • Deco-Rations Design

 

  • Intellectual Suicide

 

-----Original Message-----

From: christine [mailto:phooeygirl@yahoo.com]

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:58 PM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: julie fullbright

 

 

 

> Holy shit, how'd you find it?

>

> Matt

> (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.

Fullbright)

 

looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever

uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a

game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that

name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all

the action is.

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

77 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:03am

Subject: re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

This person is alive right?

 

 

78 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:06am

Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright matt@...

Send Email

 

On 04:58 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, christine wrote:

>looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever

>uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a

>game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that

>name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all

>the action is.

 

You crazy metafilter kids!

 

You're all hopped up on google!

 

Great work though. Wow. Who would have thought there's enough evidence

online to prove a weird case like this?

 

Matt

(maybe that google thing should be a new tagline)

 

 

79 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:11am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this

person all through high school.

 

Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the

neighborhood?

 

Okay, uploaded a few pics from the Kutebabe CollegeClub.

 

http://www.raaka.com/stuff/warrior10.jpg

http://www.raaka.com/stuff/kace.jpg

 

One question just got answered. Scratch "Who was in those photos off

the list?".

 

 

80 From: "sjc"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:15am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright garbanzo666@...

 

Sorry, I might be slow here - why is "Warriors" badly Photoshopped

on, again?

 

 

81 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am

Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- christine wrote:

 

> join the chat, its where all

> the action is.

 

What chat?

 

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

82 From: "Tiffany Ring"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am

Subject: RE: Re: julie fullbright tif@...

Send Email

 

They were the lady Lions - Kaycee referred to herself as a "Warrior".

 

Tiffany Ring-Mulroy

  • Deco-Rations Design

 

  • Intellectual Suicide

 

-----Original Message-----

From: sjc [mailto:garbanzo666@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:15 AM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: julie fullbright

 

 

> http://www.raaka.com/stuff/warrior10.jpg

 

Sorry, I might be slow here - why is "Warriors" badly Photoshopped

on, again?

 

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

83 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am

Subject: Re: Another crackpot theory? Why not? sarapture@...

Send Email

 

That's a good theory...But try this on for size...maybe Debbie wasn't

involved at al?l...maybe it was the two girls (ashley and kelli??) who

liked halcyon...and one was posing as debbie and one was kaycee?? I

mean, as odd as this all is, it seems even odder for a 40 year old

religious woman to be involved in this...It would make more sense if it

was 2 dopey 19 year olds...well, it does to me anyway...Maybe they just

used Debbie's name? I wish halcyon or bwg would chime in on whether

"debbie" sounded like she was older and like a "mom"...hmmm...

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:

> So I've posted another theory to MeFi:

>

> http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85883

>

> And goddamn, that's some good detective work on Julie Fullbright.

> This thing just gets sicker and sicker.

 

 

84 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright dhartung@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:

>

> > Holy shit, how'd you find it?

> >

> > Matt

> > (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.

> Fullbright)

>

> looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by

> whoever uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of

> pictures of a game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster,

> searched for that name until a page with a pic showed up.

 

Great work. Can you put that high school website in the bookmarks?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/links

 

> join the chat, its where all the action is.

 

I knew I left that active for a reason. I don't suppose Yahoo Chat

lets you log?

 

 

85 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:18am

Subject: The Real Kaycee Nicole mail@...

Send Email

 

I think that the "Kaycee Nicole" photographs are of a girl who played

for the Gracemont (Oklahoma) High School Lady Lions.

 

The jacket "Kaycee" is wearing on this page ...

 

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html

 

... includes the letters "emo", the Gracemont school's colors are

blue and white and the mascot is the Lions.

 

Other photos of "Kaycee" show her as one of the homecoming court in

the year 2000, wearing blue "class of 2000" sweat pants and wearing

uniform no. 10.

 

The girl who wore no. 10 during 1999-2000 was Julie Fullbright, a 5-

foot-9 guard and forward. Kaycee gave her height as 5--foot-9 on her

weblog, which is cached here:

 

http://www.google.com/search?

q=cache:o8Q7KAr9Q9I:vanderwoning.com/living/vitals.html+kaycee+nicole+

basketball&hl=en

 

In case you're worried about my intimate knowledge of Oklahoma high

school girls basketball, I found that stuff at http://www.okhss.com.

 

Fullbright plays college basketball for Southern Nazarene University

in Bethany, Oklahoma.

 

Here's a page with her picture on it:

 

http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

 

 

86 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:22am

Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- "You may call me sammy." wrote:

>

> I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this

> person all through high school.

>

> Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the

> neighborhood?

 

Debbie Swenson better pray she's a relation, otherwise she's about to get the

mother of all lawsuits from Julie Fullbright. Impersonation of someone else is

a felony in most states.

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

87 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:24am

Subject: Another clue?? sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Hey - check this out:

 

http://sports.snu.edu/info/Basketball/women

 

The first player on the list on "Kaycee's" college team is #10 - Kacey

Whitworth...

 

A connection maybe??

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> I think that the "Kaycee Nicole" photographs are of a girl who played

> for the Gracemont (Oklahoma) High School Lady Lions.

>

> The jacket "Kaycee" is wearing on this page ...

>

> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html

>

> ... includes the letters "emo", the Gracemont school's colors are

> blue and white and the mascot is the Lions.

>

> Other photos of "Kaycee" show her as one of the homecoming court in

> the year 2000, wearing blue "class of 2000" sweat pants and wearing

> uniform no. 10.

>

> The girl who wore no. 10 during 1999-2000 was Julie Fullbright, a 5-

> foot-9 guard and forward. Kaycee gave her height as 5--foot-9 on her

> weblog, which is cached here:

>

> http://www.google.com/search?

> q=cache:o8Q7KAr9Q9I:vanderwoning.com/living/vitals.html+kaycee+nicole+

> basketball&hl=en

>

> In case you're worried about my intimate knowledge of Oklahoma high

> school girls basketball, I found that stuff at http://www.okhss.com.

>

> Fullbright plays college basketball for Southern Nazarene University

> in Bethany, Oklahoma.

>

> Here's a page with her picture on it:

>

> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

 

 

88 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:25am

Subject: Re: Re: Another crackpot theory? Why not? matt@...

Send Email

 

On 05:17 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:

>That's a good theory...But try this on for size...maybe Debbie wasn't

>involved at al?l...maybe it was the two girls (ashley and kelli??) who

>liked halcyon...

 

My thoughts:

http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85903

 

This whole falling for halcyon thing is probably closer to a motive than we

think. I mean, he's dead sexy, he's the nicest person on earth, who

wouldn't do him?

 

I always thought the KC stuff sounded like it was written as if she were

taught by Halcyon on how to write about the world. Always optimistic and

positive, and all hugs and smileys.

 

I should have listened to my nagging doubts back then.

 

Matt

 

 

89 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:34am

Subject: Re: The Real Kaycee Nicole mail@...

Send Email

 

Damn, I got scooped!

 

 

90 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:34am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Aaron Dickey wrote:

> --- "You may call me sammy." wrote:

> >

> > I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this

> > person all through high school.

> >

> > Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the

> > neighborhood?

>

> Debbie Swenson better pray she's a relation, otherwise she's about

to get the

> mother of all lawsuits from Julie Fullbright. Impersonation of

someone else is

> a felony in most states.

>

I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two minds

as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering about

the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her

totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com

(under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current posts,

and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that audralea

had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site for

the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.

 

91 From: "sjc"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:35am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright garbanzo666@...

Send Email

 

> I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two

minds

> as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering

about

> the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her

> totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com

> (under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current

posts,

> and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that audralea

> had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site

for

> the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.

 

Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the web-

savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?

 

 

92 From: Aaron Dickey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:47am

Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...

Send Email

 

--- Ray Mikell wrote:

> I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two minds

> as to whether there is one person involved.

 

Well, _Somebody's_ going to be in serious legal trouble if these pictures of

Julie Whatever (already forgot her name) were appropriated without permisson

in order to claim to be someone else.

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

93 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:49am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...

Send Email

 

>

> Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the

web-

> savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?

 

But why give it to someone like Kaycee? Jonesboro is not anywhere

close to Wichita. It's more Memphis-centric. You also should look at

her site, especially the conversation section. Hunter Thompson and

Charles Bukowski favorite writers, a little smidgen of cutsey but not

more than you'd expect out of any college girl. I know her type,

almost to the letter. Unless her good girl side was just really

moved, I don't get it. No Dr. Feelgood "positivity" of the Halcyon

type there. More southern quasi-bohemianism (which is sometimes more

off-the-wall than real bohemianism, 'cause of what it comes from, but

that's another story.) Adds a weird twist to this story, in any

case.

 

 

94 From: leia@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:53am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright leia@...

Send Email

 

Amazing. Excellent work, Scooby gang.

 

Leia

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:

> try this on for size:

>

> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/

>

> look a bit familiar?

 

 

95 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:02am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright mail@...

Send Email

 

After reading on MetaFilter that someone sent Julie Fullbright a link

to the latest Kaycee Nicole thread, I figured she ought to get a

concise explanation of what we found out, so I sent her the following

e-mail:

 

I'm writing to alert you to an unusual situation.

 

It appears that someone has published photos of you on the Web and

claimed they were of "Kaycee Nicole Swenson," a 19-year-old college

student who was fighting leukemia and died last week.

 

Here are links to some of the photos:

 

http://home.collegeclub.com/KCsCoolMom/allstar.html

http://home.collegeclub.com/Tazwoman/

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html

 

These photos and others were used as part of an online diary about

Kaycee's health battle. Eight days ago, the diary stated that Kaycee

had died. After people started questioning the veracity of the diary,

the author admitted that Kaycee Nicole doesn't exist.

 

The author appears to be Debbie Swenson, a woman who lives in Peabody,

Kansas, and was a former resident of Gracemont, Oklahoma. Swenson

accepted gifts and perhaps even money from people who were concerned

about Kaycee. The online diary included a P.O. box in Newton, Kansas,

that was rented by Debbie.

