wrote:
> This is real? "Don't be so darned gullible"?
>
> Well, shucks.
>
> I would have laughed if it wasn't a little scarey.
Sounds to me like he's probably fishing for an ourcry of outrage and
justifications from the 'Net community (especially those intimately
involved.) I wouldn't give him the attention he seems to crave with
a reply.
612 From: z_zz_z_zz_z@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:07pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 z_zz_z_zz_z@...
Send Email
> What really caught my attention was to see how far those
> who hardly knew this fake blogs even existed, were willing
> to go in order to crack the case. I can understand why from
> a journalistic point of view some would be interested. But
> what about all the others who joined the fray.
Pretend that there's a mystery in front of you, and all you have to do to s=
olve it is spend a little time clicking around or making a few phone calls a=
nd interacting with others who are doing the same. It was a mystery - there'=
s nothing more intriguing than a mystery, particularly when you may have the=
means to SOLVE the mystery sitting right in front of you.
> Then again, isn't that what blogging is all about, a community of
> online journals where people more or less compete for attention?
I'm not quite sure how posting your thoughts and ideas and writing on the w=
eb is competing. This reminds me of how English teachers make you dissect p=
oetry, thinking that that's the way to understand it, or how the poem came a=
bout, and it doesn't even TOUCH on it. The energy that brings a weblog into=
creation can't be understood by looking at the end product and comparing th=
em to each other, or even by looking at webloggers who talk about stats. Tw=
o different things.
> From what I've observed, no matter how trivial the subject matter
> is, the more readers visit the more admired and respected the
> writer becomes.
Your observations may help you pinpoint trends after the fact, but not moti=
vations or inspirations.
Also, ever heard of a 'meme' - it's not just a 'net thing, it happens in 'r=
eal life' all the time. It's just more obvious on the net because it tends =
to happen more quickly and you can watch the trail of links.
> Which brings me back to Debbie's apparent original intent. This
> all seems to me like nothing more than a quest for acceptance and
> love, and evidence as to what lengths some are willing to go in
> order to feel worthy of such attention.
I can't argue with you there.
> I agree with those who say that the only REAL people hurt by all
> of this are few and far between.
I think if people believe they are hurt, then they are. Who are you or I t=
o dispute that based on some objective criteria?
> I've spoken to many friends about this story that have never
> heard of blogging. Their reaction was actually quite placid.
> In other words, I barely got nod or heard the clichéd "what's the
> world coming to" reaction.
Well, I blog. I didn't hear about the kaycee thing until after. I read up =
here to see what's happening next. Isn't that why people read books? Watch=
> Those of us who've been a round a while have witnessed many
> examples of Internet deception over the years. Married people
> for instance, pretending to be successful singles, looking for
> thrills borders on the absolute ridiculous. Little gifts and
> cards are constantly being exchanged, yet as far as I know,
> nobody has ever been hospitalized for the disease of humiliation.
> Loosing face is a real bitch, but in time we've all had to bear
> our shame as gracefully as we could. TV newsmagazine programs
> thrive on stories of Internet child abductions and the like, but
> never report the good and positive aspects of the Internet.
> Judging by the success of these idiot so-called "reality" shows,
> we seem to have become a society of thrill seekers who dismiss
> the virtuous as boring, and who prefer concentrating on the
> sensational and the malicious flourishing in the chaos of it
> all. So how is this latest scandal any different?
Who says it is? I can respect your opinions here, of course, even if I don=
't share them. I'd like to offer another option for you too - perhaps you c=
an consider that there are others who have NOT had your 'widely traveled' ex=
periences or observational abilities and who ARE experiencing things like th=
is for the first time. And if they are not, people follow this thread for t=
heir own reasons, I'm sure none of them are the same as anyone else's.
> My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate
> crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously
> penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that
> can prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk
> down Main Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't
> know about you all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my
> own health concerns, which in the face of all of this I'm loathe
> to mention in any of the forums I belong to, I'd be willing to
> pluck the 1st duck.
Why should ducks have to suffer?
I can recognize that you may be undergoing a "legitimate" health crisis (al=
though you didn't say that specifically, I understand.) But belittling other=
people because you don't see THEIR pain as real, seems pointless - there's =
no way to compare.
And why, if you say that you see someone who was just reaching out for love=
and attention, do you think an excellent response would be to tar and feath=
er? Your post seemed to be attempting to dismiss the situation in some way.=
You don't really need a REASON to dismiss it - just let it go. And you do=
n't need a REASON to accept that you are undergoing difficulty, and it doesn=
't have to be proven to be any more and less painful than anyone else's to b=
e valid.
ZZ
613 From: dominique@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...
Send Email
Well, ZZ (or whoever you really are) it sorta goes like this. I
don't mind if you disagree with me. As far as I can tell the point of
this forum is to offer different points of view, and I can accept
yours without feeling personally disapproved of. For those same
reasons, I don't feel as though I need to justify every syllable,
word, or paragraph to you either. Furthermore, the exact natures of
my health concerns are none of your business. Suffice it to say
though, that because of this er… mystery as you call it (and
especially in light of it's aftermath), I find that I'm powerless to
share them period. That should be enough of an explanation for
anybody reading this for the 1st time, or the millionth time
regardless of their skills.
Now on the the show... I'm certainly interested in reading more
newspaper articles.
614 From: bellarthur@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 6:45pm
Subject: UK media coverage bellarthur@...
Send Email
Readers in the UK will wish to know that Monday's Guardian newspaper
will be publishing a feature on the Kaycee hoax. This is a
nationally-distributed broadsheet paper, widely respected as one of
the papers of record.
The article *may* be available on the media section's website, <
www.mediaguardian.co.uk > from around midnight British time (1900
Sunday EDT) As Monday is a public holiday in the UK, the article may
not be uploaded until midnight Tuesday morning (1900 Monday EDT)
A summary will be forwarded to this group in about 24 hours.
615 From: "Skysage"
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...
Send Email
Most excellent points, Dominique.
Though I have seen my fair share of BS on the net in the past six
years my over all experiences have been quite positive.
My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16
years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other 2
years ago due to the Internet.
616 From: BeanSprouts@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 3:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: In reply to message 228 BeanSprouts@...
writes:
My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16
years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other 2
years ago due to the Internet.
wow. thats awesome.
617 From: "Skysage"
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:34pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
skysage5@y...
> writes:
>
>
> > My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16
> > years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each
other 2
> > years ago due to the Internet.
>
>
> wow. thats awesome.
It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those years I
held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so long
that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the
system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.
618 From: "Skysage"
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 7:38pm
Subject: current events? skysage5@...
Send Email
It seems that all the message boards and media have beaten this story
to death. We are all perfectly informed or should I say over informed
as to the events.
I became aware of "Kaycee" about a week before she "died." I felt
saddened that I hadn't been able to get to know her while she
was "alive." So that was the extent of it for me.
Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges going to be
filed against Debbie?
619 From: dominique@...
Date: Sun May 27, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> Most excellent points, Dominique.
>
> Though I have seen my fair share of BS on the net in the past six
> years my over all experiences have been quite positive.
>
> My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex husband. After 16
> years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching we found each other
2
> years ago due to the Internet.
All I can say to that is BRAVO! And thank you for sharing your story.
620 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:58am
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
> skysage5@y...
> > writes:
> >
> >
> It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those years
I
> held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so
long
> that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the
> system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.
so like how do you get along now?
you don't let him smoke in your house and his girlfriends are well,
just trailer park trash and you hate his harley and all the noise it
makes and his tattoos and earrings are really over the top...
621 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 4:09am
Subject: Re: Editorial from the Newton Kansan bonni@...
Send Email
Damn stupid people, tryin' to find things out about people. It's only
the innernet! Quit believin' there are REAL people out there! Lookee,
just only pay attention to big, corporate, reputable websites and
stop givin' a hoot about them little personal sites! After all, the
big, scary, ol' innernet is about commerce, innit?
bonni
http://bonni.net/
622 From: saundra@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:03pm
Subject: Media Coverage in Italy saundra@...
Send Email
I have no idea what this says, but I suspect it's somewhat scathing.
Italia Online
http://scanali:sc2k!@.../societa/primopiano.html
Saundra
623 From: "Meg Pickard"
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:23pm
Subject: UK media coverage: The Guardian meg@...
Send Email
As mentioned yesterday, The Guardian provides insightful and fair coverage of the whole saga:
624 From: "Meg Pickard"
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 2:24pm
Subject: Guardian Coverage meg@...
Send Email
(itchy trigger finger, sorry)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,497422,00.html
Meg
>
hello@notsosoft.com
www.notsosoft.com
625 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 5:27pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 angelwng@...
Send Email
First, I've heard other people feel that they can't share openly now,
for fear of being doubted or Scooby'ed - I really don't get that. I
think that plenty of folks read what's written in journals and blogs
and either don't believe it, don't like it, or don't trust it - or
they love it, believe it, and find inspiration from it - nothing
truly changes because of this. If someone wants to share their
experience, they should do it for the reasons they already have. If
you want to keep your thoughts private for fear of what anyone else
will think, keep it private.
Dominique, if you were loathe to mention your health problems, you
wouldn't have, and if you think that punishing Debbie will bring back
your ability to post your thoughts without scrutiny, it's way to late
for that - that train left the station years ago. Being around the
web so long, though, you should realize that this was *far* from the
first online hoax, and it most certainly will not be the last.
My suggestion for anyone who interacts with people in any way, is to
find their own voice and simply use it.
Two quotes fit nicely - "To thine own self be true." ~Shakespeare
and "You must be the change you'd like to see in the world." ~Ghandi
>... My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate
crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously
penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that can
prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk down Main
Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't know about you
all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my own health concerns,
which in the face of all of this I'm loathe to mention in any of the
forums I belong to, I'd be willing to pluck the 1st duck.
>
> Dominique
626 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 5:36pm
Subject: Re: current events? truesolace00@...
Send Email
based on current press information the case has been turned over to
the fbi on possible charges of mail fraud--no word on if arrests have
been made or if criminal charges will be filed.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> It seems that all the message boards and media have beaten this
story
> to death. We are all perfectly informed or should I say over
informed
> as to the events.
>
> I became aware of "Kaycee" about a week before she "died." I felt
> saddened that I hadn't been able to get to know her while she
> was "alive." So that was the extent of it for me.
>
> Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges going to be
> filed against Debbie?
627 From: dhartung@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:13pm
Subject: Re: current events? dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> > Anyway...anyway... what happens from here? Are charges
> > going to be filed against Debbie?
> based on current press information the case has been turned
> over to the fbi on possible charges of mail fraud--no word on
> if arrests have been made or if criminal charges will be filed.
All we really know is that various law-enforcement agencies have been
made aware and are looking into it, the FBI included. There was an
off-the-record indication that, short of some magical figure around
$20,000, federal charges were unlikely. (The recent well-publicized
series of 68 arrests for internet fraud, mostly in online auctions
etc., worked out to an average of more than that scammed per case --
I think around $25,000, or some 50-100 times the apparent sum total
of gifts collected in Kaycee's name. With sharks like that around,
nobody's going to bother with a guppy.)
628 From: dhartung@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:22pm
Subject: Re: Media Coverage in Italy dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> I have no idea what this says, but I suspect it's
> somewhat scathing.
>
> Italia Online
> http://scanali:sc2k!@.../societa/primopiano.html
Babelfished:
::soi-disant translation::
edited by Lorenza Provenzano
Impossible to visualize the person
One life like one page web: totally virtual and next to definitively
being archiviata in the limbo of the pages impossible to visualize,
those that error 404 gives. This has been in synthesis the parabola
of the virtual existence of Kaycee Nicole Swenson, beautiful and
blond diciannovenne of the Kansas, whose sorriso angelic it appeared
only light clouded from the serious disease. Brave and optimistic,
Kaycee has not faticato to make rubble in the heart of the migliaia
of navigators who have shared with she the suffering of the leucemia,
donandole cappellini when it cried on the sfoltimento of the chioma
to continuation of the chemioterapiche cures, spendendole to weave in
order to acquire books online when it was immobilized to bed and
money in order to support the economic efforts of the mother,
licenziatasi for starle near. Between an email and chattata one,
Kaycee had also the time for rilasciare interviews to the New York
Times and speaking to the telephone with the known friends online.
One what inexplicably refused to make: to meet of person how many
they continued to sostenerla with friendship, affection and moral
support. Without warning, 14 past May a scarno communicated of the
mother Debbie Swenson has announced, on the situated one web of
Kaycee, the passing of the girl. While the cordoglio general it found
echo on the tens of situated dedicated to Kaycee, at the same time
they took to body the first suspiciones on this sweet girl from the
writing much strangely tied adult and to music of years ' 70 and ' 80
more than to that one of its contemporarys.
Merit of weblogger the Sandra Mitchell, author also she of a per diem
online, and a group of chattisti intentional having to make light on
the entire vicissitude. The conclusion of surveying you make from you
has arrived like one cold shower: no Kaycee Nicole Swenson turned out
from the directory of the deceaseds in the citizen of Peabody, in the
Kansas. And the photos, the mother, the disease? All false.
While unaware of university of the Oklahoma the Julie Fullbright she
discovered to have unconsciously lend for two years just the face to
a drama of all the virtual one, little little the truth emerged in
surface. Beautiful and the ill-fated one diciannovenne existed,
beyond that in the heart of migliaia of navigators, solo in the sick
mind of the forty-years old Debbie Swenson, sedicente mother of the
girl. Putting to the grips, the Swenson has confessed of being the
author of the dichiarandosi mistificazione and has motivated the
entire impostura moved from desire to render honor to the memory of
three friends dead women for leucemia. Affaire Swenson hour will
enrich the lawyers of the fantasiosa mrs., while the history leaves
in all a bitter retrogusto.
In a recent page of its per diem online, Sandra Mitchell writes a
ironico vademecum from the title " your guide in order to simulate
one life and one virtual dead women ": six bored, appeal to to you to
write, your life are lacking in sense? Not to fear, assures the
Mitchell sarcasticamente, always can inventarti a life parallel and a
bogus identity that emphasis gives to your existence. Who begins with
imagining wants to be, where six NATO, where you live, what you make,
which is preferred yours rock band and above all it thinks: what can
render dramatic and worthy of famous your new life?
