Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:25am
Subject: ruminations. garbanzo666@...
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Now that the frenzy has died down, I need to sort this mess out.
So I didn't know the Kaycee blog even existed until she "died." I
did not care either way. Personally, I find the whole notion of
publicizing one's terminal illness a bit baffling, but I'm a very
private person, and I think I can see why someone would chronicle the
trials of their struggle and how they face death for all to see. But
I had absolutely no connection to this "person."
So here I am, not 24 hours after I was in a chat room screaming my
fool head off about how Debbie was obviously in love with Halcyon,
and hearing Matt relay what the CNN stringer was telling him, and I
have to wonder why the hell I cared.
"There's no justice like angry mob justice."
True, there were people who invested themselves in
Kaycee's "struggle." And they were very earnest in their concern and
mourning, so I will not criticize them. I don't think it's wrong to
be cynical, but it is good to see that emotional connections are
possible over such a cold and digital medium. I think maybe the
blogging/journalling community may need to toughen up a bit, but hey,
I have a touch of cynicism in me.
And there were people who sent Kaycee gifts and whatnot. Quite
frankly, I'm baffled by this, but then again, I have a hard time
remembering my dad's birthday, so I won't judge anyone's motives
about that. I do think, however, that any cries for justice
regarding mail fraud are specious at best and a justification to
indulge in a little privacy invasion at worst.. There was no overt
solicitation, from what I understand, and if there was an email
circulated about Kaycee, I am led to believe it was done by a third
party. And really, if someone sent money based on a forwarded email,
I've got some penis enlargement spam for them.
And of course, there were people like BWG and Halcyon, who completely
opened their hearts and devoted so much time and energy to a
fictional person. I think Halcyon will recover rather quick - he
seems to have that kind of boundless energy. BWG seems like the kind
of guy who will brood on this for a long, long time. Again, these
are all - shock! - impressions of people based off a web site. Which
are still as valid as they were before we knew about Debbie Swensen.
So that leaves the rest of us, who fell into this weekend frenzy
scouring the Internet for any fucking clues as to what was going on.
Why? Why did we go absolutely apeshit?
Why, the thrill of the hunt, and a puzzle that was begging to be
solved. I was a damn busybody, betcher ass. It was compelling,
mostly because it was so goddamn weird. I've said this before: if
this was some sort of straightforward hoax where money was solicited
or something, the community would have been furious, but we wouldn't
have crossed several lines in trying to figure out "the truth." But
no, you had this woman in Kansas taking over an online avatar based
on a basketball player the family admired, and turning her into this
plastic Jesus of Leukemia, this holy savant of endless optimism in
the face of hellish adversity. And then you had the mother's blog,
some sort of meta-commentary, to add into all that. Add to that a
confession that only stirred more speculation than it ended, and you
have an enticing mix that is irrestible to a community that reacts to
the slightest beating of a butterfly's wing.
For a while, I was feeling some sense of accomplishment over the
investigation. We busted a fraud! Whoo-hoo! But really, what did
we do?
We exposed a lady in Kansas who was lying in her blog.
I mean, it was good detective work - making the connection with Julie
was a leap I never would have even considered - but there were so
many wild speculations occurring. It was BWG or Halcyon's fault. It
was Audra Lea, who has become the Kato Kaelin of this whole sorry
affair. She was after money. No, attention. No, love. No, it was
this or that.
So we made lots of noise and managed to pressure a crippled
confession out of her, and then a stringer for CNN whose day job was
reporting on aviation news interviewed her and got a more solid truth.
I can't help thinking that for all the mental energy I poured into
this thing, the results have been sadly lacking. I don't mean this
to be facile or whine about the lack of attention paid to me: as
much as I was ranting in the chatroom last night, I sure didn't want
to be attached to any news story. But the cries for justice and
demands for the truth ring hollow to me now.
People were making long-distance calls to total strangers in Kansas.
People were talking about flying there. (I doubt they were serious,
but still...) People were calling government officials.
All because some poor screwed-up woman in Kansas pretended for two
years to be someone else and, in her own demented way, share an
experience.
No, I don't want this to be a "gosh, aren't we all bad people for
doing this" email, but I think now that the frenzy has calmed down,
we should examine our roles in this, and what will result of it.
It sure as hell won't be a media barrage. I bought into the self-
generated hype that we would be breaking a major news story here.
But people...we're talking Geraldo-level news here. The stringer
that Matt talked to hyped him up and snowed him. Saundra's
experience and the screw-up in the MSNBC article reinforce the idea
that journalists care nothing for the truth, but everything for a
good story. Off the front page in less than a day - no one was
biting, so it got tossed onto the scrap heap. Another Internet curio.
And this has less to do with the status of the weblogging community
(hint: not as large/important as you think it is) and more with what
was exposed. Which was, again, some woman pretending to be a cancer
patient to spread warmth and hope to a few hundred people. To those
few hundred people, it sucks, sure, but life goes on.
I hope I haven't come across as reproachful or self-righteous,
because I'm certainly not. I'm just bothered by anytime I act
without thinking things through, and I think this was such a time.
And for all the energy I devoted trying to discern Debbie's motives,
I should spend some trying to understand mine.
In the end, I went on a wild goose chase and came away with nothing
but some sleep deprivation and the knowledge that people won't fake
cancer blogs anymore.
Hmmmm.
Now I think I'll stop thinking about Kaycee for a while.
-- sjc (solistrato)
229 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:29am
Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC sarapture@...
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Don't mean to burst yer bubble there detective, but the law for privacy
is different in all 50 states. ;) If you really wanna knock yerself
out have a gander at findlaw.com and check out privacy law there under
state law....And of course this is the internet, so which state's law
will apply?
Regarding malice, it's judicial (Supreme Court largely) opinions that
have added the layers of requirements for malice, etc., and that is not
reflected in the treatise you found. A good one for you to check out if
you're interested is Hustler vs. Falwell...that's one of the first in
the series of decisions carving the privacy law standards as I
recall...
Privacy law is very complicated. That's why we law folks make the big
bucks. hehe.(this isn't my field though obviously...)
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> > Actually, I think actual malice is only required when the person being
> > defamed is a public figure. I think the standard for private citizens
> > is knowing falsehood or reckless disregard for the truth...It's been
> > almost 10 years since my torts course in law school though so i can't
> > remember!
> >
> > With regard to defamation, I think that actually the wrong here would
> > be a different type of privacy violation - false association or false
> > light invasion of privacy..again, it's been awhile...Anyone up for some
> > further detective look up the law of privacy? (maybe Prosser & Keeton
> > on Torts is available online now)...the privacy realm is where you will
> > find most of your civil violations here methinks...
>
> OK, I've found some things:
>
> http://library.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getfile.pl?FILE=firms/graycary/gcwf000026&TITLE=Subject&TOPIC=Injury%20%20Tort%20Law_Defamation/Libel/Slander&FILENAME=injurytortlaw_1_213
>
> (Sorry for the really long link.)
>
> 'Defamation is a statement of fact, not opinion, which is false, unprivileged, and harms another's reputation by exposing him or her to hatred or ridicule, or which causes her or him to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him or her in occupation or business.'
>
> I think that "ridicule" is extremely likely here. Hatred is unlikely but that is not required. The fact is that Julie has been publicly humiliated, irrevocably tied to a major scandal.
>
> '"False light" is another theory of legal liability similar to defamation. The only real difference between the elements of false light and defamation is that the falsehood need not be defamatory to sustain liability, but need merely be false and cause offense to a person of reasonable sensibilities. Thus, "fictionalizing" or "shading" true facts in a false, offensive way may give rise to liability, despite the fact the facts are true and not defamatory.'
>
> Interestingly, it makes no mention of malice.
>
> ---------
>
> There may also be a case here for "misappropriation":
>
> http://library.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getfile.pl?FILE=firms/dwt/dwt000023&TITLE=Subject&TOPIC=Injury%20%20Tort%20Law_Privacy&FILENAME=injurytortlaw_1_216
230 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:44am
Subject: More legal references on libel sdenbes1@...
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.033
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.034
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.035
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.036
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.037
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/CyberLaw_Course/cyberlaw.038
#38 in particular is interesting, because it touches on identity theft.
http://www.eff.org/pub/Censorship/Academic_edu/CAF/law/libel.definitions
It turns out that malice is required for any libel. For public figures, the legal term is "actual malice" which is a higher standard. In this context, Julie would be considered a "private figure" which requires the lower legal hurdle "malice", but this still requires "ill will, spite" -- and that is absolutely missing here. If anything, both Debbie and Kelli idolized Julie. They published falsehoods about Julie which will cause Julie to suffer ridicule, but did so without malice.
Identity theft, on the other hand, may be a problem. I'll keep looking.
231 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:54am
Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC raysmj@...
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--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Ray Mikell" wrote:
> > > 3. Civil action: libel (Julie)
> > Libel is a type of defamation, first off, which implies a false
> > statement(s) that harms a person's standing within a community
(in
> > short, you'll be hated and have people throw large pieces of
fruit at
> > you, spit in your face, burn crosses on your lawn, fail to invite
you
> > to parties of the sort you'd been invited to before, etc.) or or
> > professional reputation. And I don't see how Julie was defamed
here,
> > much less defamed with actual malice (that is, willfully and with
ill
> > intent), which is required in almost all U.S. cases. Such a suit
> > would be thrown out of court.