 

I don't know how much of this is news to you or not, but on the

possibility that you were unaware of this, I felt like you should be

told. My only connection to this is that I was one of the people who

thought Kaycee was real and was saddened by her death.

 

 

96 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:02am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:

> > I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two

> minds

> > as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering

> about

> > the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her

> > totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com

> > (under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current

> posts,

> > and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that

audralea

> > had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site

> for

> > the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.

>

> Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the

web-

> savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?

 

Oh, and Jonesboro is the home of Arkansas State University. Audra is

20. That doesn't mean she's *from* Jonesboro, and to date, no one has

mentioned her hometown. She could very well be from Kansas or

Oklahoma.

 

 

97 From: "Anil Dash"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:03am

Subject: Audra Lee anil@...

Send Email

 

Short time lurker, first time poster...

 

I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain registration

gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut feeling

to back that up.

 

I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.

 

 

98 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:31am

Subject: Re: Audra Lee raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Anil Dash" wrote:

> Short time lurker, first time poster...

>

> I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain

registration

> gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut

feeling

> to back that up.

>

> I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.

 

I don't know anyone who could do her character well enough. And my

gut feeling is all over the place, so . . . Anyway, sometimes you

should go the counter-intuitive route just for the hell of it, to

cross your i's, so to speak. In the social sciences, they call it

looking for "lurking" variables, the ones you've ignored, since

nothing in your experience or from past research tell you about. Cops

and reporters would consider it to be covering their all the

bases/covering their asses. Same thing.

 

 

99 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:35am

Subject: Re: Audra Lee raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Anil Dash" wrote:

> Short time lurker, first time poster...

>

> I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain

registration

> gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut

feeling

> to back that up.

>

> I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.

 

If we could find someone to impersonate Debbie well enough. Invent a

whole new Debbie and kill her off. Anyway, my gut is going all over

the place here. Leaning to the single-bullet-in-Kansas theory, but

there's too much iffiness. Seems like some counter-intuitiveness

might work, actually. In the social sciences, you'd call that looking

for a "hidden" or "lurking" variable, the one you ignored because it

didn't fit your experience or a given body of research. Cops and

reporters would call it covering all the bases or covering their

asses. Same thing.

 

 

100 From: tony@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:58am

Subject: The last one on board tony@...

Send Email

 

I spent the weekend away, and I come home late tonight and all this

has gone down. "She" and I emailed back and forth a lot and spoke on

the phone a few times.

 

Holy shit. Really. The magnitude of the ruse that went down here is

still boggling my little mind. The Halcyon crush / Ashley tag-team /

Julie picture thing sure covers the bases, though, don't it? Damn.

 

I have a voice mail of hers that I saved, if anyone wants to hear it.

 

 

101 From: call912now@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:08am

Subject: Lady Lions redux call912now@...

Send Email

 

I actually stretched the bottom of the warrior10.jpg picture and saw a

nice lion, but never went any farther with it, thinking that

 

A) maybe the picture was taken at an "away" game

B) I had also obsessed enough for one evening... har!

 

 

102 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:15am

Subject: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...

Send Email

 

For those of us who can't get into the chat!

 

 

103 From: yahoo@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:33am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:

> For those of us who can't get into the chat!

 

See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and

you'll be able to access the chat.

 

:) Suzanne

 

 

104 From: yahoo@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...

Send Email

 

> See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and

> you'll be able to access the chat.

>

> :) Suzanne

 

If I was less tired, I would have said more correctly, the upper

RIGHT. Sorry!

 

:) S

 

 

105 From: "simply caren."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am

Subject: Re: julie fullbright caren@...

Send Email

 

I also sent mail to Julie as I was one of the four that put the

pieces together and helped discover the picture of her, etc. I have

no received a response, I don't think she checks that e-mail,

although it is active because it has not bounced back yet, which is a

good thing.

 

 

106 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program

crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:

> > For those of us who can't get into the chat!

>

> See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and

> you'll be able to access the chat.

>

> :) Suzann

 

 

107 From: yahoo@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...

Send Email

 

> Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on

my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program

> crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!

 

Ooh, shitty.

 

Well, at the moment, nothing much. There was some argument about the

validity of wanting to persecute Debbie, but mostly it's people

reacting to discovering what appears to be the truth -- and the

concept of news coverage.

 

Nothing new has come out that hasn't been on the MeFi threads.

 

:) S

 

 

108 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:42am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Oh! Thank you...This has had me riveted all evening!

 

So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will be reporting on this??

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:

> > Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on

> my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program

> > crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!

>

> Ooh, shitty.

>

> Well, at the moment, nothing much. There was some argument about the

> validity of wanting to persecute Debbie, but mostly it's people

> reacting to discovering what appears to be the truth -- and the

> concept of news coverage.

>

> Nothing new has come out that hasn't been on the MeFi threads.

>

> :) S

 

 

109 From: yahoo@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:47am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...

Send Email

 

> So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will

be reporting on this??

 

Not that I have read -- but apparently she confesse, so possibly.

Not sure to whom, the media, Matt or BWG? Not sure.

 

No idea on the media, either, just that there have been conversations.

 

Sorry!

 

:) S

 

 

110 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:50am

Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...

Send Email

 

No problem! Thanks for reporting to me. :)

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:

> > So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will

> be reporting on this??

>

> Not that I have read -- but apparently she confesse, so possibly.

> Not sure to whom, the media, Matt or BWG? Not sure.

>

> No idea on the media, either, just that there have been conversations.

>

> Sorry!

>

> :) S

 

 

111 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:54am

Subject: Summing up dhartung@...

Send Email

 

There have been some developments not posted here.

 

Matt, Saundra, and others have been interviewed by local/regional

papers and national media (CNN/MSNBC). This may be getting big

airplay as an oddly-enough type of story.

 

One of the local papers seems to have reached Debbie and gotten a

story that her daughter Kelli and her N'Sync friends created Kaycee

to meet boys. Debbie found out about it, and somehow took over the

character (maybe starting out as a protection thing?), added the

cancer, and it snowballed.

 

Everything was going fine until she became SO big a net.celeb that

people were insisting Kaycee attend SXSW and then JournalCon,

offering airfare etc. So it would have been very unbelievable for her

not to show. This is why she was "killed".

 

Debbie apparently maintains that she did nothing wrong, did not

accept gifts or money.

 

Law enforcement is asking questions, including Postal Inspectors,

maybe even the FBI. But this is hearsay.

 

Anyway, that's pretty much what the chat has been about.

 

 

112 From: "elizAbeth stArk"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:04am

Subject: okay, i'm here... amazingjettgrrrl@...

Send Email

 

now whut??

 

 

 

 

 

 

I ROCK!! You might, I haven't decided yet. Check out my website at

http://www.geocities.com/thejettgrrrl

Sign the guestbook and stuff, or I will make yer life miserable.

 

_____________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

 

 

113 From: white@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:59am

Subject: Re: I was a long time reader. white@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., ewwgene@y... wrote:

> I'd been reading Kaycee's blog for about a year and a half now. I

> thought she was real. Lots of her posts brought tears to my eyes.

>

> I have no problem with this being a hoax. It makes the whole

shabang

> a lot more interesting. I've been following all weekend, and was

> constantly refreshing all morning- glad i skipped classes today.

>

 

I was pretty damn upset at first, at having been induced to grieve

over someone who didn't exist - but on reflection, I think of it as

somewhere between a Frankenstein's Monster that got out of control,

and a really, really impressive work of art.

 

I knew a fictional person, and I'm a better man for it. That's an

extraordinary thing to have done.

 

 

114 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:40pm

Subject: Re: howdy howdy sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

>

> I was going to mail you to ask whether the Den Beste e6500 was available

> this upcoming Friday evening ;)

 

Sorry, I've got a date with a beautiful AS-400 in the next clean room.

 

 

115 From: yrekcom2000@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:56pm

Subject: Re: Bookmarks yrekcom2000@...

Send Email

 

>I'll add one of my pages to the list:

>http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html

 

"...and tell us how you finally broke the case of the Kennedy

Assasination."

 

"Well, we poked around on the internet, found a lot of weird

connections. Of course the evidence was thin on the ground, and there

was no actual proof. Then we uncovered an important piece of

information, namely that the director of the CIA felt guilty about

the whole thing and offered a confession. I think most of us knew we

were on to something then."

 

"Wow! Brilliant detective work!"

 

 

116 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:04pm

Subject: Re: Bookmarks sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yrekcom2000@y... wrote:

>

> >I'll add one of my pages to the list:

> >http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html

>

> "...and tell us how you finally broke the case of the Kennedy

> Assasination."

>

> "Well, we poked around on the internet, found a lot of weird

> connections. Of course the evidence was thin on the ground, and there

> was no actual proof. Then we uncovered an important piece of

> information, namely that the director of the CIA felt guilty about

> the whole thing and offered a confession. I think most of us knew we

> were on to something then."

>

> "Wow! Brilliant detective work!"

 

I don't think that's a fair characterisation of the situation. For one thing, Debbie didn't identify the source of the pictures. (Great work, folks! I really feel sorry for Julie. She is the worst victim here, because she's the only one sucked in without being gullible.)

 

For another, I think it's arguable that Debbie wouldn't have confessed if she hadn't felt pressure from the investigation. Even as late as last Friday, BWG was actively defending her online. I think what may have happened is that the Metafilter posts from Saturday shook him, and he called Debbie and started pressing, and that's when she confessed.

 

So there really was cause-and-effect, plus a lot of information (like Julie) discovered directly.

 

 

117 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:08pm

Subject: Media On Wednesday saundra@...

Send Email

 

Small media, but media none the less. The Peabody Gazette will run a

story about this on Wednesday, which may get printed in the Hillsboro

Star Journal and the Marion Record as well.