::end soi-disant translation::
(I do so love babelfishing romance langauges: because of the words
left in that it can't parse, it always ends up sounding like a
Hollywood-style foreign lover. Basta! Sarcasticamente! Google
translations are better, but you can't make it translate random text.)
(Btw, babelfish.altavista.com now has a link to an Adams tribute.)
629 From: "Skysage"
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 7:41pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> > --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
> > skysage5@y...
> > > writes:
> > >
> > >
> > It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too. All those
years
> I
> > held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He stayed 3 for so
> long
> > that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a shock to the
> > system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.
>
> so like how do you get along now?
>
> you don't let him smoke in your house and his girlfriends are well,
> just trailer park trash and you hate his harley and all the noise
it
> makes and his tattoos and earrings are really over the top...
He is a wonderful man.
630 From: dominique@...
Date: Mon May 28, 2001 9:32pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 dominique@...
Send Email
You're right of course. I'm not Debbie and my decision to share my
story or not, would never be the same as hers. At the time of my
post, the story was still only a few hours old to me. It was a sort
of knee jerk reaction to something I had written in a small and
private forum only the week before about my condition. I had planned
to share more in time, but once I read about this hoax, I felt
personally violated and cheated, even though I had never heard of
this person before. In a nutshell, I was afraid of being doubted now.
Also, my rather glib remarks about punishing Debbie with tar and
feathers were not meant seriously. After reading more about this
story, I realized that she probably received the punishment she
deserved. She has been made into an example before the entire
world. Hopefully this situation will cause others like her to think
twice before trying something like this again.
In closing, I can only pray that she devoted all of her time and
energies into her Kaycee persona, and that there are no more "Doctor
Debbie and Mrs. Hides" out there lurking and waiting for her to just
pick-up where she left off.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Cheryl Eve" wrote:
> First, I've heard other people feel that they can't share openly
now,
> for fear of being doubted or Scooby'ed - I really don't get that.
I
> think that plenty of folks read what's written in journals and
blogs
> and either don't believe it, don't like it, or don't trust it - or
> they love it, believe it, and find inspiration from it - nothing
> truly changes because of this. If someone wants to share their
> experience, they should do it for the reasons they already have. If
> you want to keep your thoughts private for fear of what anyone else
> will think, keep it private.
>
> Dominique, if you were loathe to mention your health problems, you
> wouldn't have, and if you think that punishing Debbie will bring
back
> your ability to post your thoughts without scrutiny, it's way to
late
> for that - that train left the station years ago. Being around the
> web so long, though, you should realize that this was *far* from
the
> first online hoax, and it most certainly will not be the last.
>
> My suggestion for anyone who interacts with people in any way, is
to
> find their own voice and simply use it.
>
> Two quotes fit nicely - "To thine own self be true." ~Shakespeare
> and "You must be the change you'd like to see in the world." ~Ghandi
>
> >... My only REAL sorrow is for those who are undergoing legitimate
> crises in their lives, and who will most likely be seriously
> penalized because of this one little story. The only thing that
can
> prevent this from happening is if Debbie is forced to walk down
Main
> Street wearing nothing but tar and feathers. I don't know about
you
> all, but if I weren't so busy dealing with my own health concerns,
> which in the face of all of this I'm loathe to mention in any of
the
> forums I belong to, I'd be willing to pluck the 1st duck.
> >
> > Dominique
631 From: "simply caren."
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 0:47am
Subject: go on vacation and return to this... caren@...
Send Email
whoa! too many messages to read, anyone mind posting links to
articles that i may have missed while i was gone? (23-27)
glad to see that everything has unfolded and that julie has done
interviews, etc. hope that she is doing well...
632 From: acridrabbit@...
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 3:12am
Subject: amazing entry from kristin acridrabbit@...
Send Email
Kristin Thomas is ...
really smart, really articulate, and really authentic. I lub her.
Please read this:
http://www.sperare.com/archives/may01/25may01.html
I'm not Kristin, I'm just an admirer.
633 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: The Most Interesting Media Coverage saundra@...
Send Email
Because Nua Internet Surveys has turned this into a lesson for people
who run online businesses. Kinda neat!
http://www.nua.ie/surveys/analysis/weekly_editorial.html
Saundra
635 From: "Tim Cunningham"
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 5:17pm
Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin timmopussycat@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., acridrabbit@g... wrote:
> Please read this post from Kristin Thomas
> http://www.sperare.com/archives/may01/25may01.html
It seems that Kristin is suggesting among other things, many of
which are commendable, that BWG and Halcyon may not be as innocent as
they claim, since they gained considerable benefit while the hoax was
on.
While I have no wish to be considered a bully or a zealot, I must
suggest that, at present, such a claim is not justified by the known
facts. So far, their stories jibe, unlike Debbie's which has fallen
apart completely.
[This is not to say that they might not have come down too
heavily on the initial doubters - which is another issue - but their
family members (with pre-existing journals) have confirmed that they
had very strong reasons for believing in Kaycee's existance and
condition, and their reactions if not correct are in that context
understandable.]
The question is not did they gain the mentioned benefits; but did
they gain those benefits as a byproduct of their being deceived like
many of us, or were they active participants in the deception? We had
objective evidence early on that suggested that Kaycee was not as she
appeared to be. Unless similar evidence is produced which either
shows or suggests that Halcyon and BWG have mislead us as to the
nature of their involvement, implicit accusations of their
participation in the hoax are premature and unhelpful both to finding
out the truth and to BWG and Halcyon.
636 From: "John Harris Stevenson <tranquileye.com>"
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 7:13pm
Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin tranquileye@...
Send Email
Is it possible that Halcyon and/or BWG suspected that Kaycee was not
real, or were somehow involved in the hoax? It is possible, but there
is a significant logical leap between that possibility and any actual
evidence that they were somehow in on it.
Having read through BWG's lengthy "press release" about his long
relationship with "Kaycee"/Debbie, I can understand his situation. He
appears to have been the victim of an elaborate ruse, and I am sure
he is embarrassed about his angry reaction to those who doubted
Kaycee's existence.
One thing I want to warn against is too much unwarranted speculation
that might damage someone's reputation. During the Metafilter
sleuthing I speculated that a certain blogger might have been
involved in the hoax, with little more than circumstantial evidence
to back me up. While I suppose it helped move things along, it also
called into question the reputation of someone I didn't know, and
that was unfair.
John S
637 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 8:08pm
Subject: Follow the money... feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
Who had tangible benefit from promoting the KC Nicole fraud?
Certainly 'Debbie' with her PO Box in Newton, KS. I wonder if she
declared all the cash on her taxes, IRS may want to audit her
accounts.
BWG with all the free advertising he got from all the traffic going
to his domain to follow the KC weblog and later 'Debbie's'. What if
he is really a Red ChiCom agent trying to sow confusion and doubt in
the US thru PsyWar techniques?
Halcyon certainly spends a lot of time shamelessly promoting himself
and BWG, maybe 'Debbie' and BWG were kicking back part of the take.
Has anyone called the Newton Post Office and asked if any of the
backroom clerks who pitch the mail at the PO Boxes remember the
volume of stuff coming in for 'KC'? Especially letters cash versus
packages teddie bears...
It seems Robert Blake's wife had many aliases and perhaps more than
one drop box where she got money from lonely old guys in exhange for
old dirty pictures of herself, maybe I will start a weblog from her
because she really wasn't killed in North Hollywood that was a
standin ho...
638 From: acridrabbit@...
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 11:13pm
Subject: a somewhat-related article about photos used without permission acridrabbit@...
Send Email
While the FBI may not pursue this, the Fullbrights could certainly
sue. They'd probably win. This article talks about a fellow who
sued an agency over pictures of him used without his permission, and
similar historical cases.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
f=/c/a/2001/05/29/MN111723.DTL
(Be sure to copy the whole url into your address bar to view the
article)
639 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 11:55pm
Subject: Re: amazing entry from kristin raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "John Harris Stevenson
<tranquileye.com>" wrote:
> Is it possible that Halcyon and/or BWG suspected that Kaycee was
not
> real, or were somehow involved in the hoax? It is possible, but
there
> is a significant logical leap between that possibility and any
actual
> evidence that they were somehow in on it.
>
> Having read through BWG's lengthy "press release" about his long
> relationship with "Kaycee"/Debbie, I can understand his situation.
He
> appears to have been the victim of an elaborate ruse, and I am sure
> he is embarrassed about his angry reaction to those who doubted
> Kaycee's existence.
>
> One thing I want to warn against is too much unwarranted
speculation
> that might damage someone's reputation. During the Metafilter
> sleuthing I speculated that a certain blogger might have been
> involved in the hoax, with little more than circumstantial evidence
> to back me up. While I suppose it helped move things along, it also
> called into question the reputation of someone I didn't know, and
> that was unfair.
>
> John S
If you promote website's like Kaycee's, and promote yourself at the
same time -- or are involved in any site financially or as far as
control goes -- you set yourself up to be questioned and talked about
in such cases. Only if you're unfairly *charged* with criminal or
immoral activity could you consider your reputation unfairly
maligned. Being questioned or discussed is a totally different story.
UI don't think it's become the norm in America to have your own web
ssite with giant pics of your head (as a sort of logo) on them, or
endless pics of yourself or naked pics of yourself, along with
countless other naked people. The idea of "reputation" could be very
interesting to discuss here in a postmodern context, come to think of
it.
640 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 0:03am
Subject: Media Coverage - screen shots angelwng@...
Send Email
I was going through some files and had forgotten I had these. For
anyone who might have missed them, I've uploaded a screen shot of the
MSNBC technology cover with the picture of "Kaycee" and the
Oklahoman's article that included a picture of Julie with her mother -
I noticed that the Oklahoman no longer has the picture with the
article. I especially like the pic with Julie and her mom, because
Mrs. Fullbright has her hands on Julie's shoulders with a "this is
*my* daughter!" kind of protective expression.
They have their own folder in the "files" section. Feel free to add
them to your collections or archives if you like.
Enjoy
641 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 0:14am
Subject: Re: The Most Interesting Media Coverage angelwng@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> Because Nua Internet Surveys has turned this into a lesson for
people
> who run online businesses. Kinda neat!
>
> http://www.nua.ie/surveys/analysis/weekly_editorial.html
>
> Saundra
Interesting indeed - I'm also interested in the marketing angle of
promoting site "stickeiness" by building online communities. While
marketing folks consider this to be a great idea, the comments on the
MSNBC message board were a bit suprizing to me. They were primarily
comments about "come on people! the internet isn't real!" - and this
coming from folks posting to a technology board.
Do cases like this show us we're not ready for online "communities"?
are they merely a reflection of the things that happen in real life,
so not suprizing? are attitudes about the legitimacy of online
communication evolving to eventually include the understanding that
real people are typing the words and reading them - and not
somehow "unreal" just because they are on the internet?
Not being in the internet field professionally, I can only ask the
questions, but they are interesting to me.
642 From: Kerri Shafer
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Re: Re: In reply to message 228 kerrishafer2000@...
Send Email
I'm curious...
How did you finally find your son on the Internet?
I'm so glad you were able to be reunited with him!
Kerri
--- Skysage wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., BeanSprouts@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/27/01 7:18:58 PM !!!First
> Boot!!!,
> skysage5@y...
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > My 3 year old son was abducted in 1983 by my ex
> husband. After 16
> > > years of unbelievable heartbreak and searching
> we found each
> other 2
> > > years ago due to the Internet.
> >
> >
> > wow. thats awesome.
>
> It is awesome! It was quite a strange feeling too.
> All those years I
> held this three year old baby boy in my mind. He
> stayed 3 for so long
> that when we fist contacted eachother it was quite a
> shock to the
> system that he was suddenly a 19 year old man.
>
>
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
643 From: policraticus@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:03am
Subject: Shameless self-promotion policraticus@...
Send Email
Just a shameless plug for my thoughts on all this and for my
heavily underpublicised weblog...
http://www.historicalfact.com/~ark/quad/thoughts.shtml
=)
644 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:56am
Subject: CollegeClub.com angelwng@...
Send Email
Well, aren't I just posting up a storm here.... ;)
This may be old news; I don't remember if there was mention of a
College Club article here or not, but there is one up there now,
along with a picture of "Kaycee" photo-shopped onto a 'puter as an
illustration. There is a message board with comments from CC users as
well.
http://www.collegeclub.com/channels/channelarticle.asp?
id=15&article_id=35300
I've added a screenshot of the front page, in case anyone wants to
add it to their collection.
645 From: "elizAbeth"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:31am
Subject: referencing (sort of) this situation amazingjettgrrrl@...
and last week I e-mailed Joe Burns a couple of links regarding all of
this as it was breaking. He briefly touches on it in this week's
newsletter:
"ID theft is becoming a big problem on the Web. In an attempt to put
an end to it all, Representative Ron Paul of Texas is suggesting
scrapping the entire Social Security number process over the next
five years. He would like for people to be given a new number that
would be kept secret by the government. Furthermore Paul would like a
new system whereas a person's Social Security number would not be
used as an identifier. It's a thought, but I'll bet that "number kept
secret by the government" statement will be the death of the idea."
---Joe Burns, Ph.D.
646 From:
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:36am
Subject: Re: referencing (sort of) this situation jrs@...
Send Email
Dang..... you beat me to it...
> I receive the HTML Goodies ( http://www.htmlgoodies.com )newsletter,
> and last week I e-mailed Joe Burns a couple of links regarding all of
> this as it was breaking. He briefly touches on it in this week's
> newsletter:
>
> "ID theft is becoming a big problem on the Web. In an attempt to put
> an end to it all, Representative Ron Paul of Texas is suggesting
> scrapping the entire Social Security number process over the next
> five years. He would like for people to be given a new number that
> would be kept secret by the government. Furthermore Paul would like a
> new system whereas a person's Social Security number would not be
> used as an identifier. It's a thought, but I'll bet that "number kept
> secret by the government" statement will be the death of the idea."
> ---Joe Burns, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
647 From: "elizAbeth"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:20am
Subject: What kind of world... amazingjettgrrrl@...