>
> Well, as I said, I'm not a lawyer. But I though public humiliation
was a form of libel, and Julie is going to get a lot of grief about
this from the people in her town, and from her classmates when she
returns to college.
Not a lawyer here. PoliSci doctoral student. But this might be a
borderline case. I was told for years, both in journalism school and
in years of newspaper writing (still freelance) that in libel a
person's reputation must be damaged. The Associated Press definition
is, however, "publication of writing, pictures or cartoons that
expose a person to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or
induce an ill opinion of a person, and are not true."
That's more expansive than the classic definition, and of course as
noted before there are all kinds of quicks of state laws, case law,
etc. Meantime, though, you're refreshing my memory a tad. In photos,
if I remember correctly, you can remove part of caption and change a
photo's meaning and be sued for libel. Then you can use the picture
for some embarassing purpose (something along the lines of say, a
feature story in the Sunday style section on STDs with your pic next
to it when you thought this was an article about quality dentistry).
But is the Julie case that bad? Have to wait and see, is all you can
do.
232 From: acridrabbit@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:59am
Subject: Re: ruminations. acridrabbit@...
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You, my friend, have spelled it out admirably. Yeah. Exactly. Good
job, & etc.
233 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re: ruminations. raysmj@...
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Except that the story's still on the front page at MSNBC as I type,
and was a top 10 story in reader stats (which are hardly scientific).
Also, I presume that much of the "caring" was done for as much
entertainment as the hunting down of facts. And the caring-as-
entertainment is partly what led to this. I'm not going to give my
personal reasons as to thinking why, but I don't think grieving for a
family member or someone close to you who has died is anything
remotely like grieving for someone in a movie. It's more tangled and
complex.
Also, family and friends are always around. I can say with some
certainty that people stop visiting people most folks in the hospital
after a week, forget they are even there, unless they're extremely
well known. And then who's there to take care of you? There's a
reason why most people will often seem to care more about strangers
than their own family members. Family and friendship is a complicated
thing, one you can't all that easily get away from, if ever at all,
and familiarity does breed, if not contempt, a multitude of emotions
and memories good and bad and mundane. I hate to sound cold, but it's
true.
234 From: Kerri Shafer
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:18am
Subject: Re: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links kerrishafer2000@...
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Not that I want to be one to defend Debbie, but I have
said this in the Chat many times, but it's worth
saying again: In small towns such as Gracemont, it's
not uncommon for many people in town to follow their
local school's sports teams closely. Frankly, there's
not a lot else to do on a Friday night. (Trust me --
I've been there.
It seems that Debbie's fixation on Julie was
unnatural, but the fact that the school's b-ball
schedule was posted was probably a matter of pride,
not stalking.
Then again, who knows!?! Nothing in this whole thing
follows the norm! :-)
--- clstamper@... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."
>
> > The BBall schedule is for Gracemont Junior High.
> >
> > (I just thought of this. They have that so they
> could follow Julie
> > around. God that's scary.)
>
> Did you ever see the movie "Bowfinger?"
>
> Stamper
>
>
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
235 From: Rory Ewins
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:29am
Subject: And other ruminations... rory@...
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Since this thread over past days saw a lot of self-linking, even on
MeFi, I won't feel bad about doing the same:
http://speedysnail.com/walkingwest/3/2001_05_20_archive.html#3757052
The initial stuff is familiar to you all (for my own audience), and a
couple of points recap my last couple of emails, but keep going -
there's a point developed from those that I don't recall having read
in the 800+ MeFi posts or here.
(Sorry if they overlap with anyone's emails of the past hour or so...
couldn't read them, busy writing.)
236 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:27am
Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Debbie might be indicted on stalking charges. Even given that high
school sports are held on a pedestal in small towns (I can personally
relate to that), her fixation on Julie was way, way out of bounds.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Kerri Shafer wrote:
> Not that I want to be one to defend Debbie, but I have
> said this in the Chat many times, but it's worth
> saying again: In small towns such as Gracemont, it's
> not uncommon for many people in town to follow their
> local school's sports teams closely.
237 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:29am
Subject: Re: More legal references on libel captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
I just told the world you died of cancer. Would that be malicious to
you?
238 From: Rory Ewins
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:43am
Subject: Re: ruminations. rory@...
Send Email
>All because some poor screwed-up woman in Kansas pretended for two
>years to be someone else and, in her own demented way, share an
>experience.
And let's not underestimate how easy it is to keep a hoax going for
two years, particularly if you feel it's 'no big deal' that 'isn't
hurting anyone' (as Debbie seems to - she felt her feel-good messages
were helping others, and by the looks of it she was right, at least
up until last week).
No, a hoax is easy to keep going. Just add a little bit here, a
little bit there, every day or so... just like a weblog. Now there's
a coincidence. ;)
>Now I think I'll stop thinking about Kaycee for a while.
Amen to that. See you all back on MeFi.
239 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:54am
Subject: Re: ruminations. captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
you need a big /pounce!
240 From: jjg@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:33am
Subject: new chat venue jjg@...
Send Email
The crowd has moved to IRC EFNet #kaycee. I think the rationale was that
logs could be saved, plus it's a bit more stable than Yahoo's client.
241 From: "Jon Sullivan"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:39am
Subject: Re: ruminations. jon@...
Send Email
Okay. I just got off from jury duty. Between that and the Kaycee hoax
I'm really having a hard time finding something positive tonight. But
here are my thoughts:
"Which was, again, some woman pretending to be a cancer patient to
spread warmth and hope to a few hundred people."
No. That's how smug come-latlies are spinning this. Here's what
happened.
Julie has her photo splashed all over the Internet by Debbie who is
flirting with men/boys and sending them Julie's picture signed by
Kaycee. Debbie's daughter has been taught that it's okay to pretend
she has terminal cancer whenever anyone calls the house. The PO box
in Peabody has been closed, but not before people all over the
country sent gift certificates and care packages to it (none ever
returned) thinking they would go to someone who had lost her hair
from chemo. It's a real fucking laugh fest. Debbie is bragging about
the jewelry she got.
Debbie can whine all she wants now. This was had zero good intent. It
was crazy or it was malicious. It was never innocent.
"I'm just bothered by anytime I act without thinking things
through, and I think this was such a time."
We're there with ya. We're all asking ourselves this.
I don't see the witch hunt. I don't see the trampling horde. I see a
pack of focused, concerned people following the right path.
I'm proud of you folks. And if you ever did this in a mob-like
frenzy, and victimized innocent moms in Kansas I'd be the first to
call you on it.
We're okay here. And I think we're smart enough to know the
difference.
I just did jury duty. I have little faith in mankind right now. But I
have faith in you folks. I really do.
Jon Sullivan
http://www.jonsullivan.com/
242 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:12am
Subject: Re: More legal references on libel sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy." wrote:
>
> I just told the world you died of cancer. Would that be malicious to
> you?
If you did so with intent to harm me, and if it did indeed harm me, then yes.
But the mere fact of you making such a statement isn't legally sufficient to prove libel. It's also necessary to demonstrate harm and evil intent.
243 From:
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:36am
Subject: Copyright photo stuff jr@...
Send Email
Having an exroommate this is a photographer helps on this one. I don't understand how, or why, but regardless of who is in the picture, it is copyright the photographer. It doesn't matter if its the damn Pope. Just so I can build him a website with pics from various photographers, I have to fill out a million copyright type forms. What a pain. Not sure where this fits in as I haven't been paying real close attention in the last few hours, so take it as you wish.
J.R.
www.bentbrokenme.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Sullivan
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 1:39 AM
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: ruminations.
Okay. I just got off from jury duty. Between that and the Kaycee hoax
I'm really having a hard time finding something positive tonight. But
here are my thoughts:
"Which was, again, some woman pretending to be a cancer patient to
spread warmth and hope to a few hundred people."
No. That's how smug come-latlies are spinning this. Here's what
happened.
Julie has her photo splashed all over the Internet by Debbie who is
flirting with men/boys and sending them Julie's picture signed by
Kaycee. Debbie's daughter has been taught that it's okay to pretend
she has terminal cancer whenever anyone calls the house. The PO box
in Peabody has been closed, but not before people all over the
country sent gift certificates and care packages to it (none ever
returned) thinking they would go to someone who had lost her hair
from chemo. It's a real fucking laugh fest. Debbie is bragging about
the jewelry she got.
Debbie can whine all she wants now. This was had zero good intent. It
was crazy or it was malicious. It was never innocent.
"I'm just bothered by anytime I act without thinking things
through, and I think this was such a time."
We're there with ya. We're all asking ourselves this.
I don't see the witch hunt. I don't see the trampling horde. I see a
pack of focused, concerned people following the right path.
I'm proud of you folks. And if you ever did this in a mob-like
frenzy, and victimized innocent moms in Kansas I'd be the first to
call you on it.
We're okay here. And I think we're smart enough to know the
difference.
I just did jury duty. I have little faith in mankind right now. But I
have faith in you folks. I really do.