 

Quoting from the e-mail:

 

"One of our reporters, Rick Hattersley, has contacted the woman in

question and had a lengthy and fairly interesting interview with her.

He also has been in touch with the county attorney, police chief and

postal inspectors.

 

"To date, we have no evidence of money have been sent to the post

office box, which would seem to be a significant element in whether a

crime might have been committed."

 

So we seem to know more than they do, at least at this particular

moment.

 

Saundra

 

 

118 From: yrekcom2000@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:16pm

Subject: Re: Bookmarks yrekcom2000@...

Send Email

 

Oh, ok, I agree that the confession wouldn't have happened w/o the

MeFi threads. But pressuring a suspect is not being a great detective

(ok, maybe it is; I'm not a cop...), and I was just taking the piss a

little...

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

>

> I don't think that's a fair characterisation of the situation. For

one thing, Debbie didn't identify the source of the pictures. (Great

work, folks! I really feel sorry for Julie. She is the worst victim

here, because she's the only one sucked in without being gullible.)

>

> For another, I think it's arguable that Debbie wouldn't have

confessed if she hadn't felt pressure from the investigation. Even as

late as last Friday, BWG was actively defending her online. I think

what may have happened is that the Metafilter posts from Saturday

shook him, and he called Debbie and started pressing, and that's when

she confessed.

>

> So there really was cause-and-effect, plus a lot of information

(like Julie) discovered directly.

 

 

119 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:29pm

Subject: Re: Bookmarks mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yrekcom2000@y... wrote:

> Oh, ok, I agree that the confession wouldn't have happened w/o the

> MeFi threads. But pressuring a suspect is not being a great

detective ...

 

The only thing that pressured Debbie Swenson was the truth. She could

have shut up all of the speculation on MetaFilter instantly if there

was a single fact to back up Kaycee's existence.

 

 

120 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:34pm

Subject: Debbie's Latest Confession mail@...

Send Email

 

There's a FAQ about this situation:

 

http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26

 

It's a good summary, but I think it assumes too much speculative

stuff as proven already, especially in regard to the latest

confession that's supposedly been told to people in the media.

 

122 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:36pm

Subject: Re: email to julie fullbright sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Allison" wrote:

> I've been a silent observer here, but I did read that someone had

> sent an email to Julie Fullbright advising her of what is going on.

> Her email address is on the SNU webpage and I'm assuming that's the

> one that was used. jfullbri@m...

>

> I feel pretty bad for her, since she is the real victim in this

> situation.

 

Julie is the biggest victim here, so let's not make it worse for her by flooding her with email and letters, OK?

 

There is no doubt whatever in my mind that she is not a party to this.

 

An email has now been sent to her. It isn't necessary for anyone else to send any more.

 

 

123 From: jenn@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:41pm

Subject: Re: audra lee jenn@...

Send Email

 

Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her

boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the

domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a

kind gesture for Kaycee.

(http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)

 

Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I

wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain

registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there is

not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think

we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.

 

Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Ray Mikell" wrote:

> >

> > Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the

> web-

> > savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?

>

> But why give it to someone like Kaycee? Jonesboro is not anywhere

> close to Wichita. It's more Memphis-centric. You also should look

at

> her site, especially the conversation section. Hunter Thompson and

> Charles Bukowski favorite writers, a little smidgen of cutsey but

not

> more than you'd expect out of any college girl. I know her type,

> almost to the letter. Unless her good girl side was just really

> moved, I don't get it. No Dr. Feelgood "positivity" of the Halcyon

> type there. More southern quasi-bohemianism (which is sometimes

more

> off-the-wall than real bohemianism, 'cause of what it comes from,

but

> that's another story.) Adds a weird twist to this story, in any

> case.

 

 

124 From: "Rich"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:05pm

Subject: coordination rich@...

Send Email

 

I posted this on metafilter already, but wanted to make sure this

group saw it..

 

 

I figure that if this does blow up into a huge media thing, as well as

legal, there may be some things you all want to do;

 

1. get a list of all the things people sent to Debbie, and who sent

them. Not culled from her blog, since that information is of course

very suspect, but from the actual senders.

 

2. find one person to cordinate information. List out who helped with

the investigation, what they contributed, and so forth, so everyone

gets some recognition when the time comes.

 

3. Have a main spokesperson that can help keep all the information

straight with the media, and direct them to the right people to talk

to about certain things (how the IP address was found, etc)

 

Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with

e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so

she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you

want to contact her to help her with her rights.

 

 

125 From: "Rich"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:08pm

Subject: Re: audra lee rich@...

Send Email

 

And along the lines stated below (don't make people out to be guilty

by association).. don't ruin all the good work done so far by jumping

to conclusions as you move forward to flesh out everything that

happened. There are still lots of innocent people out there that were

probably unwittingly involved - like Audra and Mr. Styn.

 

Do the background work and make sure before throwing out accusations.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., jenn@g... wrote:

> Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her

> boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the

> domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a

> kind gesture for Kaycee.

> (http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)

>

> Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I

> wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain

> registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there is

> not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think

> we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.

>

> Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.

>

 

 

126 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:10pm

Subject: Re: audra lee raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., jenn@g... wrote:

> Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her

> boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the

> domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a

> kind gesture for Kaycee.

> (http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)

>

> Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I

> wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain

> registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there

is

> not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think

> we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.

>

> Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.

>

I believe the original message said I wasn't saying anyone was guilty

or not, so you're assuming something there yourself that you

shoudn't. Only an angle no one had covered much at all, and one that

didn't make much sense to me. It still doesn't, completely. She

seemed to smart and wised up to me. Oh well. No one's perfect. (And

just for good measure, there's a difference in my book between

a "good girl/boy" or "decent girl/boy," and there was no wrong

implication there.) No one should have to think that they should have

care so much for any *specific* someone they've never met or who is

not related to them, I don't think. No one should be made to feel bad

for not joining the crowd. That's at least partially what started the

whole mess to begin with.

 

 

127 From: "brooke"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:12pm

Subject: did someone take screen shots of the various kaycee sites? brooke@...

Send Email

 

i'm essientally just watching with major facination at this whole

thing.. yes, i was one of those duped into believing the whole thing..

but not for long though, only 6 mos, but duped enough to become a link

on her website and to share a few emails with "kaycee" and one,

recently, with debbie..

 

but, i'm curious, did someone take screenshots of the websites.. the

many with julie's pictures on them? they could be valuable, as i'm

sure that the sites might get taken down.

 

 

128 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:18pm

Subject: Re: coordination sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

> Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with

> e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so

> she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you

> want to contact her to help her with her rights.

 

An email has now ALREADY BEEN SENT to Julie. Do not send any more.

 

Don't make it worse for her than it has already become.

 

 

129 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46pm

Subject: Re: did someone take screen shots of the various kaycee sites? raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:

> i'm essientally just watching with major facination at this whole

> thing.. yes, i was one of those duped into believing the whole

thing..

> but not for long though, only 6 mos, but duped enough to become a

link

> on her website and to share a few emails with "kaycee" and one,

> recently, with debbie..

>

> but, i'm curious, did someone take screenshots of the websites.. the

> many with julie's pictures on them? they could be valuable, as i'm

> sure that the sites might get taken down.

 

Probably law enforcement has these details already. Just cross your

fingers and hope nothing get lost, a la the FBI/McVeigh follies.

 

 

130 From: Al Sessions

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:52pm

Subject: Re: Re: coordination al@...

Send Email

 

sdenbes1@... wrote:

>> Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with

>> e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so

>> she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you

>> want to contact her to help her with her rights.

 

> An email has now ALREADY BEEN SENT to Julie. Do not send any more.

 

I have little doubt that Julie has received dozens, if not hundreds,

of emails. As have, John Styn, BWG, Audra (sp?), and anyone with the

misfortune to share a surname with any of these folks.

 

> Don't make it worse for her than it has already become.

 

It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or

do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to

pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the

privacy of the people involved.

 

I do not feel that it is up to me (or anybody else) to police the web.

 

If you sent money, donated bandwidth under false pretenses, or can

otherwise *prove* harm to yourself I would suggest a call to the

attorney general. Otherwise, this entire fiasco is beginning to bear a

distinct resemblance to the crowd gathered around a bleeding victim of

a car accident or shooting.

 

A fraud has been brought into the light. The community has done it's

job. It is now up to others to determine if a crime has been committed

and how to proceed.

 

--

Al Sessions

al@...

http://fatuos.com

 

 

131 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:18pm

Subject: Media on Thursday saundra@...

Send Email

 

The Activist http://www.rwcactivist.com (a college paper in

Cincinnati) will be running a story on this in their online version on

Thursday, in the Arts & Entertainment section. It will be followed by

a print version sometime next week.

 

Saundra

 

 

132 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:19pm

Subject: Re: coordination matt@...

Send Email

 

On 04:05 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, Rich wrote:

>I figure that if this does blow up into a huge media thing, as well as

>legal, there may be some things you all want to do;

>

>1. get a list of all the things people sent to Debbie, and who sent

>them. Not culled from her blog, since that information is of course

>very suspect, but from the actual senders.

 

It sounds like the police would like to know who sent money. Copies of

cashed checks coming back from your bank may be all the evidence needed.

There were gifts, and I'm sure there were receipts. There were amazon gift

certificates, and those are interesting in and of themselves. I'm sure

amazon can trace gift certs, and show who redeemed then, what was

purchased, and where the items were sent (this is of course a police

matter, and I doubt any of us can ever uncover it).

 

>2. find one person to cordinate information. List out who helped with

>the investigation, what they contributed, and so forth, so everyone

>gets some recognition when the time comes.

>

>3. Have a main spokesperson that can help keep all the information

>straight with the media, and direct them to the right people to talk

>to about certain things (how the IP address was found, etc)

 

Yes, I'd say getting the stories straight and having someone that can be

contacted would help, not hurt this story (but don't nominate me). I think

it's very important to try and give this a positive spin when talking to

reporters. I've done bad interviews with people that basically had their

opinionated, erroneous story done and just called to get me to agree so

they could submit it.