Send Email
...do we live in when even Michael Stipe gets in on the act??
http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/05/25/esquire/index.html
*snicker*
648 From: "elizAbeth"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:21am
Subject: Re: What kind of world... amazingjettgrrrl@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "elizAbeth" wrote:
> ...do we live in when even Michael Stipe gets in on the act??
>
> http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2001/05/25/esquire/index.html
>
> *snicker*
BTW, I snagged that link from the last MeFi thread....don't think I
have seen it over here yet.
649 From: "Bonnie"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:08am
Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...
Send Email
I feel lucky that I came across the site 2 days after "Kaycee" had
"died". I read some of the posts, and like any human, cried over
them. But then the Sunday after that, I found out that it was all a
hoax, and I felt that it was all just a book that I'd been reading and
that Kaycee was a character in a book. That's what she is right?
A character in a virtual book. I'm glad that I didn't bother to write
Debbie any sympathy email. That would have been a waste of
my time, considering all that she lost in this was people's faith in
her.
650 From: yahoo@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:44am
Subject: Still Curious About the Press yahoo@...
Send Email
I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful
night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,
mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and what
ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a press
stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this forum and
chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did they ever do
any reporting on this matter?
651 From: rebeccablood@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: ABCNews "Wired Women" story rebeccablood@...
commendably, they don't use a picture of julie at all; they use
another blonde model with her face blurred out. :)
rcb
653 From: "Skysage"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:28pm
Subject: Re: Follow the money... skysage5@...
Send Email
Don't lose sight of the fact that all those hits cost BWG major
bucks.
654 From: "Skysage"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:40pm
Subject: Re: In reply to message 228 skysage5@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Kerri Shafer wrote:
> I'm curious...
>
> How did you finally find your son on the Internet?
>
> I'm so glad you were able to be reunited with him!
>
> Kerri
Thank you, Kerri,
It was surprisingly fast and easy. I was looking for a phone number
of a friend on Switchboard.com. I noticed they had a link to "missing
persons" so I checked it out. It was mostly filled with posts of
people looking up child hood friends and things of the like. So a
little lightbulb went off in my head. I went to the board for my
son's last known location which is also the area in which my ex's
family has lived for generations. I made a post including my son's
full bith name, date of birth, and that I have been searching for
him - with a few emotional details as well.
A few months later I got an email that stopped me in my
tracks. "Hello, Mom, this is your son, xxxxx.
After I stopped shaking I shot off an email to him. Then within
minutes I was struck with the thought that this may be a hoax. As we
are well aware, people do hurt people on line for whatever reason. I
wanted to be sure it was him. It was him. One of his friends had
seen my post on switchboard and told him about it.
I sent an email to Switchboard thanking them for bringing us
together. I was contacted by Kate Hedegus from switchboard and we
spoke via telephone and email as she followed this. Switchboard
wanted to use this for PR and said that they would like to reunite us
on the Today Show. My son was vehemently opposed to this and we
didn't take them up on it.
Sadly, I have yet to see my son in person.
655 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 4:56pm
Subject: Possible Swedish Coverage? saundra@...
Send Email
I'm not sure if this is a personal site or a magazine site (I'm not
even sure if it's Swedish, I'm just guessing) but it popped up in my
referrers:
http://www.tjejringen.com/nytt/
Saundra
656 From: b_cotten@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 5:02pm
Subject: THAT BITCH! b_cotten@...
Send Email
I feel wronged!
657 From: BeanSprouts@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 1:14pm
Subject: Re: THAT BITCH! BeanSprouts@...
Send Email
b_cotten@... writes...
<>
took you a while to get in touch with those deep-down angry feelings, eh?
658 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:00pm
Subject: Further Dispatches from Peabody saundra@...
Send Email
Rick Hattersley, from the Peabody Gazette, is running a follow-up
story on the whole matter; I'm not sure when it'll be online, though
it's apparently already in print. The URL is
http://www.peabodykansas.com - right now, just showing the article
from last week.
A stringer from the New York Times based out of Topeka visited the
Gazette, and Debbie yesterday, and they've both spoken with her.
Doesn't appear she skipped town. The last information I had about the
New York Times coverage is that the story would probably run tomorrow
(Thursday, May 31.)
And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not because
there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough crime
committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey now.
That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.
Saundra
659 From: "Skysage"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Further Dispatches from Peabody skysage5@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> Rick Hattersley, from the Peabody Gazette, is running a follow-up
> story on the whole matter; I'm not sure when it'll be online,
though
> it's apparently already in print. The URL is
> http://www.peabodykansas.com - right now, just showing the article
> from last week.
>
> A stringer from the New York Times based out of Topeka visited the
> Gazette, and Debbie yesterday, and they've both spoken with her.
> Doesn't appear she skipped town. The last information I had about
the
> New York Times coverage is that the story would probably run
tomorrow
> (Thursday, May 31.)
>
> And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not
because
> there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough
crime
> committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey
now.
> That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.
>
> Saundra
Geesh! If that's the requirement... how does one get others to give
them 19,999.99 and still be within the law? How did they come up with
that figure?
660 From: Adam Geitgey
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Further Dispatches from Peabody adam@...
Send Email
On Wed, 30 May 2001 19:08:50 -0000
"Skysage" wrote:
> > And word is that the FBI is not going to pursue the case, not
> because
> > there was no crime committed, but because there was not enough
> crime
> > committed. If Debbie had netted 20 grand, she'd be in the pokey
> now.
> > That's all from me, if I hear anything new, I'll pass it along.
> >
> > Saundra
>
> Geesh! If that's the requirement... how does one get others to give
> them 19,999.99 and still be within the law? How did they come up with
> that figure?
I've heard from FBI agents I've talked to that it depends on what happened.
Some types of crimes tend to get more attention from them than others,
depending on the current circumstances. Also, you usually have to demonstrate
a large financial loss. From what I understand it is usually a lot more than
20k, especially for businesses and such.
Adam
661 From: Adam Geitgey
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 7:40pm
Subject: Re: Still Curious About the Press adam@...
Send Email
On Wed, 30 May 2001 06:17:12 -0000
yahoo@... wrote:
> I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful
> night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,
> mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and what
> ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a press
> stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this forum and
> chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did they ever do
> any reporting on this matter?
Aero was a reporter from Hong Kong. They published their story(s) and the
link has been mentioned many times in the previous threads. They mentioned my
FAQ's url in one of the articles and I got around 25,000 hits from just their
users (a lot by my small standards). Look way back, I think it was one of the
first stories published. This person appeared on chat right after matt's
phone call and had talked to matt I believe, but I can't promise it is the
same person who called him (IE, that first call).
Adam
662 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: RWC Activist Article Live saundra@...
Send Email
The article in the RWC Activist went live on their site today, and was
also published in print. Here's the URL:
http://rwcactivist.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=77891
Saundra
663 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: Re: ABCNews "Wired Women" story mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., rebeccablood@y... wrote:
> <http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/WiredWomen/wiredwomen.html>
>>They e-mailed her. They called the family home in Kansas and
carried on telephone conversations with the ailing teen.<<
This part of the story makes it sound like people called up Debbie
Swenson out of the blue. "Hey, is Kaycee the dying cancer girl home?
Tell her an Internet weirdo would like to talk to her."
664 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:42pm
Subject: Re: Still Curious About the Press saundra@...
Send Email
> On Wed, 30 May 2001 06:17:12 -0000
> yahoo@i... wrote:
>
> I'm left with a couple questions about the press. On the eventful
> night of May 21st when the correct name of Julie was discovered,
> mathowie took a call from a member of the press. Who was it, and
> what ever became of that? Additionally, for the next 24 hours, a
> press stringer going by the handle Aero was quite active in this
> forum and chat. Whatever happened to Aero? Who was he/she, and did
> they ever do any reporting on this matter?
I believe that Aero is the member of the press to whom mathowie spoke;
the phone number was the same as the one Aero gave me, though I never
had any reason to call him. He was pulled in as a pro tem stringer
because he was the only one who knew much about the Internet. I don't
believe he did any reporting of his own (as his name might suggest, he
works for a plane-aero news publication, and this is a bit out of
their realm of coverage.)
Aero disappeared about the same time everyone abandoned the Yahoo!
chat for IRC. He was working mostly as a "voice from the inside" to
let us know what was going on in the journalistic circles- when the
story was going to hit the Associated Press, how many papers and news
outlets were working on stories about it. His number was three, and so
far, it's hit MSNBC, The Guardian, and will hit The New York Times
likely tomorrow- seems he was all he said he was. :) He also suggested
that tabloid television magazines like Inside Edition may be
interested, but he wasn't certain and I know I haven't heard anything
about it.
Saundra
665 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: Swenson Won't Be Charged mail@...
Hattersley is a good reporter. I love how Swenson continues to
express deep contrition but hasn't made any attempts to reimburse
people or send gifts back.
666 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:46pm
Subject: Re: Follow the money... feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Skysage" wrote:
> Don't lose sight of the fact that all those hits cost BWG major
> bucks.
But if you host two tear-jerker sites on your domain for a year and
they keep getting more popular you eventually have to pony up for
more bandwidth anyway...
And then you get real famous overnite coz 'Debbie' lets the cat out
of the bag, but remember there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity in
the media, as clinton, hillary, jesse and al sharpton can tell you...
So how come you don't just jump on a Greyhound and 'surprise' your ex
and your son? It be worth to see the looks on their faces...
667 From: roel@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 8:58pm
Subject: Dutch media roel@...
Send Email
I don't think many of you on the forum understand Dutch, but:
http://www.nu.nl/document?n=32738
Most info is pretty accurate. But the author states that "Kaycee
Nicole bracht zelfs geld op, want je kon T-shirts en mokken kopen met
haar hoofd erop" [translates into: 'The Kaycee concept even made some
money, because it was possible to buy T-shirts and coffee cups with
her face on it.']
Roel
www.nonharmful.com
668 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> http://www.peabodykansas.com/22swenson.html
>
> Hattersley is a good reporter. I love how Swenson continues to
> express deep contrition but hasn't made any attempts to reimburse
> people or send gifts back.
Judging from 'Debbie's' and 'KC's" taste in vintage 'music' it sounds
like she is from the 'like, whatever man' generation, hippies,
smoking dope, rioting, 'rippin' off the man, right on bro'
That was a time when only your own satisfaction counted, and if
someone else got hurt, well, 'like, whatever man' nome whut i'm
sayin...?
Besides, she can't send the gifts back, they have been 'given' to
the 'appropriate' families of the other 3 cancer victims who may or
may not exist.
Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your name
there at the top.
669 From: dori@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:40pm
Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged dori@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your
name
> there at the top.
DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as
DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.
Dori
http://www.backupbrain.com
670 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 9:51pm
Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dori@d... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> > Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your
> name
> > there at the top.
>
> DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as
> DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.
The main address for my parody is Drudge.Com. What you see isn't
always what you get. Especially on the Internet
671 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:01pm
Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... listlessness@...
Send Email
Am I being silly, but Mefi still doesn't load from
http://www.metafilter.com/ even though it seems evident that people
are using. I know it should be quite slow from a DSL connect (god
bless Matt) but shouldn't be getting something. I'm on the other
side of the world, but I thought geography wasn't an issue.
672 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:03pm
Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... listlessness@...
Send Email
I'm feelinglistless by the way . . . hey everyone . . .
673 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 10:23pm
Subject: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow saundra@...
Send Email
Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be
published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section. It
was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a
"think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York
Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.
Saundra
674 From: dominique@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 11:06pm
Subject: Why no TV dominique@...
Send Email
All this print news coverage has been very interesting to read. I'd
like to thank Saundra for keeping us all so up-to-date. However,
what seems to be missing here is an actual photo of Debbie, "Visibly
upset as she stood at the doorstep of her ranch-style Peabody home,"
as stated in the Peabody Gazette. Too bad none of this has been
picked-up by television news cameras. I believe that many of us
could finally find closure by picturing a red-nosed Debbie with puffy
eyes, looking like she hadn't left her house or changed her clothing
in over a week.
Personally, I'd be satisfied if I were able to look her right in the
eyes.
675 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 11:27pm
Subject: Re: Why no TV saundra@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dominique@a... wrote:
> All this print news coverage has been very interesting to read. I'd
> like to thank Saundra for keeping us all so up-to-date.
Welcome. :) Happy to help.
However,
> what seems to be missing here is an actual photo of Debbie, "Visibly
> upset as she stood at the doorstep of her ranch-style Peabody home,"
> as stated in the Peabody Gazette. Too bad none of this has been
> picked-up by television news cameras. I believe that many of us
> could finally find closure by picturing a red-nosed Debbie with
puffy
> eyes, looking like she hadn't left her house or changed her clothing
> in over a week.
>
> Personally, I'd be satisfied if I were able to look her right in the
> eyes.
She was supposed to do a tv interview with Channel 12 Wichita, but she
cancelled, and did her interview only by phone. My guess is, she's
being as camera shy as possible right now, just so she can hopefully
walk down the street without being recognized. Merely speculation on
my part, though.
676 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 0:14am
Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dori@d... wrote:
> > --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> > > Are you that same guy that runs Matt Drudge's page? I see your
> > name
> > > there at the top.
> >
> > DrudgeRetort.com (which Rogers runs) is not the same as
> > DrudgeReport.com--notice the spelling.
>
> The main address for my parody is Drudge.Com. What you see isn't
> always what you get. Especially on the Internet
Neat. And I mean that sincerely. Loved that y'all were onto Drudge
the day the article about the "Weakest Link" woman came out, along
with some nature news.
677 From: "Skysage"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 0:54am
Subject: Re: Follow the money... skysage5@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> But if you host two tear-jerker sites on your domain for a year and
> they keep getting more popular you eventually have to pony up for
> more bandwidth anyway...
>
> And then you get real famous overnite coz 'Debbie' lets the cat out
> of the bag, but remember there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity
in
> the media, as clinton, hillary, jesse and al sharpton can tell
you...
>
> So how come you don't just jump on a Greyhound and 'surprise' your
ex
> and your son? It be worth to see the looks on their faces...
Very true...
Easier said than done.