Jon Sullivan
http://www.jonsullivan.com/
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244 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:10am
Subject: My thoughts-from a person affected by the incident truesolace00@...
I was a host on College Club.com at the time 'Kaycee' became a host.
I initally met 'Kaycee' over concern of another member at the time
under the name of JM (I will not disclose the member's name out of
respect for his privacy). This was back in Feb 99'. Shortly after.
She sent me an email and at the time and I *thought* at the time the
person I spoke to was an extremely special person.
We conversated over the phone on several occasion and she embraced me
as a sister like she did Nicole, Christine, Beth, Heather, and
several others on the site. I am Nika--another one of the them. I
shared intimiate things with this person and I helped through several
situations she was going through at the time as she sought my counsel
on several occasion. Yes, she did date a young man through the site
named Nick (whose acutal username on CC I will not disclose) and did
had ties to several others through citzen x and former cc staff if i
recall correctly.
She do quite a bit of work on the site as a host and was extremely
active in her work on CC and its sister site highscoolclub.com. Now
with everything coming to light and considering the 'fact' that there
was a supposed trust fund out there (who knows if that is even true)
considering the fact that Kaycee was online during the day--I have
reason to believe that Debbie was doing mostly that legwork with her
daughter next in tow--One clue to that is that in our first
conversation is that 'she' said that her 'sister' (now known to be
kelli-her daughter) created the 'kutebabe' name and that 'she took it
over' which now leads me to believe that the voice of Kaycee was more
than likely supplied by debbie. 'Debbie' also came into the picture a
short time before that and later 'Ash' and 'Dr John' which I now
believe are *not* real ppl just chracters as well.
When this 'cancer' hit she let us know and as family on CC all of us
rallied behind her--The support group was formed and living colors
was in fruitation. Suns from the site went up many places in CC's web
community and around the web in show of support for her. Prior to
that a 50+ page paper on 'her life' was sent to us in her inner
circle of friends and yes, it was vivid and very detailed but looking
at it now disturbing. I like many sent her presents and ecards and
before I learned that this was a hoax--I even brought a card from the
christian bookstore and writing what a strong woman she was and an
amazing mother. Needless to say I ask for my mother to remove the
card from the mailbox once I found out.
Like many who knew her I feel hurt and betrayed. It is one thing to
want to tell your story but it is another to put on a mask for almost
two years. Debbie could have stopped her daughter--instead she took
it over creating a monster that has spiraled out of control. She took
advantage of us all especially Randy who opened his heart (and space
to them on his site) and John who bulit a tight bond with her. Also
on top of that she manipulated the trust of a young woman and her
family who had no idea what was going on. I feel that now that they
know they have every right to file a suit against her and I don't
blame them. I would if I knew someone I trusted had posted my
pictures on the web especially under false pretenses.
Yes, there was fictional chrachter that we all grew to love who
inspired each of us but the harsh reality is that it is the
combination of an attention hungry teen and a disturbed mother who
kept the games going long after she found out. If there is any action
I hope that justice is served however I believe that Debbie needs
some serious serious help alongside her daughter who created this
persona from the get go.
I don't know how many people in here are christians but as one I
believe that the Lord works in mysterious ways and I believe that he
used individuals around the web (metafi and other blogs included) to
bring out what once laid in the darkness straight into the light.
Hopefully proper action will be taken so she doesn't do this to
anyone *AGAIN*
Thanks for listening,
Kanika
p.s I also want it to be known is that certain individuals have
blamed CC in its own way for having been heavily involved in the
fiasco with the 'kutebabe/kcscoolmom' being accounts on the website
and that its a bad reflection on them. I WANT IT TO BE KNOWN that IT
IS NOT THEIR FAULT. There are almost a million accoutnts on the site
(and some change) and like all of us, the staff at CC didn't know
about this either as quite a few were close to 'her' like myself,
Nicole, and others who knew 'her' via CC. I can tell you that CC
staff does what it has to do to keep the site on pointe and believe
me if there was any supcious activity it would have been looked into
immediately--they were duped like the rest of us.
245 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:05pm
Subject: Could it be possible that the leukemia victim....could have been Alissa??? truesolace00@...
I was just thinking...as I put together the pieces for my own self
and piece of mind I keep thinking about a young child named Alisa
whom Debbie/KC introuduced to many people through her CC website. She
was a young leukemia victim who was battling who passed i believe
sometime in Novemeber 2000. I think there may be a connection between
the leukemia victim references and this young child. I believe it is
on the Kutebabe page on CC.
Just a thought...
Kanika
246 From: "Laurie"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:53pm
Subject: Re: My thoughts-from a person affected by the incident wallflower67@...
Send Email
You people who knew her for years were affected the most, and I really
feel for you guys.
I am someone who linked to the kaycee/debbie blogs through a real
cancer support group, so I can assure you that there are real people
with cancer out there who read them. I had thought about sending the
links to my dad (who is about to undergo a BMT next month). I'm now
really glad that I didn't do that!
Debbie must be a pretty sick puppy. Sometimes in life, people just
aren't who they seem to be. It's not just on the internet either,
though by using the internet, Debbie managed to affect a lot more
people than she would have otherwise.
I'm pretty fascinated by the psychology behind her actions. (morbid
curiosity, I guess!)
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was a host on College Club.com at the time 'Kaycee' became a host.
> I initally met 'Kaycee' over concern of another member at the time
> under the name of JM (I will not disclose the member's name out of
> respect for his privacy). This was back in Feb 99'. Shortly after.
> She sent me an email and at the time and I *thought* at the time the
> person I spoke to was an extremely special person.
>
> We conversated over the phone on several occasion and she embraced
me
> as a sister like she did Nicole, Christine, Beth, Heather, and
> several others on the site. I am Nika--another one of the them. I
> shared intimiate things with this person and I helped through
several
> situations she was going through at the time as she sought my
counsel
> on several occasion. Yes, she did date a young man through the site
> named Nick (whose acutal username on CC I will not disclose) and did
> had ties to several others through citzen x and former cc staff if i
> recall correctly.
>
> She do quite a bit of work on the site as a host and was extremely
> active in her work on CC and its sister site highscoolclub.com. Now
> with everything coming to light and considering the 'fact' that
there
> was a supposed trust fund out there (who knows if that is even true)
> considering the fact that Kaycee was online during the day--I have
> reason to believe that Debbie was doing mostly that legwork with her
> daughter next in tow--One clue to that is that in our first
> conversation is that 'she' said that her 'sister' (now known to be
> kelli-her daughter) created the 'kutebabe' name and that 'she took
it
> over' which now leads me to believe that the voice of Kaycee was
more
> than likely supplied by debbie. 'Debbie' also came into the picture
a
> short time before that and later 'Ash' and 'Dr John' which I now
> believe are *not* real ppl just chracters as well.
>
> When this 'cancer' hit she let us know and as family on CC all of us
> rallied behind her--The support group was formed and living colors
> was in fruitation. Suns from the site went up many places in CC's
web
> community and around the web in show of support for her. Prior to
> that a 50+ page paper on 'her life' was sent to us in her inner
> circle of friends and yes, it was vivid and very detailed but
looking
> at it now disturbing. I like many sent her presents and ecards and
> before I learned that this was a hoax--I even brought a card from
the
> christian bookstore and writing what a strong woman she was and an
> amazing mother. Needless to say I ask for my mother to remove the
> card from the mailbox once I found out.
>
> Like many who knew her I feel hurt and betrayed. It is one thing to
> want to tell your story but it is another to put on a mask for
almost
> two years. Debbie could have stopped her daughter--instead she took
> it over creating a monster that has spiraled out of control. She
took
> advantage of us all especially Randy who opened his heart (and space
> to them on his site) and John who bulit a tight bond with her. Also
> on top of that she manipulated the trust of a young woman and her
> family who had no idea what was going on. I feel that now that they
> know they have every right to file a suit against her and I don't
> blame them. I would if I knew someone I trusted had posted my
> pictures on the web especially under false pretenses.
>
> Yes, there was fictional chrachter that we all grew to love who
> inspired each of us but the harsh reality is that it is the
> combination of an attention hungry teen and a disturbed mother who
> kept the games going long after she found out. If there is any
action
> I hope that justice is served however I believe that Debbie needs
> some serious serious help alongside her daughter who created this
> persona from the get go.
>
> I don't know how many people in here are christians but as one I
> believe that the Lord works in mysterious ways and I believe that he
> used individuals around the web (metafi and other blogs included) to
> bring out what once laid in the darkness straight into the light.
> Hopefully proper action will be taken so she doesn't do this to
> anyone *AGAIN*
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Kanika
>
> p.s I also want it to be known is that certain individuals have
> blamed CC in its own way for having been heavily involved in the
> fiasco with the 'kutebabe/kcscoolmom' being accounts on the website
> and that its a bad reflection on them. I WANT IT TO BE KNOWN that IT
> IS NOT THEIR FAULT. There are almost a million accoutnts on the site
> (and some change) and like all of us, the staff at CC didn't know
> about this either as quite a few were close to 'her' like myself,
> Nicole, and others who knew 'her' via CC. I can tell you that CC
> staff does what it has to do to keep the site on pointe and believe
> me if there was any supcious activity it would have been looked into
> immediately--they were duped like the rest of us.