 

I'm sure the lazier reporters would like this to be The Net (worst. movie.

ever.), but played out in real life. It can also be a story of people

sharing their stories online (and getting duped), using the net for

ingenious research, and how a group of people cracked the case together

using the web.

 

>Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with

>e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so

>she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you

>want to contact her to help her with her rights.

 

I think if someone has, and the results are at all interesting (how could

they not be?), she'll get the media barrage anyway.

 

Matt

 

 

133 From: "brooke"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:42pm

Subject: i don't know if its relevant brooke@...

Send Email

 

but i took screen shots of the two pages w/ pictures still on them..

the swenson family homepage, and the kc.html page under kelli's insync

pages.. most of the pictures there had been taken, except one. if

anyone is interested, they can be found at:

http://rivervision.com/blog/kc/

 

-brooke.

 

 

134 From: "Nikki"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:03pm

Subject: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...

Send Email

 

Hello,

 

I am just venting here so please bear with me.

I offer the prespective of someone that received gifts from Kaycee,

talked to her, and knew her for years!

 

I have thought for sometime now about not commenting on this issue.

See...I was one of the few fortunite individuals who knew KC on

Collegeclub. We were both hosts..infact our connection started

because we began hosting on CC the same day.

This had to have been back in the late 90's 97-99.

 

To say that I talked to her religiously is an understatement. I mean

we chatted..emailed, exchanged voicemails and even talked on the

phone. We stayed in communication. I thought I was going through it

all with her...her crushes the way she was getting always approached

by CC members for advise. She was the host of the Love/Relationships

Channel for gods sake. She spent hours upon hours of time online.

Then the whole cancer thing broke out. The KC Support Group was

formed.

 

The tale gets deeper. I mean for Christmas she sent me a diamond

pendent. I have been mentioned in posts....she talked about her

SIS's nika, christine and nicole...I am nicole. In fact debbie

almost 2 weeks ago mentioned how a book i sent her on the caretaking

of cancer patients helped her. My very outdated blog is linked to

hers and you can check archives to see that I spoke about feeling

like debbie was my far away mother. Damn I brought her a mothers day

card. http://www.understandingourselves.com

 

I talked well received an IM from Kaycee on the day she had died.

When I found out...I was crushed.

 

Why am I writing all this...cause i feel stupid, and hurt. I mean..I

can still here Kaycee's voice..she has my home addy and phone.

 

I look back and can see some odd things...like everything was sorta

like a fairy tale. All the men were after her, the whole ashley

thing..how she made it to be with her, how she passed the day after

mothers day.

 

I am sad for Debbie. This was a very deep thing. I received a care

package with pictures of who i now know is Julie. These were actual

pictures (senior pictures) just like the ones that everyone passes

out.

 

I am in a daze....I am completely stunned!

I just wanted to share my thoughts!

Im just venting............

 

 

135 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:13pm

Subject: kaycee = kelli + j.c. sarapture@...

Send Email

 

This is not very relevant, but it just occurred to me, following all

you scooby detectives from the sidelines, that from Kelli's n'sync page

the one she pictures and mentions by name is J.C. Kelli + JC =

Kaycee??

 

Ok, I think this is all starting to get to me too... :)

 

i'm out for a scooby snack...keep up the good work, gang...

 

 

136 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:21pm

Subject: Re: coordination mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:

> It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or

> do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to

> pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the

> privacy of the people involved.

 

Julie Fullbright has a right to know that her image is being used by

someone else in an identity hoax, especially since it might involve

fraud.

 

The person who called the pastor did so out of concern for Debbie. I

was a little surprised she called him, but he was in a good position

to privately seek her out and make sure things were OK.

 

As for calls to the press, I wasn't comfortable making any of them

myself, because I never sent any gifts or money to "Kaycee." However,

I can understand why people did -- and the only one to blame, if the

story is invasive to privacy, is Debbie Swanson.

 

Besides, its just desserts. How many people revealed private personal

things to Debbie in phone calls, instant messages, and the like? I

wouldn't be real happy if the woman had my phone number and address,

all things considered.

 

 

137 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:34pm

Subject: Re: coordination sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:

> > It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or

> > do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to

> > pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the

> > privacy of the people involved.

>

> Julie Fullbright has a right to know that her image is being used by

> someone else in an identity hoax, especially since it might involve

> fraud.

 

Absolutely correct. But she doesn't need to know a thousand times. She has been informed already. No-one else needs to write to her.

 

She's a victim. She's been told. Let's not make her a worse victim.

 

 

138 From: clstamper@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:47pm

Subject: Re: Feeling a little dizzy clstamper@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki" wrote:

> She was the host of the Love/Relationships Channel for gods sake.

 

Here's something I never seen asked. This girl's supposed to be this

cute, blonde 19-year-old. Weren't there guys out there trying to hit

on her? What became of them?

 

Chris Stamper

 

 

139 From: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:09pm

Subject: New poll for kaycee-nicole kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Send Email

 

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the

kaycee-nicole group:

 

Did you ever send any gifts or money to

Kaycee Nicole? Please answer each

choice that applies.

 

If you did not know Kaycee before the

exposure this poll is not for you.

 

o No gifts or money, just friendship.

o Sent gifts worth less than $5 (e.g. stuffed animal)

o Sent gifts worth $5-25 (e.g. book)

o Sent gifts worth more than $25 (e.g. necklace)

o Sent money under $25

o Sent money from $25-100

o Sent money over $100

o Contributed money to a gift (e.g. via paypal account)

o Sent gifts, received gifts in return

o Sent money, received gifts in return

o Sent no gifts or money, received gifts

o Received money

 

 

To vote, please visit the following web page:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/polls

 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are

not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups

web site listed above.

 

Thanks!

 

 

140 From: dhartung@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:11pm

Subject: Poll: Did you send or receive gifts or money? dhartung@...

Send Email

 

I created a poll after being asked. This is in no way scientific,

it's just to get an idea of the problem. For people who actually knew

and interacted with Kaycee, please answer whether you sent any gifts

or money, or received anything in return. Check all that apply.

 

Note: I stand with those who say that people who were defrauded in

this way have a responsibility to contact law enforcement about it.

 

 

141 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:18pm

Subject: Online Media Coverage Today saundra@...

Send Email

 

Kuro5hin has a fairly extensive article about this today, I just found

it:

 

http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/5/22/11120/1650

 

Saundra

 

 

142 From: "Nikki H."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:19pm

Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...

Send Email

 

Actually they were...i know she dated this guy on CC..

pale something or other..in fact..i just logged into

my hosts account on CC and saw where his mother posted

her condolences.

This is whats strange its like on each site she was on

she dated someone...

Warning I am really bad with names....

 

She also dated peter van something I saw some

club..they broke up some real long soap opera.

 

Then...she dated a doctor on Citizenx. they broke up

a while ago too.

 

Now when i say dated I am of course talking about

online.....

 

But she used to always talk about dylan or some guy

with a d that she dated in high school that committed

suicide....

 

Oh and something of interest..if you want to see

it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC

about Kaycees death.

 

 

--- clstamper@... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki"

> wrote:

> > She was the host of the Love/Relationships Channel

> for gods sake.

>

> Here's something I never seen asked. This girl's

> supposed to be this

> cute, blonde 19-year-old. Weren't there guys out

> there trying to hit

> on her? What became of them?

>

> Chris Stamper

>

>

 

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

143 From: LadyJane4U@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:20pm

Subject: Re: Poll: Did you send or receive gifts or money? LadyJane4U@...

Send Email

 

In a message dated 5/22/01 3:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dhartung@... writes:

 

<< I created a poll after being asked. This is in no way scientific,

it's just to get an idea of the problem. For people who actually knew

and interacted with Kaycee, please answer whether you sent any gifts

or money, or received anything in return. Check all that apply. >>

 

 

I sent her a Christmas card when she was "in the hospital".

 

Becca

sapphire-designs.com

 

 

144 From: "Sara L. Olesen"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:24pm

Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy sara@...

Send Email

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nikki H."

To:

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:19 PM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little dizzy

> Oh and something of interest..if you want to see

> it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC

> about Kaycees death.

 

Yes please.

--

Sara - Censored, but not silenced.

http://crunchblogger.tripod.com

 

 

145 From: "Nikki H."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:30pm

Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...

Send Email

 

After a reread it may not be of that much

interest..but here it is anyway..

 

It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:

 

From: "Simply KC"

Club: Hosts

Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01

To: hosts@...

Cc:

Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom

 

 

Dear CollageClub Hosts,

 

Please forgive me for borrowing your forum, Kaycee

always warned me when

checking her mail not to touch her host mail. She was

so very proud to be

a host on this site. While in the hospital she would

tell me how she

missed her friends on CollegeClub. She never forgot

about any of you.

You were all very near and dear to her.

 

She would recant tales of Nick, Alex, Niki, Nicole,

Beth, Heather, and

many others.

She voiced her deep respect for John, Al, Jim and

Bennett. She felt she

was a kid being taught by some of the best teachers.

She had love for each of you individually, and as a

community of peers.

 

I wanted to thank you personally for the trust you

placed in her, she took

great pride and deep interest in fulfilling her role

as a host. Perhaps

one of the hardest things for her was when she was

unable to accomplish

her part any longer. The greatest accomplishment she

felt was making

friends and forming bonds with many through this

website.

 

The last several months of her life she continued to

share herself and her

love, though she felt it was silently.

 

I have decided to keep her account on CollegeClub open

for now. Coming

here offers me a slight amount of peace as we struggle

to move forward.

 

I thank you for allowing me to be a part of your world

through my

daughter. May God bless each of you.