678 From: dhartung@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:58am
Subject: (Huh?) Re: Metafilter back up -- BUT.... dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Stuart Ian Burns"
wrote:
> Am I being silly, but Mefi still doesn't load from
> http://www.metafilter.com/ even though it seems evident that
people
> are using. I know it should be quite slow from a DSL connect (god
> bless Matt) but shouldn't be getting something. I'm on the other
> side of the world, but I thought geography wasn't an issue.
First, your DNS probably wasn't updated. The IP address changed when
Matt moved it to his DSL, and some DNS server upstream wasn't
updating often enough.
Now, Metafilter is having the time of its life, drinking tiny little
bottles of scotch, goosing stews, and probably screwing a cute little
iBook in the bathroom, as it takes a cross-country plane trip to Noo
Yawk and the beneficent arms of Dr. Jason Levine, webmeister-legal-
eagle-medico-extraordinaire, a/k/a http://q.queso.com, who has
bandwidth to spare. All hail Q!
679 From: dhartung@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:59am
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be
> published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.
It
> was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a
> "think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York
> Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.
The first time I'm asked to be interviewed by the New York Times, and
I'm out of town.
Somebody fire my PR firm for me. I'll be boozing it up in the
executive bathroom.
680 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:51am
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow matt@...
Send Email
At 10:23 PM 5/30/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be
>published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.
And here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/31/technology/31HOAX.html
Matt
681 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:10am
Subject: Re: Swenson Won't Be Charged feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
> > Neat. And I mean that sincerely. Loved that y'all were onto
Drudge
> the day the article about the "Weakest Link" woman came out, along
> with some nature news.
What really creamed my thong was when Drudge got little Monica and
her stained dress into the public eye or is that mouth...?
Remember how many parents had to explain to their 8 years olds
what 'oral sex' was?
"Now, honey when you are the President or an intern, and old enough
to know better, then you can have oral sex in the Oval Orfice or
where ever you want..."
682 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:03am
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow bonni@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> > Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be
> > published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits
section.
> It
> > was written by Katie Hafner. Another reporter is slated to have a
> > "think-piece" (1000 word essay) about the debacle in the New York
> > Times; estimated publication date is about two weeks.
>
> The first time I'm asked to be interviewed by the New York Times,
and
> I'm out of town.
Oh, I've been interviewed by the NYT. It wasn't a big deal. I was
part of a big website that was getting its official launch and NYT
interviewed me and ran a little sidebar article. No blood was shed.
;-)
bonni
http://bonni.net/
683 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:07am
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> At 10:23 PM 5/30/2001 +0000, you wrote:
> >Just got mail confirming that the New York Times article will be
> >published in tomorrow's (May 31) edition, in the Circuits section.
>
> And here it is:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/31/technology/31HOAX.html
>
> Matt
This is among the best mainstream writeups I've seen so far. About
the only strange thing in it is the comment about "Scooby Doo's". I
do recall a couple of places where someone said "Scobby crew", but I
don't recall that the term was formally adopted. It is, however, fun
and not completely inappropriate (I wanna be Thelma).
But occasionally you see a new word get created, and I think we just
did. I have now seen, in this Yahoo forum, the word "scooby" used as
a verb, with meaning "to thoroughly investigate someone using web-
based resources". We'll see whether this goes into general use; it's
happened before. If so, you can tell your grandchildren "I was there".
684 From: saundra@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 2:54pm
Subject: A Prediction of Sorts saundra@...
Send Email
Excerpting the NYT article; the first statement after getting caught:
In her confession, Ms. Swenson said the Kaycee character had been a
composite of three people she knew who had died of cancer. "What I did
was wrong and I apologize for it," she wrote. "I regret any pain I
caused."
The latest statement since getting caught:
Nevertheless, Ms. Swenson said on Tuesday that she believed the Kaycee
character had been more helpful than harmful. "A lot of people have
problems," she said. "I know I helped a lot of people in a lot of
different ways."
She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's
wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting
woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in
another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely
teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this
time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,
exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand
new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative
anonymity of the Internet.
Just my eleven cents,
Saundra
685 From:
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:11am
Subject: Sites down jrs@...
I don't know what the heck is going on, but something is screwed up with my
ISP. A few of my sites aren't showing up (www.logboy.com/jr/main.asp), and
the kaycee directory, mefi threads and all, is giving me a 403 error. I
will try and get it fixed as soon as possible so you can still see all the
info. I have no idea what is going on, since I have been at work all day.
If anyone has any comments, let me know.
J.R. Salzman
686 From: yahoo@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:06pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts yahoo@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> She will do it again. That's my prediction.
I'm already seeing occasional visits again to my site from
Southwind.net, the small ISP in south-central Kansas always used by
Debbie before to access the Internet. Granted, it could be curiosity
seekers from that area, but I am certainly keeping my eye out.
687 From:
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:14pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts jrs@...
Send Email
> She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's
> wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting
> woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in
> another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely
> teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this
> time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,
> exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand
> new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative
> anonymity of the Internet.
I must admit that I agree with you on that one. I think that she is going to do it again unless she gets punished severely. Perhaps she should get the Kevin Mitnick treatment, and not be allowed near any computer technology ever again. It's obvious that she is capabale of doing it. Who knows..... next time she might actually start asking for money for her next "dying" victim.
688 From: kumquat@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:19pm
Subject: Re: A prediction of sorts kumquat@...
Send Email
Actually.. Southwind.net is one of the longest standing ISP's in southern and
western kansas.. (which is a big area and a quite a few ppl) I would scratch
it up to curiosity first.
my credibility comes from growing up around there..
-jeana
--*--*--*--*--
--*--*--*--*--
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
>> She will do it again. That's my prediction.
>I'm already seeing occasional visits again to my site from
>Southwind.net, the small ISP in south-central Kansas always used by
>Debbie before to access the Internet. Granted, it could be curiosity
>seekers from that area, but I am certainly keeping my eye out.
689 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:51pm
Subject: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? mail@...
Send Email
I'm sending links to a Good Morning America reporter who contacted me
about the Kaycee hoax. The College Club pages used in the hoax are
gone. Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it
look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?
691 From: saundra@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts saundra@...
Send Email
Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it
again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without
getting arrested. Ugh.
Saundra
692 From: "Dominique"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts dominique@...
Send Email
And another thing, while I'm at it... Did anybody ever bother to check the TOS of her local ISP? Some actually have clauses against Internet fraud. If her's does, then at least her connection could get yanked for a while. I know she'll get another one eventually, but this will certainly slow her down a bit. I'm not advocating vigilantism in any way, but since the local police and the FBI decided not to pursue this matter any further, then perhaps it's up to the Internet community. Furthermore, if anyone out there is wondering how she may get her hands on another pretty girl's photos, I have 1 word for you: Yearbooks. I believe that libraries in the U.S. keep copies of past yearbooks. If I had my druthers, I'd make sure every library within a 100 mile radius of where Debbie lives, hide them for a while. Lastly, nobody ever talked to her husband about this. I mean what does he think of his wife's shenanigans? If he's got an ounce of common sense, perhaps he's stuffing the family's computer in the truck of his car right now as we speak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dominique
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole A Prediction of Sorts
I couldn't agree with you more Saundra. That was my very 1st gut reaction when I read her last statement to the NYT after getting caught. On the one hand I figured maybe she just was trying to put a good face on it all for such an important publication. However, the problem with liars like her is the more they get caught up their lies, the more they believe themselves. So, I figure she'll be at it again. Perhaps not with Julie's photo, but with somebody else's. This woman is sick, and doesn't it.
Excerpting the NYT article; the first statement after getting caught:
In her confession, Ms. Swenson said the Kaycee character had been a
composite of three people she knew who had died of cancer. "What I did
was wrong and I apologize for it," she wrote. "I regret any pain I
caused."
The latest statement since getting caught:
Nevertheless, Ms. Swenson said on Tuesday that she believed the Kaycee
character had been more helpful than harmful. "A lot of people have
problems," she said. "I know I helped a lot of people in a lot of
different ways."
She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's
wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a betting
woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in
another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely
teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer this
time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be there,
exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of brand
new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative
anonymity of the Internet.
Just my eleven cents,
Saundra
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693 From: "Sara L. Olesen"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:32pm
Subject: More media coverage sara@...
danish newspaper) that the Kaycee/Debbie story ran in todays printed version
of the paper. Unfortunately I'm not able to get my hands on a copy of it to
see what they wrote (unless I want to pay $$$ to get a copy sent of just the
article) and I cannot find it in their online version. The editor also
mentioned that he was writing a book about the internet (don't know from
which point of view) and that he would use the Kaycee/Debbie case as an
example therein.
--
Sara - Censored, but not silenced.
http://crunchblogger.tripod.com
694 From: Peggy Butterworth
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts pbutterw@...
Send Email
While I agree that Debbie will attempt this kind of deception again, I
don't think she's in it for the money. I think her motives are far more
twisted than mere greed. I think she's looking for some kind of
emotional fulfillment that's missing in her everyday life. I don't
think she made up that stuff about Kaycee's 'dad' out of the blue. Its
too bad that she's getting away with the whole thing, because I think
she's in dire need of some therapy.
Peggy
saundra@... wrote:
> Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it
> again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without
> getting arrested. Ugh.
>
> Saundra
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
695 From: "Jeana Clark"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts jmclark@...
Send Email
That made me think for a moment... a person could get away w/stealing $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe I should start stealing.
blah.
the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police. The FBI has decided to ignore the property theft of the case.. but no one can bring charges against the emotional rape and theft that was done... I'm not even sure if the SRS can get involved to check on the well-being of her children.....
...
-----Original Message-----
From: saundra@anywherebeyond.com [mailto:saundra@anywherebeyond.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:22 AM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: A Prediction of Sorts
Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it
again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without
getting arrested. Ugh.
Saundra
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
696 From: "rebecca blood"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts rebeccablood@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jeana Clark" wrote:
> That made me think for a moment... a person could get away
w/stealing
> $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe
I should
> start stealing.
honestly, if you stole $19,999 the fbi would be after you. that
figure is just a general rule of thumb, surely, an amount that
someone would have to approach in order to be worth their while.
rcb
697 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:04pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts angelwng@...
Send Email
I agree, Peggy -
My guess would be that the cards and little presents were more about
expressions of love to her, and if I were a betting woman, I'd bet
that she used any money to re-gift presents to others.
I agree with Saudra, too. Debbie has learn a lot from this
experience, unfortunately, she's learned how to create and maintain a
hoax better. Her quote in the NYT's article says it all that she
thinks what she did was more positive than harmful.
It will take time to develop and cultivate the backstory for her next
alter-ego, but it's just a matter of time.
On a lighter note, it would be a hoot if "Scoopy (v) - to investigate
thoroughly using web based resources" caught on and was included in
the next slang dictionary!
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Peggy Butterworth wrote:
> While I agree that Debbie will attempt this kind of deception
again, I
> don't think she's in it for the money. I think her motives are far
more
> twisted than mere greed. I think she's looking for some kind of
> emotional fulfillment that's missing in her everyday life.
698 From: Ken Scott
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts kscott-list@...
Send Email
Don’t forget that it was said that the FBI wouldn’t pursue a Federal case until it got near $20,000. I bet that if you stole $20,000 from local places that the city and state police would be more than happy to prosecute you and put you in jail.
Ken
on 5/31/01 10:53 am, Jeana Clark at jmclark@multiservice.com wrote:
That made me think for a moment... a person could get away w/stealing $19,999 !!?? That'd pay off my college loans and then some. Mebbe I should start stealing.
blah.
the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police. The FBI has decided to ignore the property theft of the case.. but no one can bring charges against the emotional rape and theft that was done... I'm not even sure if the SRS can get involved to check on the well-being of her children.....
...
-----Original Message-----
From: saundra@anywherebeyond.com [mailto:saundra@anywherebeyond.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:22 AM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: A Prediction of Sorts
Something just occurred to me- not only will she most likely do it
again-- but now she knows exactly how much money she can steal without
getting arrested. Ugh.
Saundra
--
<>< Ken Scott ken@optikos.net http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott
This is the day that the Lord has made;
Let us rejoice and be glad in it -- Psalm 118:24
699 From: "halcyon"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 6:35pm
Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? halcyon@...
Send Email
>Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it
> look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?
Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.
Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.
"Nick" called into my radio show and said he considered himself a
boyfriend of Kaycee at one time. He was a host at collegeclub.
-john
700 From: dominique@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? dominique@...
Send Email
I tried to view that page for the 1st time yesterday and it still
existed, but my screen kept freezing up (which is very rare on this
puter.) Just goes to show that Debbie is still very much active, and
probably working feverishly in order to cover up her tracks.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "halcyon" wrote:
> >Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make it
> > look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?
>
> Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.
> Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.
>
> "Nick" called into my radio show and said he considered himself a
> boyfriend of Kaycee at one time. He was a host at collegeclub.
>
> -john
701 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "halcyon" wrote:
> Didn't save the page, but the boyfriend thing may not be made up.
> Several people had "relationships" with Kaycee.
It was my impression that Debbie Swenson set up the Tazwoman page to
make it look like Kaycee and "KuteOne" were dating in real life.
Do you think that she had cybersex with some of these College Club
members while pretending to be Kaycee? The media would have a field
day with that.
702 From: Adam Conover
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:11pm
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts... adam@...
Send Email
> the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police.
And thank GOD, is all I have to say. I can't think of anything worse.
(By the way folks -- how you doing? I finally decided to join, if any of you remember me
-- tweebiscuit, from the MeFi threads. *sigh* Finals got ahead of me for awhile there...)
- adam
703 From: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:39pm
Subject: New poll for kaycee-nicole kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Send Email
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
kaycee-nicole group:
What sort of punishment do you think
Debbie deserves, if any?
o Imprisonment / Other legal action
o Psychiatric help
o Tar and Feathers
o None
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
704 From: kindall@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 8:23pm
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow kindall@...
Send Email
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer also ran the NYT piece today, on
the front page no less (although below the fold).
All the "Mr."s and "Ms."s were removed, which I found amusing.
705 From: saundra@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:22pm
Subject: BBC Coverage Tonight saundra@...
Send Email
Just got a note from Rick Hattersley at the Peabody Gazette- he's
going to be interviewed at 8.36 his time (which is, I believe, CST) by
the BBC- he's not sure if it's BBC London, BBC Radio, or BBC America,
but the show begins before 8.36, so there's some time to figure it out
between now and then.