247 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Could it be possible that the leukemia victim....could have been Alissa??? sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I was just thinking...as I put together the pieces for my own self
> and piece of mind I keep thinking about a young child named Alisa
> whom Debbie/KC introuduced to many people through her CC website. She
> was a young leukemia victim who was battling who passed i believe
> sometime in Novemeber 2000. I think there may be a connection between
> the leukemia victim references and this young child. I believe it is
> on the Kutebabe page on CC.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Kanika
That's an interesting thought. The problem is that we only have Debbie's word for the fact that this girl did die of leukemia. For all we know, that picture is just a genuine as the pictures of Julie are, and that story is just as genuine as Kaycee's story. Note that the story of that little girl was delivered by Debbie in her guise as Kaycee (which was a lie). Why should we believe it?
Until there is independent confirmation of the story of that girl it would be best to remain skeptical. At this point, I no longer believe anything whatever Debbie has said unless it's independently verified.
And I think it would be wrong to pursue this part of the story. It's not essential to determining the real issue (the fact that Kaycee was a fabrication) and it only risks invading the privacy of yet another person.
248 From: "Laurie"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 0:56pm
Subject: Re: Could it be possible that the leukemia victim....could have been Alissa??? wallflower67@...
Send Email
Here's another thought: when the father abandoned "kaycee" and
"debbie" just as they needed him the most, could it be that Debbie's
real husband found out what she was up to and left?
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I was just thinking...as I put together the pieces for my own self
> and piece of mind I keep thinking about a young child named Alisa
> whom Debbie/KC introuduced to many people through her CC website.
She
> was a young leukemia victim who was battling who passed i believe
> sometime in Novemeber 2000. I think there may be a connection
between
> the leukemia victim references and this young child. I believe it is
> on the Kutebabe page on CC.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Kanika
249 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? & request for Gracemont links mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Eve" wrote:
> Also, could someone please post the sites like Gracemont High
School
> for the connections to Julie, please? I've done searches for
> Gracemont High, but can't find anything that fills in this detail.
> Guess I'm just wanting to see the trail with my own eyes.
I don't think Gracemont has a Web site. I found the roster and
uniform details for the school here:
http://www.okhss.com/Rivals/girls%20basketball/schedulepage.cgi?
TEAM=Gracemont&CLAS=Class%20B&YEAR=1999-2000
250 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Photo of Debbie? mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> I don't mean that. The same entry also contains the proper identity
for Julie. The entry is dated Monday. Julie's identity was discovered
this morning.
BWG is in Hong Kong. His site wasn't updated with Julie's name until
at least 10-12 hours after it was uncovered here.
251 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:14pm
Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., velocityiseverything@y... wrote:
> Julie would have to give a model release to the photographer to be
> published or he would have had to certify he had copyright on the
> photo to let others use it for commercial purposes.
A news publication does not need model releases from the subjects of
photographs. Otherwise, you would never see a photo in a newspaper in
which someone is making a fool of himself.
252 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:22pm
Subject: Re: That story in MSNBC mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Rory Ewins wrote:
> You're right, of course. And if she'd left off the PO Box, any
> photos, and any other means of verification, well, you'd have to
ask
> - would she have been so readily believed?
I think the biggest reason Kaycee was trusted was the price of being
wrong. If you accuse a woman dying of cancer of being a fake, and
someone responds with concrete proof of her existence, you're the
biggest asshole on the planet. That's why I'm impressed with the
people who spoke up about their suspicions before the facts were
known (as opposed to jumping in now and scolding anyone who ever
believed it).
253 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:36pm
Subject: Re: Could it be possible that the leukemia victim....could have been Alissa??? mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> That's an interesting thought. The problem is that we only have
Debbie's word for the fact that this girl did die of leukemia. For
all we know, that picture is just a genuine as the pictures of Julie
are, and that story is just as genuine as Kaycee's story. Note that
the story of that little girl was delivered by Debbie in her guise as
Kaycee (which was a lie). Why should we believe it?
I don't see any reason to believe anything coming from Debbie Swenson
(certainly not the odious efforts to blame her child). Now that the
legal authorities are involved, let them sort it out.
254 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:37pm
Subject: This is the REAL face of leukemia sdenbes1@...
THIS makes me cry.
255 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:46pm
Subject: Re: This is the REAL face of leukemia mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> http://q.queso.com/nancysDeath
>
> THIS makes me cry.
I read that too.
Here's another site from the real world:
http://www.songsforsummer.com
Summer Brannin died at age 21 of cancer, and her boyfriend put her
art and other things online in her honor. (It was originally planned
as something they could work on together, but she died a few months
after being diagnosed.)
256 From: "Dwivian"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 1:47pm
Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage dwivian@...
Send Email
> Started moments ago:
> http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1
> Saundra
And, the headline got sent out on the MSNBC Pager network. My hip
buzzed, and I was reading, AGAIN, about Kaycee. I'm going to have to
switch back to financial news only, I guess. *grin*
So, this got spewed to the world in a big way.... when will CNN and
FoxNews start rolling their trucks?
257 From: "Paige"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:10pm
Subject: Radio paige452@...
Send Email
My brother just got up and he said "Did you hear that?" I
said "what?" he said "Kaycee Nicole.." I said "On the radio?!
What'd they say?" "Just that it's a hoax and people sent all kinds
of stuff, yada yada.."
Interesting! Good morning everyone :)
258 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:25pm
Subject: International Coverage (????) saundra@...
Send Email
No (and I'm sorry, I don't speak the language, so I don't know if it's
a magazine or a newspaper, I'd guess magazine from the name) in Brazil
are running a story about this this morning.
http://www.no.com.br/servlets/newstorm.notitia.apresentacao.ServletDeN
oticia?codigoDaNoticia=21877&dataDoJornal=atual
Saundra
259 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Could it be possible that the leukemia victim....could have been Alissa??? truesolace00@...
Send Email
you know I wonder the same thing....I wouldn't be suprised if he
files for divorce in this matter. I would be appalled if I was in his
shoes knowing that my wife was playing around on the internet. If I
was him if he is in the marriage I would leave too.
Kanika
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Laurie" wrote:
> Here's another thought: when the father abandoned "kaycee" and
> "debbie" just as they needed him the most, could it be that
Debbie's
> real husband found out what she was up to and left?
>
>
>
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., truesolace00@e... wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I was just thinking...as I put together the pieces for my own
self
> > and piece of mind I keep thinking about a young child named Alisa
> > whom Debbie/KC introuduced to many people through her CC website.
> She
> > was a young leukemia victim who was battling who passed i believe
> > sometime in Novemeber 2000. I think there may be a connection
> between
> > the leukemia victim references and this young child. I believe it
is
> > on the Kutebabe page on CC.
> >
> > Just a thought...
> >
> > Kanika
260 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: Re: International Coverage (????) captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Bah, it's portuguese. who cares.
(I'm kidding of course.)
Babelfish.altavista.com will give you a crappy translation.
the first line comes out to this: "It says an old one dictated of the
network, in the Internet nobody knows if you it is a dog."
I.e.; unreadable.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> No (and I'm sorry, I don't speak the language, so I don't know if
it's
> a magazine or a newspaper, I'd guess magazine from the name) in
Brazil
> are running a story about this this morning.
>
>
http://www.no.com.br/servlets/newstorm.notitia.apresentacao.ServletDeN
> oticia?codigoDaNoticia=21877&dataDoJornal=atual
>
> Saundra
261 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 3:27pm
Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dwivian" wrote:
> > Started moments ago:
> > http://msnbc.com/news/576899.asp?cp1=1
> > Saundra
>
> And, the headline got sent out on the MSNBC Pager network. My hip
> buzzed, and I was reading, AGAIN, about Kaycee. I'm going to have
to
> switch back to financial news only, I guess. *grin*
>
> So, this got spewed to the world in a big way.... when will CNN and
> FoxNews start rolling their trucks?
Without proof of fraud ... I suspect this is as big as it's going to
get. Salon is probably the only remaining sure write-up.
So, unless the local papers turn up stuff that Bob Skimitagain
didn't, a distinct possibility, we may be in the wind-down phase
already. (I was surprised that anybody BUT Salon was interested.)
262 From: "Eve"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 3:39pm
Subject: MSNBC Coverage angelwng@...
Send Email
The story is on the Technology cover now (I got a screen shot if
anyone wants it - it may disappear soon), in addition to the article.
There have been a handful of messages on their boards - this was my
reply to the "suckers who deserve what they got posts".
"We blame victims because it makes us feel safe - "I'm
too smart to be taken!" - yet, many of the people who
took "Kaycee's" story into their hearts, did
check things out to the best of their abilities.
"Con artists flourish when we blame the victims instead of
blaming who is actually at fault.
"Yes, of course, check things out! Remember though, people
are burned everyday - it runs the gamit from
relationships, resumes, product safety recalls,
"enhanced" research data, investments, all the
way to the Supreme court! Next time you waste money on a
shoddy product, ask yourself if you checked the company
thoroughly enough.
"We take risks when we care about others, but it's a risk
we need to be willing to take. Life is far richer, and
more of what we all want life to be about, when we care
and reach out to help."