 

Debbie

(Kaycee's mom)

 

 

 

*I'm a Genie in a Bottle*

~ Kaycee ~

CC HOST

 

~ I am not afraid of tomorrow for I have seen

yesterday...and I love

today. ~

 

~ "Pain is weakness leaving the body." ...Whoever said

that, was wrong!

 

~ Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes into our house and

pushes us around.

You know what you have to do... It's your

game...let's do it!

 

Check out my CC Homepages:

http://home.collegeclub.com/Kutebabe/

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- "Sara L. Olesen" wrote:

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Nikki H."

> To:

> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:19 PM

> Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little

> dizzy

> > Oh and something of interest..if you want to see

> > it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC

> > about Kaycees death.

>

> Yes please.

> --

> Sara - Censored, but not silenced.

> http://crunchblogger.tripod.com

>

>

>

 

 

______________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

146 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:31pm

Subject: julie knows centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

ok. i guess i've given julie and her mom enough information and a

head start that i can post this now.

 

i called julie's mom this morning at 8:30 cst to let her know what

was going on. i come from a small town in north texas (we call it

baja oklahoma) and i know what that's like and i wanted her to be

prepared. she said julie was alive and at home asleep. also, julie

never checks her email and is away from school so she won't see any

messages until september at least.

 

she (julie's mom) wasn't very web savvy. i gave her all of the links

and information and a friend was helping her sort through it all.

 

she said in a town that small, 326 people, star athletes like her

daughter were either envied or revered. she said the whole swenson

family had a fixation on her daughter and would travel everywhere she

went to see her play basketball. debbie especially just adored her.

 

she was the one who gave debbie the photos because debbie offered to

make a photo album for julie's graduation. she was supposed to return

the photos. i don't think she believed me until i started describing

the photos and what julie was wearing, etc. she recognized all of the

photos i mentioned.

 

i don't think she realized that newspapers keep online archives. she

was shocked to learn that they were so easy to find and that

information about her daughter was out there beyond what debbie was

doing. please be very gentle with them and discreet about the last

name even though it's been posted before.

 

i don't know what they are planning on doing. they are such nice

devout christians that i seriously doubt they will attempt to sue.

she wants everyone to know that she and julie knew nothing about any

of this and that julie is a good girl who goes to church a lot and is

a great basketball player.

 

 

147 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38pm

Subject: Re: Debbie's Latest Confession matt@...

Send Email

 

On 02:34 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, Rogers Cadenhead wrote:

>There's a FAQ about this situation:

>

>http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26

>

>It's a good summary, but I think it assumes too much speculative

>stuff as proven already, especially in regard to the latest

>confession that's supposedly been told to people in the media.

 

My wife just pointed this out (she's a professor):

 

"also, I have only one problem with the KayCee FAQ. I would change proven

and disproven to something like "shown" or "found to be not true." Sorry, a

thing I have. It is something I beat out of psych students because we

cannot prove anything in psychology."

 

 

148 From: ewwgene@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38pm

Subject: Re: Feeling a little dizzy ewwgene@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki H." wrote:

> After a reread it may not be of that much

> interest..but here it is anyway..

>

> It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:

>

> From: "Simply KC"

> Club: Hosts

> Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01

> To: hosts@g...

> Cc:

> Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom

 

 

wow.

 

that is sooo wierd. sick and twisted for sure.

 

Do you think CC doesn't know this is/was a hoax?

 

this is better than cable tv.

 

/ewwgene@eww,gene!com

 

 

149 From: "simply caren."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:43pm

Subject: Re: julie knows caren@...

Send Email

 

Thanks for letting us know centrs, I found the phone number too this

morning, and tried to call but received the answering machine. I'm

glad that you were able to get through, this helps a lot!

 

 

150 From:

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:45pm

Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy jr@...

Send Email

 

I find myself asking, do I leave the pics and links of Julie up? or do I take them down to save what little privacy she has left (if any).

 

- J.R.

www.logboy.com/jr/main.asp

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ewwgene@yahoo.com

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:38 PM

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little dizzy

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki H." wrote:

> After a reread it may not be of that much

> interest..but here it is anyway..

>

> It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:

>

> From: "Simply KC"

> Club: Hosts

> Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01

> To: hosts@g...

> Cc:

> Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom

 

 

wow.

 

that is sooo wierd. sick and twisted for sure.

 

Do you think CC doesn't know this is/was a hoax?

 

this is better than cable tv.

 

/ewwgene@eww,gene!com

 

 

 

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

151 From: "Nikki H."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:46pm

Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...

Send Email

 

I feel like I am just killing you guys...

 

But yeah..someone posted a message about this being a

hoax

 

CC knows.

 

--- ewwgene@... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki H."

> wrote:

> > After a reread it may not be of that much

> > interest..but here it is anyway..

> >

> > It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:

> >

> > From: "Simply KC"

> > Club: Hosts

> > Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01

> > To: hosts@g...

> > Cc:

> > Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom

>

>

>

> wow.

>

> that is sooo wierd. sick and twisted for sure.

>

> Do you think CC doesn't know this is/was a hoax?

>

> this is better than cable tv.

>

> /ewwgene@eww,gene!com

 

152 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:49pm

Subject: MS NBC Coverage saundra@...

Send Email

 

Started moments ago:

 

http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1

 

Saundra

 

 

153 From: caf@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:02pm

Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage caf@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> Started moments ago:

>

> http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1

>

> Saundra

 

um, does anyone else think that Julie's pictures should not be

published on a major news website without her permission?

 

 

154 From: frykitty

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:06pm

Subject: Re: Re: MS NBC Coverage frykitty@...

Send Email

 

It looks like the report was ignorant of the source. Among

other things. YAY! Here comes the bad news coverage!

Everybody duck!

 

Cat

http://www.frykitty.com

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________

Get your own "800" number

Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more

http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag

 

 

---- On Tue, 22 May 2001, caf@... (caf@...) wrote:

 

>

>

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> > Started moments ago:

> >

> > > href="http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?

cp1=1">http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1

> >

> > Saundra

>

> um, does anyone else think that Julie's pictures should not

be

> published on a major news website without her permission?

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of

> Service.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

155 From: "Jess Cook"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:08pm

Subject: RE: Re: MS NBC Coverage jess@...

Send Email

 

That's exactly what I was thinking.. since Julie and her family seem to be

unfamiliar with the Web, it seems quite possible that they have *no idea*

that there's a major news site carrying photos of Julie. It seems a little

impolite, if nothing else.

 

 

Jess Cook

pocketgeek.com/pith

Web Developer and Punctuation Evangelist.

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: caf@... [mailto:caf@...]

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:02 PM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: MS NBC Coverage

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:

> Started moments ago:

>

> http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1

>

> Saundra

 

um, does anyone else think that Julie's pictures should not be

published on a major news website without her permission?

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

156 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:09pm

Subject: julie centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

i emailed her mom with the link and will continue to do so. she knew

there would be national coverage.

 

 

157 From: caf@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:15pm

Subject: Re: julie caf@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., centrsgrrl@y... wrote:

> i emailed her mom with the link and will continue to do so. she

knew

> there would be national coverage.

 

knowing about national coverage and having your 20(?) year old

daughter's face on a high traffic news site are 2 different things.

plus the article is inaccurate and poorly written. but i suppose

that was to be expected.

 

 

158 From: "brooke"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:16pm

Subject: Re: julie brooke@...

Send Email

 

how is julie doing with all this? i'm concerned for her well being..

 

thanks,

brooke.

 

 

159 From: s h a u n a

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:22pm

Subject: Re: Re: MS NBC Coverage goldengateblonde@...

Send Email

 

i dropped a note to the reporter to let him know that the identity of the

girl in the photographs has been found and also that there's way more to

the story. he asked for links to "read all about it" so i provided him

with those as well.

 

 

160 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 8:34pm

Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jess Cook" wrote:

> That's exactly what I was thinking.. since Julie and her family

seem to be

> unfamiliar with the Web, it seems quite possible that they have *no

idea*

> that there's a major news site carrying photos of Julie. It seems a

little

> impolite, if nothing else.

 

If I were an editor, I would run a photo of Julie because the damage

has already been done -- thousands of people have seen and mourned

the woman under false pretense. It would have been better to wait

until she could be identified, but at the time MSNBC's writer

submitted the piece, he clearly didn't know who she was. For all he

knew, his story would be the thing that brought her identity to light.

 

 

161 From: "Sara"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:32pm

Subject: Re: Feeling a little dizzy sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Creepy.

 

I think the operative word in this post is "recant". Freudian slip, eh?

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki H." wrote:

> After a reread it may not be of that much

> interest..but here it is anyway..

>

> It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:

>

> From: "Simply KC"

> Club: Hosts

> Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01

> To: hosts@g...

> Cc:

> Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom

>

>

> Dear CollageClub Hosts,

>

> Please forgive me for borrowing your forum, Kaycee

> always warned me when

> checking her mail not to touch her host mail. She was

> so very proud to be

> a host on this site. While in the hospital she would

> tell me how she

> missed her friends on CollegeClub. She never forgot

> about any of you.

> You were all very near and dear to her.

>

> She would recant tales of Nick, Alex, Niki, Nicole,

> Beth, Heather, and

> many others.

> She voiced her deep respect for John, Al, Jim and

> Bennett. She felt she

> was a kid being taught by some of the best teachers.

> She had love for each of you individually, and as a

> community of peers.

>

> I wanted to thank you personally for the trust you

> placed in her, she took

> great pride and deep interest in fulfilling her role

> as a host. Perhaps

> one of the hardest things for her was when she was

> unable to accomplish

> her part any longer. The greatest accomplishment she

> felt was making

> friends and forming bonds with many through this

> website.

>

> The last several months of her life she continued to

> share herself and her

> love, though she felt it was silently.

>

> I have decided to keep her account on CollegeClub open

> for now. Coming

> here offers me a slight amount of peace as we struggle

> to move forward.

>

> I thank you for allowing me to be a part of your world

> through my

> daughter. May God bless each of you.