Saundra
706 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: New York Times Coverage Tomorrow raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kindall@m... wrote:
> The Seattle Post-Intelligencer also ran the NYT piece today, on
> the front page no less (although below the fold).
>
> All the "Mr."s and "Ms."s were removed, which I found amusing.
The New York Times once printed Meat Loaf's name -- repeatedly --
within an article as "Mr. Loaf." I am not kidding.
707 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:52pm
Subject: Who are the people in the pictures? feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
Has anyone found who these people are, and do they know their
pictures are appearing on a hoax site?
http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html
i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still around?
"kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on her guest book at
the above link... =8^-)
708 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Did Anyone Save the Tazwoman Page? feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> I'm sending links to a Good Morning America reporter who contacted
me
> about the Kaycee hoax. The College Club pages used in the hoax are
> gone. Did anyone save the Tazwoman page where Debbie tried to make
it
> look like Kaycee was the boyfriend of another College Club member?
this is still up: http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html
709 From: saundra@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:09pm
Subject: Re: BBC Coverage Tonight saundra@...
Send Email
He'll be speaking to someone named Andy Gallagher if that helps jog
anyone's memories.
Saundra
>
> Just got a note from Rick Hattersley at the Peabody Gazette- he's
> going to be interviewed at 8.36 his time (which is, I believe, CST)
by
> the BBC- he's not sure if it's BBC London, BBC Radio, or BBC
America,
> but the show begins before 8.36, so there's some time to figure it
out
> between now and then.
>
> Saundra
710 From: "halcyon"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:42pm
Subject: Re: Who are the people in the pictures? halcyon@...
Send Email
I'm there, and I've talked to 5 of those people since "the truth."
-john
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., feliksbigiron@y... wrote:
> Has anyone found who these people are, and do they know their
> pictures are appearing on a hoax site?
>
> http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html
>
> i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still around?
>
> "kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on her guest book
at
> the above link... =8^-)
711 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:56pm
Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> kaycee-nicole group:
>
> What sort of punishment do you think
> Debbie deserves, if any?
>
> o Imprisonment / Other legal action
> o Psychiatric help
> o Tar and Feathers
> o None
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XXXXXXXX
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to
ignore it.
712 From: Adam Conover
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:57am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole adam@...
Send Email
On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:
> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to
> ignore it.
Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone
actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or
unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric
help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll
remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the
line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since
this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I
really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it
was inappropriate, I'll take it down.
Sorry, folks!
- adam
i blog at:
713 From: "Dominique"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:29am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole dominique@...
Send Email
No, no, I don’t think the poll should be taken down at all. In fact, I believe it may help bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion. We may not all agree, but opinions do matter and your poll may help those still on the thresholds make up their minds. Also, as far as I know tar and feathers haven’t been used in a least a century *smirk*. It was my understanding that the statement was to me taken figuratively, nothing more.
Sheesh, and I thought that I was the oversensitive one...
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Conover
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole
On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@san.rr.com muttered into a little tape recorder:
> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to
> ignore it.
Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone
actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or
unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric
help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll
remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the
line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since
this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I
really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it
was inappropriate, I'll take it down.
Sorry, folks!
- adam
i blog at:
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
714 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:30am
Subject: Who appointed you chief censor? feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> > kaycee-nicole group:
> >
> > What sort of punishment do you think
> > Debbie deserves, if any?
> >
> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action
> > o Psychiatric help
> > o Tar and Feathers
> > o None
> >
> >
> > >
> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone
to
> ignore it.
You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to
ignore you...
715 From: s h a u n a
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:34am
Subject: Re: Re: A Prediction of Sorts... goldengateblonde@...
Send Email
> the one thing about living on this planet, is we don't have moral police.
no, but we *do* have moral court ...
http://www.moralcourttv.com
"MORAL COURT is an exciting new television show that's different from any
other program on the air. MORAL COURT isn't a court of law, but a court of
ethics. It's where the accused faces the accuser before our Moral Judge,
Larry Elder. And whoever is judged right can be awarded up to $2,000! On
MORAL COURT, it pays to be right!"
one of you directly affected by this whole debacle might want to take
debbie there!
716 From: "Sara"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 0:56am
Subject: people magazine? sarapture@...
Send Email
has anyone contacted people mag about the whole kaycee debacle? seems
like this would be right up their alley....
717 From: Tamia@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:40am
Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...
Send Email
"Tar and Feather" is not a term that a 19 year old would be familiar
with....
But Debbie knows what it means.It was done to humiliate.She deserves
nothing less.If for no other reason than the fact that she is still
lying and trying to get sympathy.
When she was writing to tear and rip the hearts out of her
readers,how again was she helping you? I see nothing more than
munipulation...hers.
What a frumpy bitch.
718 From: Tamia@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:51am
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts Tamia@...
Send Email
Yes,she will do it again.And she no doubt did it on a smaller scale
before.
You know what's sick? Those of you who are enjoying your 15 minutes
of fame.
719 From: Debra Edwards
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:07am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...
Send Email
Perhaps you need counseling?
It's not a bad thing for people to let their feelings out.I laughed at the Tar and Feather remark.Only Debbie won't laugh at it,isn't that the point?
'LOL'Lighten up.
--- Adam Conover
> wrote:
>
>On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:
>
>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to
>> ignore it.
>
>Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone
>actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or
>unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric
>help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll
>remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the
>line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since
>this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I
>really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it
>was inappropriate, I'll take it down.
>
>Sorry, folks!
>
>- adam
>
>
>i blog at:
> http://www.tweebiscuit.net
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State
Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!
720 From: Debra Edwards
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:10am
Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? Tamia@...
Send Email
Is that you Debbie/Kaycee?
--- feliksbigiron@...
> wrote:
>--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
>> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:
>> >
>> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
>> > kaycee-nicole group:
>> >
>> > What sort of punishment do you think
>> > Debbie deserves, if any?
>> >
>> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action
>> > o Psychiatric help
>> > o Tar and Feathers
>> > o None
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone
>to
>> ignore it.
>
>You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to
>ignore you...
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State
Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!
721 From: Debra Edwards
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:17am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole Tamia@...
Send Email
Yikes! Sorry Adam,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.
Tamia/Debra
--- Adam Conover
> wrote:
>
>On 31 May 2001, at 23:56, sdenbes1@... muttered into a little tape recorder:
>
>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone to
>> ignore it.
>
>Sorry -- I rethought it after posting, but figured I'd see if anyone
>actually minded. I didn't mean to be either disrespectful or
>unnecessarily harsh -- as you can see, I voted for "Psychiatric
>help." And yes, I *am* curious as to the results of the poll. I'll
>remove the "Tar and Feathers" choice, because that was a bit over the
>line. Other than that -- well, I think it's a fair question, since
>this is such a grey area, and such a heated problem. However, I
>really don't want to offend anyone, so if the consensus is that it
>was inappropriate, I'll take it down.
>
>Sorry, folks!
>
>- adam
>
>
>i blog at:
> http://www.tweebiscuit.net
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State
Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!
722 From: Debra Edwards
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:19am
Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? Tamia@...
Send Email
Er...Yikes! Sorry,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.
Tamia/Debra
(I'm trying to laugh)
--- feliksbigiron@...
> wrote:
>--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
>> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:
>> >
>> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
>> > kaycee-nicole group:
>> >
>> > What sort of punishment do you think
>> > Debbie deserves, if any?
>> >
>> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action
>> > o Psychiatric help
>> > o Tar and Feathers
>> > o None
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone
>to
>> ignore it.
>
>You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to
>ignore you...
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
_________________________________________________________
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of Ohio State
Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at --> http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!
723 From: Ryan Kawailani Ozawa
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:37am
Subject: Kaycee made the wire... ozawa@...
Send Email
FBI Will Not Pursue Internet Hoax (Associated Press)
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010531/tc/internet_hoax_1.html
"WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - The FBI said Thursday it will not further
investigate an Internet hoax in which a 40-year-old woman invented a young
woman, began an online diary of her battle with leukemia and then killed
her off..."
724 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:38am
Subject: Re: Who appointed you chief censor? feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Debra Edwards wrote:
> Er...Yikes! Sorry,I am unfamiliar with how these Yahoo message
forums work.I thought that you had e-mailed me personally.Please
ignore my last e-mail.I won't make that mistake again.
> Tamia/Debra
> (I'm trying to laugh)
I may be a lot of things, but 'Debbie' is not any of them...
>
> --- feliksbigiron@y...
> > wrote:
> >--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> >> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., kaycee-nicole@y... wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> >> > kaycee-nicole group:
> >> >
> >> > What sort of punishment do you think
> >> > Debbie deserves, if any?
> >> >
> >> > o Imprisonment / Other legal action
> >> > o Psychiatric help
> >> > o Tar and Feathers
> >> > o None
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge
everyone
> >to
> >> ignore it.
> >
> >You don't dictate taste around here and I order everyone here to
> >ignore you...
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> _________________________________________________________
> http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com - The Official Athletic Site of
Ohio State
> Buckeye Fans! Get your FREE email at -->
http://mail.ohiostatebuckeyes.com!
725 From: "Bonnie"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:55am
Subject: My Little Findings... sarrissa87@...
Send Email
Any one else notice that Debbie's All Star site at College Club is
gone? Also, the pictures of Julie are gone off of "Kutebabe"'s site
too. I posted a little message to Debbie the other day in the All
Star guest book that Julie could sue her for posting her pics as
someone else. I'm not sure if I was right or not, but the pics are
gone. However, the geocities ones are still up. Also, Kutebabe
and Debbie both logged into College Club today, but didn't take
any ims. I heard that "living colours" is up again at blogspot.com,
but I'm not sure.
Bonnie
726 From: Ian Thompson
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:06am
Subject: Re: My Little Findings... disarray@...
Send Email
On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Bonnie wrote:
>I heard that "living colours" is up again at blogspot.com, but I'm not sure.
from <http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>:
> Sunday, May 27, 2001
>
> Right now I'm just publishing this to have it up. I am not interested
> in talking to anyone at this point. You have all been weird. I'll be
> back in a week or so to talk about the past 2 weeks.
>
> posted by i am the warrior at 11:32 AM
Hrm... to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, to say the least.
--ian thompson
727 From: "Bonnie"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:19am
Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...
Send Email
Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was
looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a rest?
Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?
Bonnie
728 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:23am
Subject: (No subject) raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:
> Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was
> looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a rest?
> Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?
>
> Bonnie
Is that a typical blogspot design? I've noticed it before, first
during the kaycee krisis, as it were, itself.
729 From: "Bonnie"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:27am
Subject: (No subject) sarrissa87@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Ray Mikell" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:
> > Thanks Ian, I didn't think it was under it's real name. I was
> > looking for something complex. When will Debbie give it a
rest?
> > Doesn't she know by now that no one's going to believe her?
> >
> > Bonnie
>
> Is that a typical blogspot design? I've noticed it before, first
> during the kaycee krisis, as it were, itself.
I think that it's one that you can pick on blogger. It looked like
Debbie had some more imaginary friends on there, but that
other post is gone now.
Bonnie
730 From: "Kristin"
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:19pm
Subject: Re: people magazine? tokristin@...
Send Email
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sara"
> has anyone contacted people mag about the whole kaycee debacle? seems
> like this would be right up their alley....
Why give Debbie a national forum at all? Keep in mind, those of you that are
contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that you are
giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of attention,
which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in the first
place. Don't give her what she wants.
As more and more news outlets report this story, other news outlets who are
considering covering it are going to be looking for new angles, and since it
has been reported that Debbie will not be charged with any legal wrongdoing,
she can be confidant that whatever she chooses to say will not be a problem
down the road, which means that she could very easily spin herself as the
innocent victim of a bunch of online thugs. She has nothing to lose by
changing her story at this point, and we are all already aware that she is
an accomplished and inspired liar, who certainly has the skills to garner
sympathy - and as other people have already pointed out, she now has to live
in a very small town after all the national and local press about this hoax,
which will likely be punishment enough.
Just some things to think about, before you start sending off the emails to
more news and magazine outlets.
Kristin Thomas
http://www.sperare.com
731 From: Tamia@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts Tamia@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> She will do it again. That's my prediction. She doesn't think it's
> wrong, and she's only sorry that she got caught. If I were a
betting
> woman, I'd lay down money that sometime in the next few months, in
> another small Internet community, another bright, bubbly, lovely
> teenaged girl is going to appear. She probably won't have cancer
this
> time, because Debbie learned from her mistakes; but she'll be
there,
> exchanging e-mails, IMs, gifts, and basking in the warm glow of
brand
> new positive attention, once more happily abusing the relative
> anonymity of the Internet.
>
> Just my eleven cents,
> Saundra
***
Saundra,I honestly believe that she has possibly pulled a similar,but
smaller scam off before.It irks me to no end (in polite language)
that she is still pulling off her scam.How can anyone believe that
this manipulative bitch ever had good intentions?
Just my 2 cents worth.
732 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 4:15am
Subject: "Debbie" we should be thanking... feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
for allowing us to waste hundreds of hours blubbering about the
wonderful brave cute blonde athlete who is dying, no wait, she just
got better, oh no, she needs another transplant, oh look she wrote
another wonderful poem, darn she is back in the hospital again...
then we can spend hundreds of more hours discussing what a bitch she
is, and how she has to live in a very small kansas town where i doubt
1 person in all 239 living there has ever heard of the internet let
alone "KC nicole" and barfing all your emotions out on your vanity
site weblog...
but wait, maybe 'debbie' is trying to teach us a lesson there is more
to life than worshipping fake people on the internet, ...naaaaah!
733 From: goody_mydear@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 5:26am
Subject: Re: people magazine? goody_mydear@...
Send Email
My response is below the copied paragraph.
<that are
contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that
you are
giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of
attention,
which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in
the first
place. Don't give her what she wants.>>
I agree. In fact, when I was relating this entire horrid story to my
husband last week, at the end of my rant he paused, looked at me and
said, "Don't be surprised when she turns up on Jerry Springer."