I do believe that folks who were closest to "Kaycee"/Debbie did check
things out to their personal satisfaction - I mean, when you meet a
new person, do you do a background check? Yet, you hear stories
everyday about people marrying con-artists, etc.
There just aren't enough hours in the day to check out everything we
do to the nth degree - and even if we did that, we still couldn't
guarantee that we'd never get hurt.
Keep up the good work and keep the faith!
263 From: "Eve"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 3:41pm
Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage angelwng@...
Send Email
You never know with the media, though - remember "All your base are
belong to us" made the rounds! lol - guess it depends if it's a slow
news day. ;)
> Without proof of fraud ... I suspect this is as big as it's going
to
> get. Salon is probably the only remaining sure write-up.
>
> So, unless the local papers turn up stuff that Bob Skimitagain
> didn't, a distinct possibility, we may be in the wind-down phase
> already. (I was surprised that anybody BUT Salon was interested.)
264 From: chaotic_faith@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 3:51pm
Subject: Re: Copyright photo stuff chaotic_faith@...
Send Email
I'm new to the "Kaycee" stuff, only learning about her after it was
announced that she "died" so I didn't have the opportunity to read
anything that was written in her blogs -- aside from the google
cache's.
There is a question that hasn't been raised and I've been wondering
about it since it was announced how "Debbie" received the photos of
Julie.
"Debbie" followed Julie's basketball games... How many of the photos
were taken of Julie by Debbie at the games, with the intent of using
them for her "Kaycee" persona? What are the legal ramifications of
Debbie doing that?
Just a thought...
265 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:08pm
Subject: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee mail@...
Send Email
The Peabody Kansan reports on the hoax, with several quotes from
Debbie Swenson:
http://www.peabodykansas.com/21nichole.html
Front page of the site:
http://www.peabodykansas.com
266 From: khalloran1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: More legal references on libel khalloran1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."
wrote:
> >
> > I just told the world you died of cancer. Would that be
malicious to
> > you?
>
> If you did so with intent to harm me, and if it did indeed harm
me, then yes.
>
> But the mere fact of you making such a statement isn't legally
sufficient to prove libel. It's also necessary to demonstrate harm
and evil intent.
Debbie did not tell "the world" that Julie Fullbright died of
leukemia. Debbie used Julie's image (unwittingly it appears) to
create "Kaycee", and we know the rest. If not outright malice, it is
certainly dubious in intent. "Julie Fullbright is dead of cancer" at
least had the potential to have been a simple statement of fact, if
it were true.
267 From: "elizAbeth"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Heh.... amazingjettgrrrl@...
Send Email
My favorite line from the PeabodyKansan story referenced above:
"Working with former journalists and Internet experts nationwide, she
Saundra Mitchell began piecing together who Kaycee might be."
Sheesh, I didn't fancy myself either a former journalist OR an
internet expert....do any of you??
268 From: "elizAbeth"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee amazingjettgrrrl@...
Heh. My favorite line from the above-referenced article:
"Working with former journalists and Internet experts nationwide, she
Saundra Mitchell began piecing together who Kaycee might be."
I didn't fancy myself either a former journalist OR an internet
expert, did any of you think YOU were??
269 From: David Moisan
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:34pm
Subject: Re: Radio dmoisan@...
Send Email
At 02:10 PM 5/23/2001 -0000, you wrote:
>My brother just got up and he said "Did you hear that?" I
>said "what?" he said "Kaycee Nicole.." I said "On the radio?!
>What'd they say?" "Just that it's a hoax and people sent all kinds
>of stuff, yada yada.."
>
The afternoon Paul Harvey show gave this a mention, too.
Take care,
Dave
David Moisan, N1KGH ARES/SKYWARN dmoisan@...
Invisible Disability:
http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/invisible_disability.html
ATS-909 FAQ: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/faqs/sangean/ats909faq.html
270 From: "brooke"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:36pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee brooke@...
Send Email
debbie said: "I am a moral person," Swenson, 40, said Monday from her
home. "I lived with it every day, and felt guilty every day. It's
been a nightmare for the past week. I didn't know the reactions would
be so strong." ..
but the fucked up thing is that she *did* know.. she did know that
people would react strongly.. she read it everyday.. she read the
weblogs kept by so many people who gave a damn. she saw what randy
did, and what all the people on cc did.. she physically saw (by all
the things that showed up in her po box) the outpouring that came..
debbie is either really stupid, or in big time denial.
and if she felt so damn guilty, why did she keep this crap up? and if
she is such a moral person, why did she do it? why did she carry on
such a fraud? why did she lie to so many people?? thats a moral
person?? okay, she didn't murder anyone, she didn't rob from anyone,
but she hurt people.
271 From: adam@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee adam@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> The Peabody Kansan reports on the hoax, with several quotes from
> Debbie Swenson:
The most interesting thing to me is that this small town paper's
report is a magnitude better in terms of writing and accuracy than the
MSNBC story.
Adam
Kaycee Nicole FAQ
http://www.rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
272 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:58pm
Subject: About the Peabody Article saundra@...
Send Email
Hee hee, jeez, innacuracies abound. I just talked to Rick Hattersley.
He and the editor both worked on it- the quote attributed to me about
"really caring about Kaycee" was a mistake- I'd been talking about
other people really caring about Kaycee, and one of the writers on the
article wrote that paragraph from somewhat confusing notes. They'll be
fixing that in the online version, and printing a correction in the
print version.
Rick Hattersley would like everybody to read the article (no problem,
right?) He was hoping they might get a few hits. I warned him he might
get a few thousand.
Saundra
273 From: "r^2 : rich (dot) robinson"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: ruminations. rich@...
Jon Sullivan wrote:
> "Which was, again, some woman pretending to be a cancer patient to
> spread warmth and hope to a few hundred people."
>
> No. That's how smug come-latlies are spinning this. Here's what
> happened.
Smug come-latelies? SJC may not have followed Kaycee's blog, but he was
aware of all the going-ons, the implications, and so forth - as were
many of us. Some of us just don't understand the huge hype it took on,
or are questioning it in retrospect.
> Julie has her photo splashed all over the Internet by Debbie who is
> flirting with men/boys and sending them Julie's picture signed by
> Kaycee. Debbie's daughter has been taught that it's okay to pretend
> she has terminal cancer whenever anyone calls the house. The PO box
> in Peabody has been closed, but not before people all over the
> country sent gift certificates and care packages to it (none ever
> returned) thinking they would go to someone who had lost her hair
> from chemo. It's a real fucking laugh fest. Debbie is bragging about
> the jewelry she got.
Ok, granted that someone was used in this whole mess. And a bunch of
on-line bloggers and people who are open enough to care got duped. Yes,
there are obviously some childhood-raising issues. As for jewlery, I
haven't heard anyone say they sent jewlery - most likely it's a figment
of Debbie's imagination much like her new car. No one said it was a
laugh-fest, but it isn't Michael Milken bringing down the S&L industry
single-handedly, or Jeffrey Dahlmer murdering scores of people.
> Debbie can whine all she wants now. This was had zero good intent. It
> was crazy or it was malicious. It was never innocent.
Sure, it was crazy. Maybe malicious.. but I doubt Debbie had anything
against cancer sufferers.
> I don't see the witch hunt. I don't see the trampling horde. I see a
> pack of focused, concerned people following the right path.
The thing about this being a whole 'investigation' doesn't preclude the
idea that it was a trampling horde. Sure, it could have been a bunch of
concerned people. Most of them, however, I'd wager were pissed off at
being duped, or along for the ride because of the whole excitement of
being amature detectives. Maybe the outcome of revealing the hoax was
the right thing to do, but I don't think the whole mob mentality of
calling pastors, neighbors, and post offices in Kansas was the right
path. I don't think releasing Julie's name to the world when it was
pretty obvious she was an innocent in the whole thing was the right
path.
> I'm proud of you folks. And if you ever did this in a mob-like
> frenzy, and victimized innocent moms in Kansas I'd be the first to
> call you on it.
>
> We're okay here. And I think we're smart enough to know the
> difference.
Hey - if you need, or anyone else needs, the validation that you're
'okay here', fine. Sure, you didn't victimize Debbie in your frenzy,
but you managed to further victimize everyone she already had hurt. The
people in her small town, her children (who, yes, were participants and
initiators, but obviously lacking proper parental guidence), Julie and
her family, and the online people who have been run through the wringer
as hoaxters themselves to willing colaborators, to self-serving self
promoters.
People who were financially taken, yeah, they should have some
recourse. Although, as SJC said, I never understood the whole
unsolicited gift thing, anyway. But the life that this took on, and
continues to have, and the spin the media will put on it I think are all
out of porportion to what actually happened, and it could have been
handled in a wiser, more effective manner.
--
-r^2, 'magically delicious'
http://www.inferiority.com
rich@...
274 From: songsforsummer@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:00pm
Subject: something real, Halycon, etc songsforsummer@...
What a beautiful world we live in.