>

> Debbie

> (Kaycee's mom)

>

>

>

> *I'm a Genie in a Bottle*

> ~ Kaycee ~

> CC HOST

>

> ~ I am not afraid of tomorrow for I have seen

> yesterday...and I love

> today. ~

>

> ~ "Pain is weakness leaving the body." ...Whoever said

> that, was wrong!

>

> ~ Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes into our house and

> pushes us around.

> You know what you have to do... It's your

> game...let's do it!

>

> Check out my CC Homepages:

> http://home.collegeclub.com/Kutebabe/

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- "Sara L. Olesen" wrote:

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Nikki H."

> > To:

> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:19 PM

> > Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little

> > dizzy

> > > Oh and something of interest..if you want to see

> > > it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC

> > > about Kaycees death.

> >

> > Yes please.

> > --

> > Sara - Censored, but not silenced.

> > http://crunchblogger.tripod.com

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ______________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices

> http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

 

162 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:40pm

Subject: That story in MSNBC saundra@...

Send Email

 

I just wanted to tell you guys that the story in MSNBC in no way

resembles what I was lead to believe it would be. Mr. Sullivan told me

he was strictly interested in the mail fraud aspect of the case, and

in fact, he interviewed Kristin Thomas about just that. I was under

the impression that he was not interested in my part of it, but he was

still given all my materials, including links to ALL the MeFi threads.

He knew that the identity of the hoaxer came from MeFi and not me. He

also knew those photos were a false lead (they're leftover from me

trying to figure out which D celebrity Kaycee was- I didn't know she

was a real girl at the beginning) and I can't believe he posted them.

I'm very, very angry about this right now, but I think it's also a

good object lesson on how the media is going to pick and choose. If I

speak to anyone again, I am going to be a lot more careful, and I

suggest that any of y'all talking to the media do the same. Jeez.

 

Saundra

 

 

163 From: centrsgrrl@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:49pm

Subject: how julie is doing? centrsgrrl@...

Send Email

 

i don't know. i didn't want to bother them any more and her mother

has not emailed me. i'm sure that that is going to become phase two

of the story and we will see soon how they handled it.

 

from what i've seen on other posts, they are not answering the phone

anymore.

 

 

164 From: clstamper@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:52pm

Subject: Netslaves Article clstamper@...

Send Email

 

I wrote up a rant last night about L'affair Kaycee that is now online:

http://www.netslaves.com/comments/990564969.shtml

 

Feel free to shred me. ;)

 

Chris Stamper

 

 

165 From: saundra@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:57pm

Subject: Re: Netslaves Article saundra@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., clstamper@a... wrote:

> I wrote up a rant last night about L'affair Kaycee that is now

online:

> http://www.netslaves.com/comments/990564969.shtml

>

> Feel free to shred me. ;)

>

> Chris Stamper

 

Chris, could you possibly change my last name to Mitchell, please? My

name's Saundra Mitchell Walters, but I only use my maiden name online,

and professional. Or, at least add the Mitchell before the Walters

before people start thinking I'm made up too? Pretty please? :)

 

Saundra

 

 

166 From: pamela@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:17pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC pamela@...

Send Email

 

Hm, when I first looked at the article, a big photo of Julie was at

the top, and two smaller photos (the side by side with Tiffany-Amber

Thiessen) appeared further down. Now, the photo that was at the top

is about halfway down with this caption, "Web sites following Kaycee

Nicole's saga posted photographs of this unidentified woman portrayed

as the 19-year-old leukemia sufferer. The photograph appears to have

been pilfered from a family home page."

 

Looks like someone noticed the comments about how misleading (and

unethical) it was to use Julie's photos.

 

~pamela

 

 

167 From: pamela@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:21pm

Subject: MeFi down again? pamela@...

Send Email

 

Or is it just me? (Fyi, it's 5:20 pm cST.)

 

 

168 From: "Jim Finnis"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:37pm

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC white@...

Send Email

 

I'm beginning to think that what Debbie did, which was create a bit of a

Frankenstein's monster that got out of hand, is going to pale into

insignificance compared to what the media are going to do...

 

 

169 From: rebeccablood@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:39pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC rebeccablood@...

Send Email

 

I actually wrote a note to the reporter and copied it to his editor

teling him that I thought it was an egregious invasion of julie's

privacy.

 

in case anyone is in touch with julie (denise :) here is the link

describing 'NOTICE AND PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CLAIMS OF COPYRIGHT

INFRINGEMENT' <http://www.msnbc.com/m/info/reprints.asp>, and I

have a screenshot of the MSNBC article using the one photo sitting on

my desktop, in case julie's family would like to take action.

 

best,

rcb

 

 

170 From: clstamper@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:47pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC clstamper@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., rebeccablood@y... wrote:

> I actually wrote a note to the reporter and copied it to his editor

> teling him that I thought it was an egregious invasion of julie's

> privacy.

 

In any news coverage involving Web incidents, images are normally

grabbed as a manner of course. The pictures are part of the story and

are therefore fair game.

 

Stamper

 

 

171 From: "Dinah Sanders"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:50pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC yahoo@...

Send Email

 

Or what the detective-monster (of which our MeFi Mob is a prime

example) could do the next time it decides to find out everything it

can about someone.

 

These privacy implications are what I expect to be the reason for

major news organizations to pick up the story. Most of us do enough

ego-surfing to know what info the web has about us, but Mr. & Mrs.

Offline America might be quite surprised.

 

And how do you deal with having no privacy? One approach, which

Justin Hall and John Halcyon Styn personify, is that of having no

secrets. That's a pretty extreme approach. I expect interesting and

unnerving developments in the next 2 years.

 

Dinah

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jim Finnis" wrote:

> I'm beginning to think that what Debbie did, which was create a bit

of a

> Frankenstein's monster that got out of hand, is going to pale into

> insignificance compared to what the media are going to do...

 

 

172 From: "brooke"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:52pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC brooke@...

Send Email

 

> In any news coverage involving Web incidents, images are normally

> grabbed as a manner of course. The pictures are part of the story

and

> are therefore fair game.

 

you know, and its the pictures that are one thing that make this

story so intriguing.. a crazy woman making all this crap up, and then

using the pictures of an unknowing person..

*aha* yes, i do rememeber randy saying that "kaycee" only wanted

to be known by her words, and therefore didn't want many pictures of

herself around.. at least, thats what "the family" said when she

"died"..

 

-brooke.

 

 

173 From: Al Sessions

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:53pm

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC al@...

Send Email

 

rebeccablood@... wrote:

> I actually wrote a note to the reporter and copied it to his editor

> teling him that I thought it was an egregious invasion of julie's

> privacy.

 

> in case anyone is in touch with julie (denise :) here is the link

> describing 'NOTICE AND PROCEDURE FOR MAKING CLAIMS OF COPYRIGHT

> INFRINGEMENT' <http://www.msnbc.com/m/info/reprints.asp>, and I

> have a screenshot of the MSNBC article using the one photo sitting on

> my desktop, in case julie's family would like to take action.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer nor do have any aspirations to be one

 

I've always thought that images used in news stories were open game

 

Isn't this fair use?

 

What is probably going to be much more interesting than the twisted

quirks of the perpetrators psyche, is the spin the media will put on

this. Rather than highlighting how this came to light and that the web

community is doing a fair job of self-policing it will be put out as

another example of internet abuse.

 

--

Al Sessions

al@...

http://fatuos.com

 

 

174 From: clstamper@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:57pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC clstamper@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jim Finnis" wrote:

> I'm beginning to think that what Debbie did, which was create a bit

>of a Frankenstein's monster that got out of hand, is going to pale

> into insignificance compared to what the media are going to do...

 

Speaking as someone who has covered "Net Culture" since 1995, I don't

think this is as great a story as you guys think.

 

1.) The Kaycee Nicole thing is a big deal to Bloggers, but that's a

relatively tiny group. Unless somebody involved goes to jail, this is

Yet Another Internet Hoax.

 

2.) You guys claim that "thousands of people" read her Weblog

religiously, but how do I know that? Most of those sites get

teeny-tiny hit counts. Metafilter itself gets what? Only 25K

pageviews a day?

 

3.) There's no crime in playing dress-up on the Internet. People have

been role-playing online since day one. Even if people sent gifts,

they weren't solicited so that makes the fraud claim a little hazy.

 

Stamper

 

 

175 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 10:58pm

Subject: Re: MeFi down again? captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

Yes. The Swensons should buy Matt another server.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., pamela@m... wrote:

> Or is it just me? (Fyi, it's 5:20 pm cST.)

 

 

176 From: "Jim Finnis"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:09pm

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC white@...

Send Email

 

>

> 3.) There's no crime in playing dress-up on the Internet. People have

> been role-playing online since day one. Even if people sent gifts,

> they weren't solicited so that makes the fraud claim a little hazy.

>

 

This is the opinion I'm beginning to come to - along with this. Debbie

created a quite brilliant work of art which moved us, whether deliberately

or as a cry of pain, or some manifestation of a psychological problem - that

doesn't matter to the work itself, nor should it - look at old Vincent Van

G. She deceived us, yes, but I'm - weirdly enough - a better person for that

deception, both the story itself and the feelings I've had since the story

was revealed as false. I don't want her to get persecuted for the act of

deceiving us in such a beautiful and moving way. If the whole thing was just

for material gain, that's different.

 

 

177 From: "Jay Allen"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:17pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC fooljay@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:

> *aha* yes, i do rememeber randy saying that "kaycee" only

wanted

> to be known by her words, and therefore didn't want many pictures

of

> herself around..

 

Ahhh yes, that makes sense. "KuteBabe" is just the name for someone

who wants to be known by their words.

 

Listen, it's very simple. Debbie needed to use SOME images or, as

some have speculated, Kaycee might not have been as popular as she

was. However, she couldn't use too many because it would be

difficult for her to get a hold of many non-basketball pictures (i.e.

pictures of Julie when she was out in a public place) on an ongoing

basis. Hence the, "I just want to be known by my words" malarky...