Now, of course, I absolutely do not watch Jerry Springer. I despise
that kind of show. So, if she does manage to actually extend her 15
minutes of fame into *that* arena, I will be very, very disappointed.
To use an overused phrase, her appearing on that show would be wrong
on so many levels. Yes, it would bring attention to what she did, but
unless someone from "our side" were to appear with her (unlikely), it
would be just HER side of the story. We can only imagine how she
would weave that version of her story. Do you think she would be
capable of eliciting sympathy from the audience? ::shudder::
In my opinion, she has some extremely serious emotional issues that
need to be professionally addressed. However, given her most recent
statement in the NY Times article, she considers herself to be a
quasi therapist, capable of dispensing help ::cough:: to those in
need. Please.
It is a shame that she doesn't, or possibly, can't grasp the nature
of what she has done.
Whoever stated (sorry, can't remember) that she'll pull this kind of
stunt again is, unfortunately, probably correct.
Having said that, perhaps we shouldn't continue feeding her illness.
I'd hate to hear via this forum that she's the next scheduled guest
on the esteemed Springer show. Ack.
My .02,
Goody
734 From: "Tim L. Walker"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 5:26am
Subject: Re: Who are the people in the pictures? thebassperson@...
Send Email
These people are 'friends' of Kaycees from
CollegeClub.com - former or current student hosts from
that site. I'm sure they're all aware their picture
is there.
--- feliksbigiron@... wrote:
> Has anyone found who these people are, and do they
> know their
> pictures are appearing on a hoax site?
>
> http://home.collegeclub.com/kutebabe/heros3.html
>
> i can't seem to find the 'tazwoman' site is it still
> around?
>
> "kaycee" seems to be getting lots of nasty posts on
> her guest book at
> the above link... =8^-)
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________
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735 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 10:59am
Subject: Re: New poll for kaycee-nicole mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> I think this is in extraordinarily bad taste, and I urge everyone
> to ignore it.
There's nothing in the poll that hasn't already been discussed here
and elsewhere, including speculation about the woman's mental health.
736 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:02am
Subject: Re: A Prediction of Sorts mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Tamia@o... wrote:
> You know what's sick? Those of you who are enjoying your 15 minutes
> of fame.
Should people here be ashamed they uncovered Debbie's hoax?
737 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:12am
Subject: Re: people magazine? mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Kristin" wrote:
> Why give Debbie a national forum at all? Keep in mind, those of you
that are
> contacting news outlets like People, and the Today Show, etc, that
you are
> giving Debbie exactly what she wants, which is a great deal of
attention,
> which is likely one of the major reasons she started doing this in
the first
> place. Don't give her what she wants.
She changed her phone number and has refused to do on-camera
interviews. I don't think she wants to be the subject of
international media coverage like this. If she was a media whore,
we'd be seeing her face all over the place.
Contacting the media (or avoiding them) isn't going to make a bit of
difference at this point, because the story's already out there in so
many places. That New York Times story ran on the front page of the D
section yesterday.
738 From: "Alastair Alexander"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:20am
Subject: Re: Re: people magazine? group@...
Send Email
It's in the UK papers this morning (slow? us?), and got some coverage in
The Register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19353.html
It was NTK ('Need To Know') that broke the story over here last week -
http://www.ntk.net/
Pretty sympathetic coverage all told.
Al
This message was sent by Easymail - http://www.easynet.co.uk/
739 From: dominique@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:07pm
Subject: So what now. dominique@...
Send Email
Becoming a member of this newsgroup has been an absolute revelation
to me. For one thing I had no idea that there were such gems hiding
among so many of those vanity blogs that I grew to hate, then
disregard over a year ago. I'd like to say that I've become
one of the converted, and will remain a fan of many of you long after
this affair is over.
Now on with what I really wanted to say, which is twofold. What
Kristin wrote made a lot of sense as usual, and judging from this
morning's article in the UK Register, she's probably on the
right tract. It bothers me that the writer chose to put such a
positive spin on Debbie's motives, because I believe that it will feed
right into what she's probably convinced herself of already.
Furthermore, it seems to almost promote "role playing" or the
invention ofalter egos, as O.K. as long as your motives are good. It
says and I quote: "it united people in concern for another, and
inspiredthem to exhibit some of the finest of human inclinations."
However, the end doesn't always justify the means. When I read a
novel, I'm perfectly aware that the characters, although probably
based on the writer's general experiences, are nonetheless invented.
Let's not forget that biographies andfiction are two separate
things. If I can be moved to tears or even to grieve for a
fictitious character, then at least I know in my heart that the
person wasn't real and I can move on with my life after I finish the
book. However, real grief for a person that actually existed is an
entirely different matter. This kind of pain can last for years and
years. If Debbie hadn't been exposed as the fraud and a compulsive
liar that she is, many good and inspired people would have gone on to
hurt for a long time to come. Not to mention those real sufferers of
terminal diseases who were just as deserving of all the attention
given to Kaycee Nicole, but were robbed of it somehow.
If Debbie is allowed to "hide" her real motives behind a façade of
some sort of "angel in disguise", then who is to say that the next
person we extend our love to isn't lying to us as well. All I'm
saying is, if I'm going to feel any kind of sympathy or concern
for someone in the future, I want to know that the person is real,
and not the product of a manipulative and twisted housewife in dyer
need of psychiatric help. Which brings me to my final point. In the
latest poll I voted that Debbie be legally forced to face up to her
actions. Otherwise, there is no doubt in my mind that she will never
admit any wrongdoing and/or receive the professional help she needs.
Nor will she be made an example of in order to force future
perpetrators of hoaxes to think twice before they create a fake
persona in order to satisfy their own sick needs for attention. I
realize that there is probably no law that exists today which would
force her to get help, but if there was ever call to create a
precedent, I think this is a shining example of one now. Otherwise,
all the detective work and subsequent discussions will have been in
vain.
740 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 1:58pm
Subject: My thoughts.... truesolace00@...
Send Email
While I do find it suprising that Debbie will not face criminal
charges in this matter...it saddens me even in the midst she is
trying to find 'good' in all of this..yes 'Kaycee' spread her
sunshine and touched the lives of many of us but the harsh reality is
is that in the entire process she has lived such a lie....i have been
stunned to read that she states that she is this and that but the
fact of the matter is she hasn't been real and who knows with her
current state if she could ever be...
In regards to the pictures that are currently on the pages at college
club...as tim mentioned they are pictures of current and former
student host and leaders who at one time played a role in the host
program on the site....many do have knowledge that the pictures are
on the site and are aware of the recent events....also there are
photos in the gallery which people are aware of as well as those
photos are public (link is in the bookmark section). Mine is one of
those in the gallery......
i am concerned that considering the fact that she will not be charged
in this matter that there is that open door for her to do this
again...it seems that she doesn't understand what she has done has
not only hurt me and so many others deeply and she just wants to keep
going forward...this woman is sadly disturbed and confused.....e
my prayer is that if she does get professional help if not for
herself but for the sake of the family because i have no doubt that
they are extremely embarassed by the current events....debbie may
have thought she was doing something by going in this hoax but debbie
has sadly made her bed....
now she must lie in it....
although she won't answer to the law she will answer to GOD for her
actions in this...
i am working on the forgiveness portion in the matter but that is
going to take some time still....I getting to find closure....
I am getting there....
741 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:20pm
Subject: Re: My thoughts.... bonni@...
Send Email
You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in more
than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic of
gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.
When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their
hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying teenager
and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,
conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.
A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's going
to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small
town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.
This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody. They
love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it (I
understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or
something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a lot
to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories
about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with other
people's pictures and all this international media attention is
suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot of
folks are going to rightfully resent that.
Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have a "poor
me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.
Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought
about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was
exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught
telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she didn't
expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people, not
so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe
she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I hope
SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.
I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter, who
was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry
what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have a
fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she so
clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or
might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.
Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.
Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no
one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper
was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody
read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't going
to think very highly of her from now on.
bonni
http://bonni.net/
742 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 2:48pm
Subject: Re: My thoughts.... truesolace00@...
That is very true and I appreciate your additional thoughts in this
matter...
small towns do remember and i have no doubt that the town will not
think highly of her after this...it will be very hard for her to
regain the trust of people...you're right she will have to walk down
the street and endure the whispers, comments, and thoughts of her
fellow townspeople after this....she will not be able to hold her
head up as she hears "that's the woman who commited the Kaycee
hoax".....she will be shamed without a doubt for a very long
time....her story will be a tale in that town for years to come...
also i do feel bad for her children as well as i think about because
they will now have to deal with the harsh torment from their peers...
"look aren't you that kid with the momma who did the kaycee
hoax...haha!!"
Young ones can be harsh and i think that this will definately hurt
them in buliding relationships...if Debbie ain't real then they
assumes the kids aren't too....I especially feel for kelli....i know
that she has to be deeply hurt with the fact that her own mother
continued this hoax and went too far...on top of that she put julie
on a pedestal using her pictures for the foundation of her
lies....think of julie...she is the all american girl...pretty,hs
valedictorian, top basketball star, revered by many, envy of
others...to me i think julie was the daughter that debbie always
wanted but could never have....julie had all the qualities that she
wanted in a child and somehow kelli didn't live up to all those
qualities so she looked to julie...i wonder how their relationship
will be after all of this...
you know i wouldn't be suprised if her husband walks on her after all
of this.....i know that his collegues may have a few things to say as
well from all of this...
Just my additional two cents in regards to your response. ;)
Kanika
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonni Elizabeth Hall" wrote:
> You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in
more
> than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic
of
> gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.
> When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their
> hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying
teenager
> and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,
> conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.
>
> A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's
going
> to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small
> town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.
>
> This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody.
They
> love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it
(I
> understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or
> something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a
lot
> to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories
> about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with
other
> people's pictures and all this international media attention is
> suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot
of
> folks are going to rightfully resent that.
>
> Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have
a "poor
> me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.
> Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought
> about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was
> exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught
> telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she
didn't
> expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people,
not
> so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe
> she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I
hope
> SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.
>
> I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter,
who
> was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry
> what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have
a
> fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she
so
> clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or
> might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.
>
> Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.
> Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no
> one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper
> was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody
> read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't
going
> to think very highly of her from now on.
>
> bonni
> http://bonni.net/
743 From: "Dominique"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: My thoughts.... dominique@...
Send Email
First let me say that I’m sorry that you were deceived by this Kanika. If I had any advice to give, then I’d keep reminding you that you have a good and kind soul. Although many will try to take advantage of that in this life, most will benefit from it too, and those are the ones that truly matter.
As far as Debbie’s family is concerned, I also feel concern for their welfare. The husband may suffer professionally because of this, and that’s bad enough for the rest of the family. However, the little daughter is the one that worries me the most. She seems to be the one who started this whole thing as a way to meet boys. I remember seeing a photo of her, and I’m sure we can understand that as a chubby adolescent, she probably didn’t even know that what she was doing was so wrong. But when the mother took over, she reinforced all of her anxieties about not being good enough, or pretty enough, or worthy of the same kind of love. That scares me… the things she’s taught and is still teaching that poor child.
Again, if Debbie isn’t legally forced to face her actions and seek therapy, then the real daughter may never get the chance to learn how to believe in herself. If I had any power in this matter, my recommendations would be as follows:
1. Debbie should immediately undergo psychiatric treatment and report to a judge on a weekly basis with proof of such meetings. The daughter should go as well, but separately and not viewed as punishment. And;
2. Debbie should also be ordered to work as volunteer in some sort of hospice for aids victims. Perhaps then she’d get a REAL clue about what death really means. Not the romantic overly sentimental ideals of a golden heroin, but the misery and the true fear of those who are facing it. It’s not all the clichéd white picket fences, windblown oak trees, and sunshine, baby…
----- Original Message -----
From: truesolace00@earthlink.net
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:48 AM
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: My thoughts....
Bonni,
That is very true and I appreciate your additional thoughts in this
matter...
small towns do remember and i have no doubt that the town will not
think highly of her after this...it will be very hard for her to
regain the trust of people...you're right she will have to walk down
the street and endure the whispers, comments, and thoughts of her
fellow townspeople after this....she will not be able to hold her
head up as she hears "that's the woman who commited the Kaycee
hoax".....she will be shamed without a doubt for a very long
time....her story will be a tale in that town for years to come...
also i do feel bad for her children as well as i think about because
they will now have to deal with the harsh torment from their peers...
"look aren't you that kid with the momma who did the kaycee
hoax...haha!!"
Young ones can be harsh and i think that this will definately hurt
them in buliding relationships...if Debbie ain't real then they
assumes the kids aren't too....I especially feel for kelli....i know
that she has to be deeply hurt with the fact that her own mother
continued this hoax and went too far...on top of that she put julie
on a pedestal using her pictures for the foundation of her
lies....think of julie...she is the all american girl...pretty,hs
valedictorian, top basketball star, revered by many, envy of
others...to me i think julie was the daughter that debbie always
wanted but could never have....julie had all the qualities that she
wanted in a child and somehow kelli didn't live up to all those
qualities so she looked to julie...i wonder how their relationship
will be after all of this...
you know i wouldn't be suprised if her husband walks on her after all
of this.....i know that his collegues may have a few things to say as
well from all of this...
Just my additional two cents in regards to your response. ;)
Kanika
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonni Elizabeth Hall" wrote:
> You forget the wrath of the small town mentality. I've lived in
more
> than one small town, and believe me, she is going to be the topic
of
> gossip (much of it cruel), jokes, and a lot of unpleasant behavior.
> When she walks down the street, people will whisper behind their
> hands (Oh, isn't that the woman who pretended to be a dying
teenager
> and use a real person's pictures?). When she walks into a room,
> conversation will stop. People will refuse to make eye contact.
>
> A few kind people will reach out to her in kindness, but she's
going
> to become something of a pariah in many, many places in the small
> town of Peabody, Kansas, I can just about guarantee it.
>
> This is NOT intended as a slight against the people of Peabody.
They
> love their town, and apparently have good reason to be proud of it
(I
> understand it has a wonderfully preserved antique main street or
> something of that sort which draws a lot of tourists). There's a
lot
> to the town to like, and here's this weird woman making up stories
> about things on the internet and pretending who knows what with
other
> people's pictures and all this international media attention is
> suddenly focussing on Peabody for completely wrong reasons. A lot
of
> folks are going to rightfully resent that.