A friend alerted me about the hoax, metafilter.com and that someone
posted a link there to a site i helped create for my girlfriend,
Summer Brannin, who passed away from cancer in 1998 at the age of
21. How sad is it that the person who posted the link also had to
link to a page that verifies her onetime existence? I can't tell you
how much that creeped me out. It's nice that people might go check
out the site but it also makes me a lil' ill. I worried myself sick
about how people might perceive the See Summer Swing Dance site but
the response was always amazing. I don't even know what to say about
someone who would make up a story so close to what I saw happen to
such a wonderful person. I can't tell you how much good it did me to
have so many people visit the Summersite and get something positive
out of it. I got a lot from people's reactions which helped me
through an awful time. I guess Debbie got the same kind of "support"
but for what!? I just spent the last few hours learning about the
Kaycee phenomenon and I feel awful knowing how much time was spent on
a fabrication like this.
I was surprised to see an old friend of mine (John Halcyon) being in
the middle of this. He is one of the nicest, funniest, coolest folks
I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. My girlfriend thought he was
tops too and, like everyone else who knew her, he thought she was
great as well. He came to her Celebration of Life ceremony and
linked to the Summersite from many of his webpages. Oddly enough, I
came to John with several web questions, one time after the
Summersite was named the Cruel Site of the Day. In the middle of all
of the crazy, gross, fun stuff that ends up on that site, they
decided to link to something as heartfelt as SSSD. People accused
them of going soft. Funny enough, it's cruel.com's creator that just
put the link to the Summersite on metafilter and just mentioned the
site in a thread here on the yahoo group (Thanks Rogers, but did you
have to link to the death thing too? ugh). So it's no surprise that
John would've tried to help "Kaycee". To even suggest that he would
be part of a hoax like this is completely absurd. To say that he's
put some crazy stuff up on his websites would be an understatement
but the man's got a huge heart and more people should live life the
way he does.
I guess if you'd like to see how an online tribute can be POSITIVE, go
check out http://www.thesummersite.com . Please feel free to spread
it around. I created the site to show people how great Summer was
and every time someone goes and sees her art or reads stories about
her or sees what people have written in the site's guestbook, there's
no doubting what an amazing impact she made and continues to make on
the world.
Long live the gurl,
Adam
(Please feel free to post or forward this anywhere. Maybe some folks
can visit the Summersite and have SOME good come out of all of this.)
There's also a charity record you can get at most local and online
record stores that is a very real tribute to a very real person (plus
it's got real good music and benefits a real good cause, Free Arts
For Abused Children, http://freearts.org).
275 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:20pm
Subject: Paul Harvey saundra@...
Send Email
You can hear Paul Harvey's story on Kaycee Nicole if you go to
http://www.paulharvey.com/ and click on "This Morning" it's at 3.42
into the report. No mention of any of us, or the Internet, but says
that there is an investigation ongoing.
Saundra
276 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:44pm
Subject: Re: something real, Halycon, etc mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., songsforsummer@y... wrote:
> Funny enough, it's cruel.com's creator that just put the link to
> the Summersite on metafilter and just mentioned the site in a
> thread here on the yahoo group (Thanks Rogers, but did you
> have to link to the death thing too? ugh).
Sorry ... I wanted to introduce people to Summer's site without
inviting any speculation about whether she was a real person or not.
The SSDI database was the easiest way to prove it.
There is something unnerving about seeing loved ones in that database.
277 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:50pm
Subject: metafilter is gone matt@...
Send Email
In case anyone was wondering when metafilter is coming back online, it
won't be for a while.
The network host for Pyra's offices, FirstWorld/Sirius has cancelled the
connection. They're no longer in the business of selling T-1 lines. They
apparently emailed Ev to warn him last month this change would happen, but
since he never reads his damn mail he must have missed it.
ugh. (btw, that means no blogspot, newsblogger, megnut, evhead, onfocus
either, for a while)
So I guess I'll drag it home to my DSL line in my apartment, and it'll be
slow and assy until I find something better.
You can email me offlist if you have any ideas, basically, I need to host
my own server somewhere, I need someone with a fast line and space for my
box, and there isn't much for alternatives (mirroring is out of the
question, the site is too involved of a web application).
Matt
--
matt@...
278 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:55pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Matt, I'm sorry.
279 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:
> "I am a moral person," Swenson, 40, said Monday from her
> home.
I haven't heard a statement that convincing since "I never slept
with that woman" and "I am not a crook."
I figured that Hattersley's reference to a former reporter was to me,
since I mentioned it somewhere as we were digging up stuff about
Swenson. As for Internet experts being involved, at least one Human
Portal assisted in the investigation. Doesn't that count?
280 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Totally. We're not going to see a better on article on this thing, I
think.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., adam@r... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> > The Peabody Kansan reports on the hoax, with several quotes from
> > Debbie Swenson:
>
> The most interesting thing to me is that this small town paper's
> report is a magnitude better in terms of writing and accuracy than
the
> MSNBC story.
>
> Adam
>
> Kaycee Nicole FAQ
> http://www.rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
281 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:00pm
Subject: Metafilter Unreachable dhartung@...
Send Email
For those of you who don't know, Metafilter.com is presently
unreachable due to a router misconfiguration:
Tracing route to metafilter.com [207.44.174.249]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
snipped
14 167 ms 166 ms 163 ms border-sf-s8-0-0.sirius.com
[205.134.254.37]
15 162 ms 161 ms 161 ms bdr1.sntccaidc.firstworld.net
[205.134.254.38]
16 164 ms 163 ms 165 ms border-sf-s8-0-0.sirius.com
[205.134.254.37]
17 165 ms 165 ms 162 ms bdr1.sntccaidc.firstworld.net
[205.134.254.38]
It will continue like that until your browser times out. At any rate,
this is not a server problem, it's an ISP problem.
282 From: yahoo@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone yahoo@...
Send Email
Bummer Matt. Perhaps in a spirit of good faith, Debbie Swenson would
volunteer with her checkbook to get this corrected.
283 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Metafilter Unreachable dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., dhartung@s... wrote:
> For those of you who don't know, Metafilter.com is presently
> unreachable due to a router misconfiguration:
Whoops. I'm now caught up with all messages ... My bad.
284 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> In case anyone was wondering when metafilter is coming back online,
it
> won't be for a while.
>
> The network host for Pyra's offices, FirstWorld/Sirius has
cancelled the
> connection. They're no longer in the business of selling T-1 lines.
They
> apparently emailed Ev to warn him last month this change would
happen, but
> since he never reads his damn mail he must have missed it.
>
> ugh. (btw, that means no blogspot, newsblogger, megnut, evhead,
onfocus
> either, for a while)
>
> So I guess I'll drag it home to my DSL line in my apartment, and
it'll be
> slow and assy until I find something better.
>
> You can email me offlist if you have any ideas, basically, I need
to host
> my own server somewhere, I need someone with a fast line and space
for my
> box, and there isn't much for alternatives (mirroring is out of the
> question, the site is too involved of a web application).
>
> Matt
> --
> matt@h...
Can donations still be made at amazon? And how, if so? Seems like
they'd be more needed now than before.
285 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:12pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee sarapture@...
Send Email
Has it occurred to anybody besides me that now Debbie has the URL of
our little investigative club here? creepy.
insert twilight zone music
i'm not debbie. really.
286 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:11pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone saundra@...
Send Email
> Can donations still be made at amazon? And how, if so? Seems like
> they'd be more needed now than before.
I'm with Ray, I would be happy to donate to get MetaFilter back up and
running.
Saundra
287 From: saundra@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:13pm
Subject: South China Morning Post saundra@...
Send Email
The South China Morning Post's article is up at
http://technology.scmp.com/ZZZ71F5UTMC.html - however, you have to
register to read it. Very, very MeFi positive article, yay!!!
Saundra
288 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:14pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
>
> > Can donations still be made at amazon? And how, if so? Seems like
> > they'd be more needed now than before.
>
> I'm with Ray, I would be happy to donate to get MetaFilter back up
and
> running.
To donate to MetaFilter:
http://www.amazon.com/paypage/P1D8X7C3FS50E9
289 From: "Jess Cook"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: RE: Re: metafilter is gone jess@...
Send Email
Ditto, ditto, ditto. If there's anything the legion of MetaFaithful can do
to help, Matt, please just say the word.
Jess.
pocketgeek.com/pith/
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:11 AM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: metafilter is gone
> Can donations still be made at amazon? And how, if so? Seems like
> they'd be more needed now than before.
I'm with Ray, I would be happy to donate to get MetaFilter back up and
running.
290 From: eckeric@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:18pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone eckeric@...
Send Email
Wow Matt, that sucks. I am sorry you are stuck with that situation.
Good luck with finding a solution. I wish I could help.
291 From: "Adam"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:22pm
Subject: Re: something real, Halycon, etc adam@...
Send Email
> > Funny enough, it's cruel.com's creator that just put the link to
> > the Summersite on metafilter and just mentioned the site in a
> > thread here on the yahoo group (Thanks Rogers, but did you
> > have to link to the death thing too? ugh).
>
> Sorry ... I wanted to introduce people to Summer's site without
> inviting any speculation about whether she was a real person or
not.
> The SSDI database was the easiest way to prove it.
>
> There is something unnerving about seeing loved ones in that
database.