 

What it comes down to is that she just wanted to be known (and liked)

and it didn't matter if it was for someone else's face and a made up

story. I actually feel sorry for the woman...

 

 

178 From: "Jim"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:30pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC jim@...

Send Email

 

> 2.) You guys claim that "thousands of people" read her Weblog

> religiously, but how do I know that? Most of those sites get

> teeny-tiny hit counts. Metafilter itself gets what? Only 25K

> pageviews a day?

 

Some FACTS, for what it's worth.

 

My name is Jim. My website is JimFormation.com. I am a friend of

Randy and his brother, Ray.

 

Randy asked to use my bulletin board for people to grieve and send

condolences to Debbie. He also wished to protect her. HA!

 

Anyway, my humble site averages 100-200 uniques sessions per 24 hours

(unique ip accesses per day). When Randy linked to my forum, this is

what the numbers did:

 

5/14 - 112

5/15 - 257

5/16 - 2851

5/17 - 1442

5/18 - 817

5/19 - 666

5/20 - 571

 

I'm going to take that forum down soon. I'm considering a bulk email

to all who sent condolences. Just in case they haven't heard.

 

 

179 From: rebeccablood@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:40pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC rebeccablood@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:

 

> Isn't this fair use?

 

since julie never put the pictures on the web in the first place, I wonder if it is. *she* didn't know they were up there.

 

rcb

 

 

180 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:45pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., rebeccablood@y... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:

>

> > Isn't this fair use?

>

> since julie never put the pictures on the web in the first place, I

wonder if it is. *she* didn't know they were up there.

>

> rcb

 

The self-described journalist who's covered the Internet since blah

blah cat from earlier appears to be dead on. It's fair use. Problem

is, legal is not equal to ethical. If the reporter didn't know about

it, however, there is neither a legal nor an ethical problem. He's

reportedly been told about it since the article was published,

though -- and web pages can of course be updated (really).

 

 

181 From: Rory Ewins

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:54pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC rory@...

Send Email

 

>Listen, it's very simple. Debbie needed to use SOME images or, as

>some have speculated, Kaycee might not have been as popular as she

>was. However, she couldn't use too many

 

Although, let's not forget that it was the daughter who (apparently -

better cover ourselves here) created the images-heavy GeoCities

pages. Images seem to have been pretty sparse in the weblog. (Damn, I

knew I should have posted my suspicion about the

GeoCities/CollegeClub pages and the weblog seeming like the work of

two different people... but I was guessing that the former were by a

'real' Kaycee that the author of the latter had somehow co-opted.)

 

It's amazing that this case has been cracked, but imagine if a couple

of key elements were missing: namely, the daughter-created Kaycee

pages, and the surname of the family in that NYT article. The author

would almost certainly *never* have been uncovered. And if no gifts

had been involved, the whole issue of 'mail fraud' would never have

come into it. She still could have stomped on people's emotions and

sense of reality, and would have gotten away with it completely.

 

Just something to ponder.

 

182 From: Rory Ewins

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 11:56pm

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC rory@...

Send Email

 

> > Isn't this fair use?

>

>since julie never put the pictures on the web in the first place, I

>wonder if it is. *she* didn't know they were up there.

 

She's the subject of the pictures, not the photographer. She doesn't

own the copyright. Someone does - I guess for some of those pictures,

it's Julie's family, or even Debbie.

 

 

183 From: BeanSprouts@...

Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:57pm

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC BeanSprouts@...

Send Email

 

In a message dated 5/22/01 11:42:51 PM !!!First Boot!!!, white@pale.org

writes:

 

 

 

I don't want her to get persecuted for the act of

deceiving us in such a beautiful and moving way. If the whole thing was just

for material gain, that's different.

 

 

It's good that you were able to gain a better grasp on humanity and all that,

and i can _sort of_ see how you'd feel that way but...

 

Isn't there something to be said for the gifts and cash she allegedly took

under false pretenses?

 

 

184 From: Rory Ewins

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:07am

Subject: Re: Netslaves Article rory@...

Send Email

 

>I wrote up a rant last night about L'affair Kaycee that is now online:

>http://www.netslaves.com/comments/990564969.shtml

>

>Feel free to shred me. ;)

 

No shredding... but a comment on your comment: 'Truth is, people

should have caught on to the fiction. The writings of "Kaycee" are

just too cutesy, too pious, and too stoic to mesh with reality.

Digging through her Weblog, you half expect her to put on her Tiny

Tim costume and shout "God bless us, every one!"'

 

That's what I've been feeling too, as someone who never followed

Kaycee's blog (although I was aware of it). But I think we have to

cut some slack for the regular readers... short perky posts every

couple of days would come across quite differently to reading a whole

swag of them in one hit.

 

To the webloggers out there: if you've been doing this a while, have

you ever read over your archives in one hit? You might be surprised

(pleasantly or unpleasantly) by how they come across when taken as a

whole, as opposed to bit by daily bit.

 

 

185 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:20am

Subject: Re: MeFi down again? matt@...

Send Email

 

On 10:21 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, pamela@... wrote:

>Or is it just me? (Fyi, it's 5:20 pm cST.)

 

There's a router problem upstream, sirius.net seems to have screwed

something up (or cut off the entire pyra office). Do a traceroute and see.

 

Matt

 

 

186 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:18am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC -- is off the front page captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

For a rewrite perhaps? In fact I can't find it anymore just by going

through the site.

 

 

187 From: "Paige"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:22am

Subject: Chat paige452@...

Send Email

 

Is the chat broken?

 

I want people's url's so I can add them to my links page on my

website..

 

 

188 From: Matthew Haughey

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:26am

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC -- is off the front page matt@...

Send Email

 

On 12:18 AM 5/23/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:

>For a rewrite perhaps? In fact I can't find it anymore just by going

>through the site.

 

I see it here, seems that most of the images are gone:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/576899.asp

 

Matt

 

 

189 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:24am

Subject: Re: MeFi down again? captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

So are you not getting pummeled?

 

I guess it would be hard to find out, considering no one can get to

the site.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> On 10:21 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, pamela@m... wrote:

> >Or is it just me? (Fyi, it's 5:20 pm cST.)

>

> There's a router problem upstream, sirius.net seems to have screwed

> something up (or cut off the entire pyra office). Do a traceroute

and see.

>

> Matt

 

 

190 From: "Paige"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:25am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC -- is off the front page paige452@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

>

> For a rewrite perhaps? In fact I can't find it anymore just by

going

> through the site.

 

No, it's still on the site, under the Technology section you can find

it.. Guess it wasn't generating a reaction as they had hoped.

 

 

191 From: "Paige"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:31am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC -- is off the front page paige452@...

Send Email

 

Oh, I see what they've done. They've moved the picture down lower so

that you only see it when you find out Kaycee was not a real person,

and they added in that people got gifts in return.. :)

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:

> On 12:18 AM 5/23/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:

> >For a rewrite perhaps? In fact I can't find it anymore just by

going

> >through the site.

>

> I see it here, seems that most of the images are gone:

> http://www.msnbc.com/news/576899.asp

>

> Matt

 

 

192 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:38am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

> What is probably going to be much more interesting than the twisted

> quirks of the perpetrators psyche, is the spin the media will put on

> this. Rather than highlighting how this came to light and that the web

> community is doing a fair job of self-policing it will be put out as

> another example of internet abuse.

 

I don't think the web community did a good job of self-policing at all. It took *two* *years* before the doubters could work up enough courage to ignore all the brays of "Cynic!" and "Heartless!" and finally pursue things. Once that happened, it fell apart with amazing speed. But the clues have been there for months.

 

I have seen an online discussion from last September where someone raised doubts about Kaycee, and was crushed socially by the "web community" (especially by BWG). What this really revealed was the tyranny of the majority.

 

I'm sorry. I see nothing positive in this at all.

 

 

193 From:

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:42am

Subject: Re: MeFi down again? jr@...

Send Email

 

I did a trace and it seems that they did screw something up with the router. On a trace, meta filter is bouncing between two IP addresses.

 

bdr1.sntccaidc.firstworld.net [205.134.254.38]

border-sf-s8-0-0.sirius.com [205.134.254.37]

 

basically, all you do is bounce back and forth and never get anywhere close to the server(s). Just thought people might wanna know. Can't do anything till its fixed.

 

- J.R.

www.logboy.com/jr/

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Matthew Haughey

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:20 PM

Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole MeFi down again?

 

 

On 10:21 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, pamela@midnightgarden.com wrote:

>Or is it just me? (Fyi, it's 5:20 pm cST.)

 

There's a router problem upstream, sirius.net seems to have screwed

something up (or cut off the entire pyra office). Do a traceroute and see.

 

Matt

 

 

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

 

 

 

 

194 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:57am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC -- hey Mr. Sullivan captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

"Now, no one is sure who was in those pictures."

 

Mr. Sullivan, can you post here (since I know you're reading) why you

won't say it was Julie Fullbright in the photos? I think that's been

pretty conclusively proven.

 

Or at least that internet folks or MetaFilter posters found evidence

of who's photos got hijacked.

 

Why aren't you crediting MetaFilter with some the quotes, btw? I'm

not saying you should, I just don't know why you aren't.

 

"Either way, it is yet another cautionary tale about not believing

everything you read, a maxim that is probably no truer online than in

any other place in life."

 

That however, is a great, fair quote.

 

And I'm glad you pointed out the guy who gave up his hoax.

 

 

195 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:05am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC mail@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Rory Ewins wrote:

> It's amazing that this case has been cracked, but imagine if a

couple

> of key elements were missing: namely, the daughter-created Kaycee

> pages, and the surname of the family in that NYT article. The

author

> would almost certainly *never* have been uncovered.

 

She rented a P.O. box from the U.S. Postal Service and used it on a

Web site where she did business. That element had to be missing too

(for those who are scheming at home), otherwise her name was

available to the public for the asking.