>
> Yes, she keeps playing the victim. Her apologies always have
a "poor
> me" edge to them. She "never meant" to hurt people, blah blah blah.
> Poor little Debbie, she just pulled a big hoax and never thought
> about what it meant and when it blew up in her face and she was
> exposed for the liar she is (how many lies has she been caught
> telling to try to cover her tracks?), and oh, golly, gee, she
didn't
> expect anything like THIS, she only meant to lie to a FEW people,
not
> so MANY of them... Yes, she's clueless. And yes, I truly believe
> she's genuinely mentally ill, and I have compassion for that. I
hope
> SOMEONE gets her to go for the help she needs.
>
> I feel the most sorry for her children, especially her daughter,
who
> was strongly implicated in all of this on many levels. I also worry
> what's going to happen to them now that Mommy Dearest doesn't have
a
> fake daughter dying of cancer with which to get the attention she
so
> clearly neurotically needs. I won't speculate on what she might or
> might not do, but it worries me to consider it at all.
>
> Debbie's going to feel the sting for a long time. I'm sure of that.
> Yeah, she's still being all sorry and pathetic, but in the end, no
> one's going to believe it. The stuff printed in her home town paper
> was hardly sympathetic, and that's the one the people of Peabody
> read. Take comfort in knowing that the people of Peabody aren't
going
> to think very highly of her from now on.
>
> bonni
> http://bonni.net/
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744 From: saundra@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 6:09pm
Subject: AP Story picked up by Salon saundra@...
Send Email
This may be the extent of their coverage- they're running the AP story
that's going the rounds today on the front page.
http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/06/01/kaycee/index.html if you
haven't already read it.
Saundra
745 From: "Bonnie"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 7:40pm
Subject: Traces sarrissa87@...
Send Email
Just one thing-- how did you guys get those postings traced? Did
you have to pay to do it? Email me on this, if you don't want to
post it here: comettailfire@...
Bonnie
746 From: dhartung@...
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 9:39pm
Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> This may be the extent of their coverage- they're running the
> AP story that's going the rounds today on the front page.
>
> http://www.salon.com/tech/wire/2001/06/01/kaycee/index.html if you
> haven't already read it.
Pretty ironic, considering I've said several times that Salon was the
*only* place I really expected to see coverage. (I think they've laid
off the people like Janelle Brown who would have been assigned to the
story, though.)
On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges weren't
warranted. Some of the stories told were pretty over-the-top compared
to what seems to have been the case. Some people got burned, but
their gifts were freely given, and in the end it's just the same as
the guy with the "broken-down" car on the highway who scammed me out
of $40 ... and while I was digging for my tools, promptly drove off
in a screech of gravel. Damnit. Won't stop me from stopping to help
people in the future, though; I'll just be more careful who I open my
wallet for.
Does Debbie need mental help? Possibly, though I think maybe some
here are being too judgemental and rushing to the defense of her
daughter, one person whose thoughts we really haven't heard. Debbie
may be a "little" dysfunctional as far as interpersonal relationships
go, but that's no justification for meddling in her family affairs. I
think we all know people who are just as ... discordian in their
dealings with others.
Maybe she'll try to redeem herself
<http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>. Maybe she'll find readers for
her treacly Karen-Carpenter positivism. I can't presume to speak for
anyone who thought they were Kaycee's friend, but it seems to me that
forgiveness is gonna be a long way off.
747 From: "Cheryl Eve"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon angelwng@...
Send Email
However, if I were Randall Van der Woning, I would be mailing Debbie
an invoice for the design, bandwidth, hosting, and long distance
phone bills - in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest bite
taken.
> ...
> On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges
weren't
> warranted. ...
748 From: "Dominique"
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2001 11:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon dominique@...
Send Email
Yup, yup, yup! To quote John Cage in the Ally McBeal TV show: "I'm perturbed. Let's all take a moment...
< in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest bite
taken.
> ...
> On some other notes, I'm NOT surprised that criminal charges
weren't
> warranted. ...
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749 From: "Tim L. Walker"
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 0:24am
Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon thebassperson@...
I'm just writing in response to the comment below:
<were Kaycee's friend, but it seems to me that
forgiveness is gonna be a long way off.>>
I _was_ one of Kaycee's friends. I talked on the
phone to 'her' several times. I sent her cards, and
even had a baseball cap _made_ for her, specially
inscribed. I organized a care package from other
online friends and sent it to her. I'm sure, all in,
I spent over $200 in Kaycee-related expenses.
But you know what? I don't really feel cheated.
Regardless of the fact that Kaycee was really
Debbie/Kelli/whomever, she still made me smile for
almost 2 years. She made me laugh about life, and
really think about what life was all about.
Now that I know she never lived, laughed, smiled, had
chemo, died, etc., it doesn't really bother me too
much. The fact that she never existed, and Debbie
fabricated the whole thing doesn't really change what
"Kaycee" did in my life. She helped lift me up when I
was having bad days, she gave me love-life advice (not
that it worked... but still, it's the thought that
counts), she gave me a new perspective - to be young
and not having much time left. It doesn't matter that
she didn't really exist.
It's like going to a movie you thought was based on a
true story, and it really touched you, and you changed
because of it, and then you find out that the movie
was actually just made up, does it really matter?
You've changed your life for the better because of the
movie irregardless of the fact if it was based on a
real story or not.
Anyways, that's how I'm looking at the whole ordeal.
I can forgive Debbie. I'm going to take what good is
in this situation, and try not to focus on the bad.
Sure, it's a dumb, stupid, un-thoughtful thing that
Debbie did, but let's face it... it's not like she
spread hate and whatnot around the internet while she
was playing the role of "Kaycee." She was spreading
love, sunshine and good things... Let's at least try
to take some of the good away from all this.
My $.02,
Tim L. Walker
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750 From: s h a u n a
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:57am
Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon goldengateblonde@...
Send Email
>Maybe she'll try to redeem herself
><http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/>.
has anyone considered the notion that maybe the new blog was set up by some
other person just to cause discussion/commotion/whatever? it just seems
rather odd that debbie would start a blog with the exact same name, now
that the aforementioned name is "mud."
751 From: yahoo@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 3:11am
Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot yahoo@...
Send Email
Yeah, it isn't her. It was pretty easy to tell from the style of the
other post that was there for part of the day on Thursday, then
disappeared. While there has been speculation she may try this again,
especially since she has boatloads of new pictures sent to her during
the final week of "Kaycee's life", my personal opinion is that if she
goes back online she will be herself next time. She has already
established that she has a way with words, the curiosity factor would
be tremendous -- I suspect she has a built-in initial audience.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., s h a u n a wrote:
> has anyone considered the notion that maybe the new blog was set up
by some other person
752 From: feliksbigiron@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 3:27am
Subject: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon feliksbigiron@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Cheryl Eve" wrote:
> However, if I were Randall Van der Woning, I would be mailing
Debbie
> an invoice for the design, bandwidth, hosting, and long distance
> phone bills - in time and money, sounds like he had the biggest
bite
> taken.
On the gripping hand, since 'bwg' is a colonel in the people's
liberation army, hong kong counterintel psywar branch, i am sure his
expenses are covered...
753 From: dhartung@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 6:33am
Subject: dead@32 controversy dhartung@...
Send Email
There was a weblogs story on CNN Headline News today, which included
interviews with the usual assortment of A-listers, plus people like
Justin Hall (links.net) and John Grohol (Open Journal). The grohol
reference sparked a Metafilter search and I turned up this thread
that I'd only vaguely remembered (and attributed to something else
entirely, so looking it up, when I thought of it, proved fruitless).
There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as dead@32,
which Grohol hosted, and this thread delves into the question of the
fatalistic blogger's identity. The entire blog seems to have been an
invention of Grohol.
I had no idea it was just three months ago -- internet time is like
that.
(By contrast, I was also re-reading early Camworld tonight, seeing
what I recalled. Even though I probably started reading him regularly
in late 1998, that was also when I started my last job. Career-wise,
it seems like yesterday; internet-wise, it's antediluvian.)
754 From: dhartung@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 6:34am
Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:
> There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as
dead@32,
Whoops. Here's the link:
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/6024
755 From: saundra@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 7:07am
Subject: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz saundra@...
Send Email
Got word from my pal in Peabody, and it looks like the quiet last week
was to give us time to get ready for the blitz this week. So far, Good
Morning America, The Today Show, Sally Jesse Raphael, and Dateline
have converged or contacted various persons in Peabody. Heh, I wonder
if Editor Sour Grapes from the Newton Kansan thinks it's news yet?
Saundra
756 From: Alastair Alexander
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 8:55am
Subject: Re: Re: AP Story picked up by Salon group@...
Send Email
> On the gripping hand, since 'bwg' is a colonel in the people's
> liberation army, hong kong counterintel psywar branch, i am sure his
> expenses are covered...
Hey, he might *say* he is, but are we *sure*?
757 From: "Dominique"
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 1:48pm
Subject: Re: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz dominique@...
Send Email
Well slap me on the posterior and call me surprised :) How does if feel to be right Bonni (msg #741). Debbie will have a hard time strolling down Main Street now without the stench of rotting fruit being flung at her. I unofficially declare today, as "I'm a happy camper day."
>So far, Good
Morning America, The Today Show, Sally Jesse Raphael, and Dateline
have converged or contacted various persons in Peabody. Heh, I wonder
if Editor Sour Grapes from the Newton Kansan thinks it's news yet?
Saundra
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758 From: "Bonni Elizabeth Hall"
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Dispatches from Peabody/Impending Media Blitz bonni@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dominique" wrote:
> Well slap me on the posterior and call me surprised :) How does if
feel to be right Bonni (msg #741). Debbie will have a hard time
strolling down Main Street now without the stench of rotting fruit
being flung at her. I unofficially declare today, as "I'm a happy
camper day."
Ah, my psychic powers are still intact. Good. ;-)
Seriously, I just know small towns all too well (which is why I live
in a big, big capital city ;-).
And actually, I'm hoping this will ultimately be good for Debbie. All
this pressure and negative attention and such, maybe it'll make her
crack just enough to seek the help I believe she needs (and that is
not something I say without compassion, by the way; the mentally ill
need help, just as the physically ill do, so it's not some sort of
negative indictment of anyone).
Still, I have to say that the thought of Debbie peeking out of her
house nervously and having to send her husband to the grocery store
because so many people stare and whisper is kind of good. It strikes
me as appropriate karma for the situation. Stand up in public and
lie, lie, lie to hundreds of people, and then hundreds of people will
stand you up in public and know you for the liar you are.
bonni
http://bonni.net/
759 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: CNN coverage sdenbes1@...
l
I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the
FBI closure.
760 From: "Dominique"
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:22pm
Subject: Re: CNN coverage dominique@...
Send Email
Oops you were missling the l in html there, so the link didn't work. For those keeping track on all the news stories this link should work:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: sdenbes1@san.rr.com
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 10:02 AM
Subject: kaycee-nicole CNN coverage
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.htm
l
I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the
FBI closure.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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761 From: linlassie@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 2:47pm
Subject: Re: CNN coverage linlassie@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
>
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.hoax.ap/index.htm
> l
>
> I don't know if this was already posted; it's their coverage of the
> FBI closure.
"The whole idea of an online journal is to write what you want to
write," she said. "I wanted it to be something positive."
This was way more than an online journal. Who is this lady kidding,
she made several phone calls and received several calls regarding
Kaycee's health, did she ever once stop to think about the people
with whom she was communicating on a persoanl level with.
What did she think would happen after the "death" that those people
would just say oh well lets get on with our own lives.
Perhaps there is no crime in the eyes of the FBI, however I think
this women should at least go on public T.V. and give a full account
of her actions and an apology....instead of hiding behind an unlisted
Ph#!!!!
762 From: BeanSprouts@...
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: CNN coverage BeanSprouts@...
writes:
Perhaps there is no crime in the eyes of the FBI, however I think
this women should at least go on public T.V. and give a full account
of her actions and an apology....instead of hiding behind an unlisted
Ph#!!!!
and maybe... just maybe... she'll spin this into some fame and fortune
gaining incident. for some reason, the more i hear debbie talking to the
press, the more i keep drawing back to other social pariahs who have hired a
PR person and turned themselves into a pseudo celeb... if debbie is as
emotionally needy as she seems to be, i wouldn't be surprised.
monica lewinsky, darva conger anyone?
763 From: "Stuart Ian Burns"
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2001 11:06pm
Subject: The Guardian (again) The Editor Supplement listlessness@...
Send Email
Sorry if this is re-post . . .
Mention in the Click Count column of the Web life page in The
Guardian's supplement 'The Editor'
Listing What's Hot at Moreover.com . . .
'5: The short life of Kaycee Nicole (hoax girl who recounted her
struggle against lukaemia in online diary "dies") '
Isn't media tracking fun?
764 From: dominique@...
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 4:35am
Subject: Someting to think about and not condemn: dominique@...
Send Email
As I sit here unable to sleep on the eve of receiving my own test
results for possible breast cancer, I find myself reflecting on the
past week. I found true solace in being able to vent my anger here,
and I'm grateful for being allowed to make my point (not to mention
stand on my own proverbial soapbox.) I'm not asking for sympathy
(gawd I'd REALLY hate that), I'm merely explaining the following: as
a French Canadian born and bread, or as they say here "pure laine",
I'm also Catholic. However, when I attend services, I choose the
Anglican philosophy. This evening while I was rifling through my
night table drawer I found an old service pamphlet, which I have
saved for many years. The prayer that struck me then and inspired me
to save it is this:
Prayer Of St. Francis
Make me a channel of your peace.
Where there is hatred let me bring
your love: where there is injury,
your pardon, Lord; and where
there's love true faith in you.
Oh, master, grant that I may never
seek so much to be consoled as to
console: to be understood as to
understand: to be loved, as to love
with all my soul.
Make me a channel of your peace.
Where there's despair in life let me
bring hope; where there is
darkness, only light; and where
there's sadness ever joy.
Make me a channel of your peace.