I know and that's part of the sad thing about all this. If there is
some cause worth getting behind, it'll be harder for people to
believe after all of this. It's bad enough when people who are new
to the internet start getting e-mail hoax stuff and forwarding it,
only to have people who have seen it a million times flame them for
not knowing any better. Now some people are going to visit the
Summersite and doubt that Summer really existed. Imaginary until
proven real? That is really scary and sad.
Now that i think about it, most of the artists that are on the
charity record we did never met Summer (though even some of the more
famous ones like Ben Folds Five actually did). As huge as the Kaycee
thing got, could you imagine if it had received attention outside of
the internet community? You have to wonder if Debbie worried that it
would get that big and she'd be found out. Scary.
So, thanks again for letting people know about the site, Rogers.
(another) adam
292 From: Oliver Willis
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:23pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone owillis@...
Send Email
Couldn't you host it at something like Rackspace? I
think we've got enough members to contribute $10+ a
month to cover that....
--- Matthew Haughey wrote:
> In case anyone was wondering when metafilter is
> coming back online, it
> won't be for a while.
>
> The network host for Pyra's offices,
> FirstWorld/Sirius has cancelled the
> connection. They're no longer in the business of
> selling T-1 lines. They
> apparently emailed Ev to warn him last month this
> change would happen, but
> since he never reads his damn mail he must have
> missed it.
>
> ugh. (btw, that means no blogspot, newsblogger,
> megnut, evhead, onfocus
> either, for a while)
>
> So I guess I'll drag it home to my DSL line in my
> apartment, and it'll be
> slow and assy until I find something better.
>
> You can email me offlist if you have any ideas,
> basically, I need to host
> my own server somewhere, I need someone with a fast
> line and space for my
> box, and there isn't much for alternatives
> (mirroring is out of the
> question, the site is too involved of a web
> application).
>
> Matt
> --
> matt@...
>
>
>
=====
Oliver Willis
www.oliverwillis.com
owillis@...
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
293 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:31pm
Subject: Re: South China Morning Post -- this is fair use, right? captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
"The news of Kaycee's "death", provided by Ms Swenson, sparked
intense discussions on the MetaFilter community Weblog (at
www.metafilter.com). People described, on various sites, how Kaycee's
life could have been faked.
Suspicion was sparked by the fact that Debbie and the family wouldn't
give an address for condolence cards and that the funeral
arrangements seemed rushed. The P.O. box provided no longer accepted
mail, according to a FAQ (frequently asked questions) on the matter
linked to MetaFilter. (http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26)
On the MetaFilter site, people realised that no one had ever met
Kaycee in real life, and searches failed to turn up someone with her
name in Kansas or Oklahoma, her previous home. However, information
about a Debbie Swenson and her daughter Kelli turned up on the Web
and the similarities between the two sets of individuals were
striking, according to the FAQ. "
294 From: "Lia Bulaong"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:36pm
Subject: motive me@...
From the SCMP article: "Mr van der Woning was grief-stricken by
the May 14th death of Kaycee, only days before he planned to fly
from Hong Kong to the United States to meet her."
Well, no wonder Debbie "killed" Kaycee. There's no way she
could've gotten Julie to pretend to be Kaycee, and because she
used Julie's photos, no-one else could've pulled it off. I feel so bad
for BWG.
Lia
http://cheesedip.com
295 From: "christine"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:37pm
Subject: Re: South China Morning Post - User/Pass phooeygirl@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
>
> The South China Morning Post's article is up at
> http://technology.scmp.com/ZZZ71F5UTMC.html - however, you have to
> register to read it. Very, very MeFi positive article, yay!!!
>
> Saundra
username: metafilter
password: filter
296 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee sdenbes1@...
Send Email
> and if she felt so damn guilty, why did she keep this crap up? and if
> she is such a moral person, why did she do it? why did she carry on
> such a fraud? why did she lie to so many people?? thats a moral
> person?? okay, she didn't murder anyone, she didn't rob from anyone,
> but she hurt people.
I really think that this is a case of something small which grew and got out of hand. Once you've gotten hold of the tail of the tiger, all you can do is just hang on.
I think that at the beginning she didn't realize how much reaction there would be. Once there was a lot, there was no longer any clean way to get out from under. But the reckoning could be postponed, for a while, and I think that is what she has been doing for the last few months.
297 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:46pm
Subject: Re: motive captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Oh my. That ticket couldn't have been cheap.
They were talking about meeting for a long time. Here's an entry
from the Living Color blog.
Saturday, October 07, 2000
awww... I love Randy!! /pounce
And my trip to Hong Kong is gonna be just like that... but better!!!
I'm sending Mabel and Randy my love!
10/7/2000 11:08:51 AM | ° i am the warrior °
I never saw another mention of any trips, but I could've missed
something. Someone also said "KayCee" had a lot of "boyfriends" on
CC and would break up with them when the got close to meeting.
I am totally a gawker. I can't look away.
I'm so sorry for everybody involved with this. Good god.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Lia Bulaong" wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> From the SCMP article: "Mr van der Woning was grief-stricken by
> the May 14th death of Kaycee, only days before he planned to fly
> from Hong Kong to the United States to meet her."
> Well, no wonder Debbie "killed" Kaycee. There's no way she
> could've gotten Julie to pretend to be Kaycee, and because she
> used Julie's photos, no-one else could've pulled it off. I feel so
bad
> for BWG.
> Lia
> http://cheesedip.com
298 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:54pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:
> > "I am a moral person," Swenson, 40, said Monday from her
> > home.
>
> I haven't heard a statement that convincing since "I never slept
> with that woman" and "I am not a crook."
>
> I figured that Hattersley's reference to a former reporter was to me,
> since I mentioned it somewhere as we were digging up stuff about
> Swenson. As for Internet experts being involved, at least one Human
> Portal assisted in the investigation. Doesn't that count?
I think by the standards of normal humans who read newspapers, most of us ARE internet experts. I, myself, have been a software engineer for 25 years, and I worked for a while at BBN on the Arpanet. All of us are very familiar with search engines. The things we take for granted as usual skills really are more rare than you might think.
Most of you know what a DNS is, and how routers work (at least conceptually) and thus how your traffic goes from HERE to THERE; to the majority of users of the web, it's just magic (in the Clarkian sense). We also have a nontrivial number of people who are facile in the use of graphics editors and can recognize when a picture has been modified. We had people looking at the headers and HTTP encoding of files, looking for common coding styles and trying to deduce common use of tools.
A lot of this really was quite technically sophisticated work. Don't sell yourselves short.
299 From: chaotic_faith@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone chaotic_faith@...
Send Email
I'd be more than happy to make a donation. I'm not a "member" of
metafilter yet... only learning about it once the hoax broke, and
spent hours reading the messages there.
I went to the link that was listed... is it payment by credit card
only? Is there a paypal account set up or can I pay via my paypal
account instead? Please let me know.
~faith
300 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:03pm
Subject: Re: South China Morning Post - User/Pass sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> >
> > The South China Morning Post's article is up at
> > http://technology.scmp.com/ZZZ71F5UTMC.html - however, you have to
> > register to read it. Very, very MeFi positive article, yay!!!
> >
> > Saundra
>
> username: metafilter
> password: filter
OK, I'll give BWG points for going to the SCMP himself. And this does answer one of my remaining questions: why did Kaycee die? His planned trip to visit her definitely brought things to a head.
301 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:02pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone sarapture@...
Send Email
But wait, how do we know that Metafilter is REALLY dead?
j/k couldn't resist...
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> >
> > > Can donations still be made at amazon? And how, if so? Seems like
> > > they'd be more needed now than before.
> >
> > I'm with Ray, I would be happy to donate to get MetaFilter back up
> and
> > running.
>
> To donate to MetaFilter:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/paypage/P1D8X7C3FS50E9
302 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> Has it occurred to anybody besides me that now Debbie has the URL of
> our little investigative club here? creepy.
>
> insert twilight zone music
>
> i'm not debbie. really.
Debbie's almost certainly known about us all along. We were linked from BWG's site last Sunday when the first partial confessions were published, including links to MeFi. There were MeFi links to the Yahoo group long before it went down. If she's been following it closely, there's no chance she wouldn't know about this group here.
Anyway, I can't see that it would make any difference. It's just one more raindrop in the storm of protest on the web.
303 From: truesolace00@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee truesolace00@...
Send Email
If she was moral then why she kept a charade of this magnitude going
on for almost two years??? A *TRUE* mother would have nipped it in
the bud--I know that I would if my child created a false persona on
the web.
Kanika
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> > --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:
> > > "I am a moral person," Swenson, 40, said Monday from her
> > > home.
> >
> > I haven't heard a statement that convincing since "I never slept
> > with that woman" and "I am not a crook."
> >
> > I figured that Hattersley's reference to a former reporter was to
me,
> > since I mentioned it somewhere as we were digging up stuff about
> > Swenson. As for Internet experts being involved, at least one
Human
> > Portal assisted in the investigation. Doesn't that count?
>
> I think by the standards of normal humans who read newspapers, most
of us ARE internet experts. I, myself, have been a software engineer
for 25 years, and I worked for a while at BBN on the Arpanet. All of
us are very familiar with search engines. The things we take for
granted as usual skills really are more rare than you might think.