 

 

196 From: Al Sessions

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:02am

Subject: Re: Re: That story in MSNBC al@...

Send Email

 

sdenbes1@... wrote:

>> What is probably going to be much more interesting than the twisted

>> quirks of the perpetrators psyche, is the spin the media will put on

>> this. Rather than highlighting how this came to light and that the web

>> community is doing a fair job of self-policing it will be put out as

>> another example of internet abuse.

 

> I don't think the web community did a good job of self-policing at

> all. It took *two* *years* before the doubters could work up enough

> courage to ignore all the brays of "Cynic!" and "Heartless!" and

> finally pursue things. Once that happened, it fell apart with

> amazing speed. But the clues have been there for months.

 

I see your point.

 

However, up until the 'death' of Kaycee there was really no reason to

investigate further. I like to believe that most people are trusting,

without a reason for doubt, why would anyone question it? When there

was a legitimate reason concern it was sorted out in a matter of days.

 

Courage? Since when does it take any courage to accuse a stranger of

fraud? I imagine I could accuse you of not being you, though I fail to

see what purpose it would serve. I lied about info on my domain

registration, that would be a 'clue'.

 

'Finally pursue' things? It was a witch hunt, that's all. There are

not many people who actually suffered, those who did have my sympathy;

but the majority of posts on various boards are by people who had

little interest until it was revealed as a hoax. I have news for you,

it is not against the law to make people look like idiots.

 

> I have seen an online discussion from last September where someone

> raised doubts about Kaycee, and was crushed socially by the "web

> community" (especially by BWG). What this really revealed was the

> tyranny of the majority.

 

Tyranny of the majority? You mean the minuscule number of people who

advocated her existence when it was questioned? The day the 'web

community' has the power to crush me socially is the day I throw this

monitor through my window.

 

> I'm sorry. I see nothing positive in this at all.

 

Well, it's damn good entertainment. That's why most of us are here,

that's why Matt is taking such a huge hit on bandwidth, that's why

MSNBC cares.

 

It may possibly make people more cautious before they send gifts

(money?) to total strangers. It shows that a small group of aware

people can affect change. Julie may get a gig on a morning talk show,

Debbie may get the help she so desperately needs, and BWG may think

twice before he designs websites and advocates for someone *he has

never met*.

 

 

--

Al Sessions

al@...

http://fatuos.com

 

 

197 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:09am

Subject: Photo of Debbie? captcrackpipe@...

198 From: clstamper@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:17am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? clstamper@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

>

> http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

 

Two words: "Glamour Shots."

 

Stamper ---> http://www.netslaves.com/comments/990564969.shtml

 

 

199 From: "Ray Mikell"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:18am

Subject: Re: Netslaves Article raysmj@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Rory Ewins wrote:

> >I wrote up a rant last night about L'affair Kaycee that is now

online:

> >http://www.netslaves.com/comments/990564969.shtml

> >

> >Feel free to shred me. ;)

>

> No shredding... but a comment on your comment: 'Truth is, people

> should have caught on to the fiction. The writings of "Kaycee" are

> just too cutesy, too pious, and too stoic to mesh with reality.

> Digging through her Weblog, you half expect her to put on her Tiny

> Tim costume and shout "God bless us, every one!"'

 

Or to sing, "Tiptoe Through the Tulips," by the other Tiny Tim,

followed by a speech about how "freedom isn't free" or something

equally bizarre.

 

 

200 From: "Eve"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:22am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links angelwng@...

 

This is the picture I had seen colorized green on a shamrock on the

site in March - (I had asked if anyone remembered it, but that got

lost in the crowd) - now, if it's really Debbie Swenson is another

thing.

 

Also, could someone please post the sites like Gracemont High School

for the connections to Julie, please? I've done searches for

Gracemont High, but can't find anything that fills in this detail.

Guess I'm just wanting to see the trail with my own eyes.

 

Thanks!

 

 

201 From: ryspatty@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:23am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? ryspatty@...

Send Email

 

That's the one! I remembered seeing it once on her blog and was

wondering if it might show up. I had it in mind when she did the post

about the two of them, all blonde and perky, charming a patrolman a

couple of weeks ago. I especially liked the part where he thought

they were sisters. (barf)

 

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

>

> http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

 

 

202 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:31am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

I think we got there through here.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/

 

The BBall schedule is for Gracemont Junior High.

 

(I just thought of this. They have that so they could follow Julie

around. God that's scary.)

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Eve" wrote:

> > http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

>

> This is the picture I had seen colorized green on a shamrock on the

> site in March - (I had asked if anyone remembered it, but that got

> lost in the crowd) - now, if it's really Debbie Swenson is another

> thing.

>

> Also, could someone please post the sites like Gracemont High

School

> for the connections to Julie, please? I've done searches for

> Gracemont High, but can't find anything that fills in this detail.

> Guess I'm just wanting to see the trail with my own eyes.

>

> Thanks!

 

 

203 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:33am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy." wrote:

>

> http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

 

I don't understand this. It appears to have been posted on Monday, yet the discovery of Julie's true identity only happened this morning.

 

 

204 From: "You may call me sammy."

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:36am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? captcrackpipe@...

Send Email

 

Uh, no. I think we discovered Debbie Saturday or early Sunday.

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

wrote:

> >

> > http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

>

> I don't understand this. It appears to have been posted on Monday,

yet the discovery of Julie's true identity only happened this morning.

 

 

205 From: khalloran1@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:51am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC khalloran1@...

Send Email

 

> I don't think the web community did a good job of self-policing at all. It took

*two* *years* before the doubters could work up enough courage to ignore

all the brays of "Cynic!" and "Heartless!" and finally pursue things. Once that

happened, it fell apart with amazing speed. But the clues have been there for

months.

 

"And that brave little heartless cynic was phooey. And acridrabbit. And

tiffany. And..." ;)

 

> I have seen an online discussion from last September where someone

raised doubts about Kaycee, and was crushed socially by the "web

community" (especially by BWG). What this really revealed was the tyranny of

the majority.

 

That, and the tyranny of sanctimony. I recall a few laughably despicable

posts in which people still wanted to declare themselves "the better human

being" (can't link to post as MeFi is down plus it isn't that important) even as

things began to fall apart. BWG's attitude is at least a little more

understandable since his stake in it was so personal.

 

In this case the "victim" was not only perfect for stretching heartstrings, she

was perfect for ego projection. This is one of the reasons this will be a

compelling case for sociological and psychological study for years to come.

 

> I'm sorry. I see nothing positive in this at all.

 

Are you _sure_ you're not available Friday? ;)

 

 

206 From: clstamper@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:00am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links clstamper@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."

 

> The BBall schedule is for Gracemont Junior High.

>

> (I just thought of this. They have that so they could follow Julie

> around. God that's scary.)

 

Did you ever see the movie "Bowfinger?"

 

Stamper

 

 

207 From: chris_san@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:06am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links chris_san@...

Send Email

 

>

> Did you ever see the movie "Bowfinger?"

>

> Stamper

 

"Happy premise number three: even though I sometimes feel I'm about

to ignite... I probably won't."

 

Stamper - are you implying Julie has a lookalike sister....? ;-)

 

Chris

 

 

208 From: "Tiffany Ring"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:21am

Subject: RE: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links tif@...

Send Email

 

The link to the High School b-ball is http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/gracemont As far as I can tell, it isn't linked anywhere. I don't recall which one of us found that section - but I'm assuming they looked at the source code for the Jr. High header and found that directory. Once that was found, I remembered seeing a picture of "Kaycee" with the number 10 on her uniform. Found out #10 was Julie, and found a picture on that, at the same time someone else hit Google or something and found the snu picture :-)

 

Tiffany Ring-Mulroy

  • Deco-Rations Design

 

  • Intellectual Suicide

 

-----Original Message-----

From: You may call me sammy. [mailto:captcrackpipe@yahoo.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:32 PM

To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com

Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links

 

 

 

I think we got there through here.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/

 

The BBall schedule is for Gracemont Junior High.

 

(I just thought of this. They have that so they could follow Julie

around. God that's scary.)

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Eve" wrote:

> > http://www.vanderwoning.ca/archives/2001may20.html#scam

>

> This is the picture I had seen colorized green on a shamrock on the

> site in March - (I had asked if anyone remembered it, but that got

> lost in the crowd) - now, if it's really Debbie Swenson is another

> thing.

>

> Also, could someone please post the sites like Gracemont High

School

> for the connections to Julie, please? I've done searches for

> Gracemont High, but can't find anything that fills in this detail.

> Guess I'm just wanting to see the trail with my own eyes.

>

> Thanks!

 

 

 

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209 From: sdenbes1@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:39am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? sdenbes1@...

Send Email

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy." wrote:

>

> Uh, no. I think we discovered Debbie Saturday or early Sunday.

 

I don't mean that. The same entry also contains the proper identity for Julie. The entry is dated Monday. Julie's identity was discovered this morning.

 

 

210 From: "Sara"

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:44am

Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? sarapture@...

Send Email

 

Actually, Julie's identity was discovered yesterday/last night...

 

 

Also, regarding Debbie, haven't we already established that this is

most likely her?:

 

http://home.switchboard.com/swensonupdates

 

 

--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:

> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy." wrote:

> >

> > Uh, no. I think we discovered Debbie Saturday or early Sunday.

>

> I don't mean that. The same entry also contains the proper identity for Julie. The entry is dated Monday. Julie's identity was discovered this morning.

 

 

211 From: velocityiseverything@...

Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:54am

Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC velocityiseverything@...

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--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Rory Ewins wrote:

>

> She's the subject of the pictures, not the photographer. She

doesn't

> own the copyright. Someone does - I guess for some of those

pictures,

> it's Julie's family, or even Debbie.

 

Julie would have to give a model release to the photographer to be

published or he would have had to certify he had copyright on the

photo to let others use it for commercial purposes.

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