It is in pardoning that we are
pardoned, in giving of ourselves
that we receive: and in dying that
we're borne to eternal life.
Au revoir et à bientôt. Thank you all for listening to my ramblings
but most importantly for understanding without details, why I needed
to.
765 From: DramaQueenH@...
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 4:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot DramaQueenH@...
Send Email
What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,
Heather Paula
766 From: Adam Geitgey
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 3:48am
Subject: Creepy adam@...
Send Email
This is only slightly on topic, but I thought it was interesting. Apprently
one of Sony Picture's quote whores (aka movie reviewers that always give good
reviews to movies) didn't even exist. David Manning of The Ridgefield Press
is a fabrication. He was created by the marketing department to praise their
movies. Isn't that bordering on fraud?
Here's the story:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/581770.asp?cp1=1
Adam
767 From: kafeiaries@...
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 6:48pm
Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot kafeiaries@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:
> What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,
> Heather Paula
Heather, Debbie moved her blog, °living colours° to a private
domaine. The blogger that's listed here was made by a girl from
Hamphstead, London, England. She made it a few days after
Debbie moved hers, but she's refused to write in it because of
the hate mail that she's gotten about it. I emailed her, and was
fairly decent, and she explained that to me. "Living Colours" is
her band's name in London. But who knows? Debbie fooled me
once, who's to say that she's not trying to do it again.
James
768 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:29am
Subject: Story's getting around... saundra@...
Send Email
I don't have a link, or even a paper name, but my great aunt down in
Florida called to see if I was the Saundra in the newspaper article
about Kaycee. She lives in Largo (not Key Largo) so... it's out there
somewhere, y'all.
Saundra
769 From: "Alastair Alexander"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot group@...
Send Email
'Living Colour' was a band name of a rock band in the late 80s -
so 'Living Colours' (while derivative) is probably a coincidence.
Dunno if that helps.
Al
Quoting kafeiaries@...:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:
> > What new blog is that? Is there a new one similar? Thanks,
> > Heather Paula
>
> Heather, Debbie moved her blog, °living colours° to a
> private
> domaine. The blogger that's listed here was made by a girl from
> Hamphstead, London, England. She made it a few days after
> Debbie moved hers, but she's refused to write in it because of
> the hate mail that she's gotten about it. I emailed her, and
> was
> fairly decent, and she explained that to me. "Living Colours"
> is
> her band's name in London. But who knows? Debbie fooled me
> once, who's to say that she's not trying to do it again.
>
> James
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
Domain disputes - don'tcha love em?
Site - http://www.potterwar.org.uk/
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This message was sent by Easymail - http://www.easynet.co.uk/
770 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:07pm
Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:
> There was a small controversy regarding a weblogger known as
> dead@32, which Grohol hosted, and this thread delves into the
> question of the fatalistic blogger's identity. The entire blog
> seems to have been an invention of Grohol.
That's the conclusion I drew from all the similarities between
Dead@32 and Grohol's other weblog. Dave Winer has also accused Grohol
of being Zaphod, the pseudonymous publisher of Winerlog
(http://winerlog.editthispage.com) after Greg Knauss gave it up.
Dead@32 was an interesting weblog. The premise was that the author
believed he wouldn't live to his 33rd birthday in around September
2001. He never claimed anything about his real identity, though, so
it's not an identity hoax. Lots of weblogs are published by people
who don't provide details about their real names.
771 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Traces mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Bonnie" wrote:
> Just one thing-- how did you guys get those postings traced? Did
> you have to pay to do it? Email me on this, if you don't want to
> post it here: comettailfire@y...
I'm not sure what postings you are referring to, but if you have the
IP address used to post a message or send an e-mail, you can find out
the name of the machine (if it has one) here:
http://cello.cs.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/slamm/ip2name
If you don't know the IP address, you're outta luck.
772 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:10pm
Subject: Re: dead@32 controversy mail@...
Send Email
I was wrong to speak about Dead@32 in the past tense:
http://www.deadat32.com/
773 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 1:45pm
Subject: Media Coverage saundra@...
Send Email
Australia again, another online mag named I.T., but not the same one
as before. The story is here:
http://it.mycareer.com.au/news/2001/06/05/FFXU2YJ4JNC.html
Saundra
774 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: More Media Coverage saundra@...
Send Email
Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco
Gate:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001
/06/05/DD140021.DTL
Saundra
775 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:23pm
Subject: Re: More Media Coverage mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> > Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco
> Gate:
> > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
file=/chronicle/archive/2001
> /06/05/DD140021.DTL
Ugh.
To: Jon Carroll
"She was only text and a few photos on the Internet."
No, she was also long phone calls with at least a dozen people and a
P.O. box that she set up to receive cards and gifts. A child skipped
her allowance to buy gifts to cheer up Kaycee, and now her mother has
to tell the kid it was all a cynical hoax.
Kaycee was also the photos of a woman who had no idea dozens of her
pictures were being used for years on the Internet and in private
correspondence as a cancer sufferer. She loaned them to Debbie
Swenson to make a high school basketball scrapbook. Now everyone who
sent photos to Kaycee, at Debbie's request, is worried that she will
use them the next time she needs attention (which is likely to be
soon).
Kaycee is also real people who are being accused of fraud because
they are using the Web to document their fight against cancer or
another illness.
You really have to ignore a lot to view this loathsome, cynical hoax
as a positive thing. I think you would feel differently if you had
written a story about Kaycee before the ruse was uncovered, and all
you would have lost was a little journalistic credibility.
776 From: hj_new@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:01pm
Subject: Been lurking, thought I'd post. hj_new@...
Send Email
I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe
old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how
little Debbie researched about leukemia beforehand. According to a
passage a read a few weeks ago from Kaycee's blog, she was diagnosed
at a "routine doctor's visit." WHAT? I know a LOT of people who
have leukemia, and not ONE of us was diagnosed at a routine doctor's
visit. Some of us had to wait up to a week for various and sundry
tests to be run. I myself was in the hospital for three days before
my results came back. WHY? Because doctors don't look at children
and think "Oh, that child (or teenager or whatever) has leukemia!"
They want it to be something SIMPLE, FIRST.
What drew me to this particular story as it unfolded was that she
claimed to be a leukemia sufferer. Back in 1989 when I was
diagnosed, my mother was on PC-Link (which later merged with America
Online). We were new to our town and didn't have any friends, she
was newly divorced. She reached out using the Internet (in its
infancy) and received an OVERWHELMING amount of support. People sent
me cards and flowers and stuffed animals - it was amazing. The next
year, when I was better, I did a tour of three "bashes" at met the
people who gave me gifts. It was one of the most amazing things I've
ever done in my life.
This is what makes me angry about Debbie Swenson. She has taken away
a valuable resource to people who are legitimately suffering from
this disease. Now, people who are truly sick and try to reach out on
the internet may be doubted because of this. I know I would hate,
hate, hate for even one person who sent me things and maybe didn't
meet me to think that my mom was like that - that she lied to the
world to get stuff. Not that I'm egotistical enough to think this is
about me, I just think there's been an erosion of public trust.
Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick
(I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew
angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All
the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.
Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.
Thanks for listening!
Heather
777 From: "Tim Cunningham"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot timmopussycat@...
Send Email
Just checked out the above site. Here's what I found (in quotes). I
think someone is playing a game.
"Kaycee's blog
HOME
Archives:
05/20/2001 - 05/26/2001
Joining Billy's Group
Billy O'Dowd decided to let me join his little group of friends
earlier today when I helped them with several things that they needed
to have done. I like Billy and all, but his friends tend to fight all
the time. That isn't cool. People should love each other. I sent Jana
Dozier an email, but I doubt if she will answer it, or even got it.
I think that I should get some sleep. It's late. Almost 4 AM, and I
have that friends-once-again meeting to go to with Billy and his
family and friends. ~Kaycee
posted by Kaycee Nicole Swenson at 3:43 AM"
778 From: "Tara"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:50pm
Subject: Re: More Media Coverage tara@...
Send Email
About the article mentioned below.
I think that what people with this type of viewpoint overlook is that
human beings have a desire for authenticity. We're not just content to
live on "good feelings" - if we were, we'd all be looking forward to
the day a "miracle happiness drug" comes out.
We want our feelings to be in concord with reality. Even if we know
that we cannot touch reality, we try to get close. If we feel and live
a relationship with somebody, we do it on the assumption that it has
some reality - that is it not just fictional or delusional.
We may not be able to attain perfect a perfect collision between what
we feel or think and what is real, but we try to get close. It is a
legitimate desire, and one that gives meaning for us to the world and
our lives.
So when we find that somebody has (voluntarily!) led us to feel things
that had no connection with reality, we feel cheated. We feel mad. And
it's a perfectly normal reaction. We do not want to live in fiction.
We want to live in reality.
Denying this problem is missing a whole point about what life is and
how people function.
There ; ) - I think I've repeated myself enough in this email... I
hope my point gets across.
Tara - who isn't ashamed of wanting to live in the *real* world.
Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...
Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org
Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:31 PM
Subject: kaycee-nicole More Media Coverage
>
> Jon Carroll's defense of the whole situation in the San Francisco
> Gate:
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001
> /06/05/DD140021.DTL
779 From: Peggy Butterworth
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 8:42pm
Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. pbutterw@...
Send Email
Heather, it is very heartening to hear your story. I think your
reaction to treatment was a very healthy one! We should have wondered
at the the 'saccharin-sweetly optomistic' reaction we saw portrayed in
the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to
release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a
frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To
think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does
a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their
disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.
Peggy
hj_new@... wrote:
> I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe
> old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how
>
> Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick
> (I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew
> angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All
> the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.
>
> Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.
> Thanks for listening!
> Heather
780 From: "Dominique"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 9:27pm
Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. dominique@...
Send Email
When I wrote somewhere in a recent post (paraphrasing here): “that it isn’t all white picket fences and windblown oak trees,” I was speaking from personal experience too. Although I hadn’t been diagnosed with cancer yet, I was waiting for results after my dr. discovered cysts on my left breast. The truth was that I was pissed all hell. Not at the world at large, but at the disease which threatened my life as I knew it. Now that my results have come in and that the cysts are benign, I can still vividly recall the anger and the frustration of it all.
The truth of the matter is, people were willing to believe in the sweet romantic Kaycee version because the real story wouldn’t have been as comforting to read. When my own results weren’t as forthcoming as my dr. had promised, I went on an exasperated rampage of phone calls trying to find out what was wrong with me. Nobody would have been interested in reading about that in a weblog. Real survivors, or even the threatened ones like me, don’t just sit back on porch swings and watch sunsets. They fight like hell, and detest projecting themselves as victims. The last thing a real fighter wants to hear is “oh you poor baby”, blah, blah, blah. While my own mother was dying in her hospital bed of breast cancer, she pulled out all of her intravenous needles and tried to escape her room in the middle of the night. When the priest arrived to give her last rites she opened her eyes (even though she had been in a drug induced haze for days) and stared at him with all the defiance she could muster. When the nurses told me about her so-called “bad episode” the next morning, I knew what she was trying to do. She was telling them all to go fuck themselves, she wasn’t dead yet! That’s what REAL warriors do.
The writer in San Francisco needs a clue. Comparing celebrity divorces and stories about the President’s children to cancer sufferers, is like comparing rags like The National Enquire to the New York Times. Phooey on him!
D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peggy Butterworth
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Been lurking, thought I'd post.
Heather, it is very heartening to hear your story. I think your
reaction to treatment was a very healthy one! We should have wondered
at the the 'saccharin-sweetly optomistic' reaction we saw portrayed in
the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to
release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a
frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To
think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does
a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their
disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.
Peggy
hj_new@hotmail.com wrote:
> I was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia in 1989, at the ripe
> old age of 11. What has struck me about this entire saga is just how
>
> Also - if I had been as saccharin-sweetly optimistic while I was sick
> (I was an angry little cancer patient - I hit my doctor and drew
> angry pictures), they would have encouraged me to write a book. All
> the world loves an inspirational cancer story, as Debbie discovered.
>
> Anyway, I thought I'd share a survivor's take on things.
> Thanks for listening!
> Heather
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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781 From: David Moisan
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Been lurking, thought I'd post. dmoisan@...
Send Email
At 04:42 PM 6/5/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>the living colours blog, rather than embracing it. The ability to
>release the anger generated by invasive and painful treatments and a
>frightening prognosis must be very beneficial to long-term survival. To
>think that the 'good' response to cancer is to be cheery and bright does
>a disservice to the real warriors, who battle fiercely against their
>disease. Thanks for your viewpoint.
That isn't the only disservice it does. During the time that the KC
persona existed, how many children and teens were diagnosed with leukemia
or some other form of cancer? How many of these kids were told, "See how
Kaycee is dealing with it? She's a hero! Chin up and be Happy!
How many more never got support because they didn't have the "right" attitude?
I said it before and I'll repeat it: THAT is the worst part of the Kaycee
Nichole story. No one in the media even notices (they like happy stories,
with the bad parts included only so long as there's a good ending.)
(Yes, I lost my mom to cancer. It was nothing like Reader's Digest.)
Take care,
Dave
David Moisan, N1KGH ARES/SKYWARN dmoisan@...
Invisible Disability:
http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/invisible_disability.html
ATS-909 FAQ: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/faqs/sangean/ats909faq.html
782 From: DramaQueenH@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 7:06pm
Subject: Re: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot DramaQueenH@...
So what is the address of this website? Thanks!
Always,
Heather Paula
783 From: "Tim Cunningham"
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 11:42pm
Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot timmopussycat@...
Send Email
The address is:
http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:
>
> So what is the address of this website? Thanks!
> Always,
> Heather Paula
784 From: acridrabbit@...
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 11:55pm
Subject: Re: Living Colours at Blogspot acridrabbit@...
Send Email
Somebody's definitely having a joke. That looks very different from
the last time I checked in. Wonder what the scoop is? It's
definitely not some British chick in manchester and her blog aout her
band, which somebody posted was the case.
Snort.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Tim Cunningham"
wrote:
> The address is:
>
> http://livingcolours.blogspot.com/
>
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., DramaQueenH@a... wrote:
> >
> > So what is the address of this website? Thanks!
> > Always,
> > Heather Paula
785 From: "nesserbelle"