>
> Most of you know what a DNS is, and how routers work (at least
conceptually) and thus how your traffic goes from HERE to THERE; to
the majority of users of the web, it's just magic (in the Clarkian
sense). We also have a nontrivial number of people who are facile in
the use of graphics editors and can recognize when a picture has been
modified. We had people looking at the headers and HTTP encoding of
files, looking for common coding styles and trying to deduce common
use of tools.
>
> A lot of this really was quite technically sophisticated work.
Don't sell yourselves short.
304 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: metafilter is gone matt@...
Send Email
On 06:55 PM 5/23/2001 +0000, chaotic_faith@... wrote:
>I'd be more than happy to make a donation.
I'm trying to sort out a variety of free/low-cost options right now that
people have been nice enough to offer, so hold off on the donations until I
get a new long-term arrangement (if it's not free, I'll let people chip in).
Matt
305 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:49pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> On 06:55 PM 5/23/2001 +0000, chaotic_faith@y... wrote:
> >I'd be more than happy to make a donation.
>
> I'm trying to sort out a variety of free/low-cost options right now
that
> people have been nice enough to offer, so hold off on the donations
until I
> get a new long-term arrangement (if it's not free, I'll let people
chip in).
>
> Matt
Oh well. it's sorta like tipping a waitress who acts way to modest,
then? Sorry, we have that socially reinforced way of thinking, a fee
for services rendered thing. The whole metafilter thing, and this
case in particular, has been very highly educational, informative and
grandly entertaining. Feels like a getting-money-from-your parents
thing going on sorta reaction here. "Matt, take the cash." "No, I
don't need it, it's OK." "Damn it, buy yourself a coke or
something." "No, no . . . " "God *&#@(@, I'm giving you this, now let
me do it." Etc., etc.
Just saw part of the stupid movie "Galaxy Quest" on HBO at lunch, by
the way, about a "Star Trek" like cast which gets taken into space by
aliens who've watched the show from beyond and think it's an earthly
historical document. Shatner-like character has to inform the aliens
at the conclusion that the show's all a lie, and the lead alien is
broken-hearted.
Favorite dumb line, from the Shatner-like character: "Come on, it's
TV. You have TV on your planet, don't you? You've seen our other
shows. You don't think 'Gilligan's Island' is real, do you?"
Lead alien responds, "Oh, those . . . poor . . . people."
306 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 7:51pm
Subject: Re: South China Morning Post dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> The South China Morning Post's article is up at
> http://technology.scmp.com/ZZZ71F5UTMC.html - however, you have to
> register to read it. Very, very MeFi positive article, yay!!!
Yeah, the only one to get it, too. Plus, I *think* that's me in the
last paragraph (an "online chronicler" who posted three other hoax
incidences ... I know other people brought up others, but I think I
was the only one to list that many at once). Everlasting fame is
mine! :-S
307 From: "Paul Waldron"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:12pm
Subject: Full International Coverage (????) dbapaul@...
Send Email
If you're really interested (and can think in convoluted circles) the
full babelfish translation is:
It says an old one dictated of the network, in the Internet nobody
knows if you it is a dog. This week, a trot that goes to enter for
the history of web proved this exactly. Nicole is about the life of
Kaycee Swensen, a girl of 19 years, college student, who assembled
its site between 1997 and 98. He suffered from leukemia and he wrote,
online, a daily one. In the network, Kaycee made friends, changed
emails frequent with much people, gained affection, gifts, probably
money and died in the fight against the cancer has one week. In this
period, it even obtained to be cited in the " New York Times ". Only
that Kaycee never existed. " As many, I have the same questions. With
who I beat papo in one chat? Of who age the letter in the letter that
I received " The quotations marks belong to the Randall van to give
Woning, an American who lives in Hong Kong and that of one year for
he yielded space in its supplier to the page of the girl here. In the
sunday, a called woman Debbie Swensen, who until then said mother of
Kaycee, talked with it to the telephone. It explained that the
messages and the daily one were the history of three patients of
cancer that knows and asked for excuses for having been deceptive it.
Randall bought history and she published it. " I pardon it. " The
explanation after came days the death official notice. The fact of
the used post-office box for the girl to have been cancelled and of
the family to have if refused to divulge where it would be the burial
despertou suspicion. Several of its friends online had fallen then in
the network to search more information, to check given. They had
discovered the following one: 1. Between 97 and 98 a ginasial
student, Kelli Swensen, invented with friends an imaginary girl, "
Kaycee Nicole ", and for it they had constructed a site. To portray
it, they had used photos of another girl, Julie Fullbright, player of
basquete, star of a college of according to degree of its
cidadezinha, in Oklahoma, that never had nothing to see with this. 2.
The mother of Kelli, Debbie, discovered history and decided to
develop it, assuming persona. She made of Kaycee a leukemia patient
and started to count to a life of suffering and sapiência. When a
journalist of the " New York Times " looked for telephone, gave it to
the young woman its last name. Kaycee turned its son. 3. History
assumes a gigantic ratio when " Kaycee " knows van to give to Woning
online. Owner of a site very visited, it opens the gates so that he
divulges its history. It is when its index of popularity in the
network grows much that Debbie decides " to kill it ". Then it raised
suspicion. In the truth, already it had people suspecting before. It
is the case, for example, of Kristin Thomas, writer whom a personal
site in the network keeps. " Age the type of thing that my husband
flame of Illness of Pretty People? it knows as it is, when contract a
mortal illness that makes more of prettier them and, calm and wise
until, suddenly, they die a death without pain. We very see of this
in films and novels. For a time I was been silent, therefore Kaycee
had so burning hot fans that nobody wanted to hear nothing critical
minimamente its respect. " Who killed history all, however, was a
police reporter. I resell each one of the texts signed for the girl
and for its mother, binding for local periodicals of the city where
it said to live, speaking with the policy and the medical
presumptions, it traced pass-the-I pass that boot until Randall van
to give Woning as suspicious of the intrigue, the first citizen of "
good faith " to be been deceptive. For Dave Winer, one of the most
important commentators of the network, the history of Kaycee Nicole
goes to be remembered as it was " the war of the worlds " of Orson
Welles in the radio. It says an old one dictated of the network, in
the Internet nobody knows if you it is a dog. History, now, starts to
arrive in the press and the policy was involved. Much people ordered
gifts for Kaycee and, possibly, money to help in the hospital
expenditures. She is historical a typical one of the great network,
where the contact is absolutely human and personal? without that
human and personal contact is of necessary fact. It is alone to bind
the capacity to perceive, this engenhoca so in low in the times of
web.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."
wrote:
>
> Bah, it's portuguese. who cares.
> (I'm kidding of course.)
>
> Babelfish.altavista.com will give you a crappy translation.
>
> the first line comes out to this: "It says an old one dictated of
the
> network, in the Internet nobody knows if you it is a dog."
>
> I.e.; unreadable.
>
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., saundra@a... wrote:
> > No (and I'm sorry, I don't speak the language, so I don't know if
> it's
> > a magazine or a newspaper, I'd guess magazine from the name) in
> Brazil
> > are running a story about this this morning.
> >
> >
>
http://www.no.com.br/servlets/newstorm.notitia.apresentacao.ServletDeN
> > oticia?codigoDaNoticia=21877&dataDoJornal=atual
> >
> > Saundra
308 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Peabody's Paper Reports on Kaycee dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> > Has it occurred to anybody besides me that now Debbie has
> > the URL of our little investigative club here? creepy.
Sara, it's public ...
> Debbie's almost certainly known about us all along. We were
> linked from BWG's site last Sunday when the first partial
> confessions were published, including links to MeFi. There
> were MeFi links to the Yahoo group long before it went down.
> If she's been following it closely, there's no chance she
> wouldn't know about this group here.
Don't forget that she dissed the doubters back in September and
pointed to Metafilter. Still she courageously continued the lie for
another eight months! Such spunk!
She's also allegedly posted/posed as a supporter in previous threads.
One can speculate she did the same here, though most of those that I
recall are well known.
309 From: "Dwivian"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:44pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone dwivian@...
> But wait, how do we know that Metafilter is REALLY dead?
> j/k couldn't resist...
No reason to be nervous about your doubts -- I doubt that Metafilter
really existed in the first place. Besides, have you ever seen
Metafilter play basketball?
> > To donate to MetaFilter:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/paypage/P1D8X7C3FS50E9
-dwiv
310 From: memorable_for_you2001@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: How did you all find out about this......... memorable_for_you2001@...
Send Email
How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought our
weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
got home from school making comments about the same.
BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I work
in the community so know who she is just by being around.
This is all really freaky!
311 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:51pm
Subject: RE: How did you all find out about this......... tif@...
Send Email
Some people met her through some of her online organizations, such as http://www.collegeclub.com, others (like me) met her through her online journal. Some people got into this after the fact - from a site discussing if she was real or not (metafilter). I spoke with "Kaycee" a few times through instant messaging as well, and we shared a lot of mutual online friends.
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com [mailto:memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 3:46 PM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole How did you all find out about this.........
How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought our
weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
got home from school making comments about the same.
BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I work
in the community so know who she is just by being around.
This is all really freaky!
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
312 From: "Tara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:51pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... tara@...
Send Email
> How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
Are you asking about us individual individuals? Personally I found her
through the bwg's site - but I haven't the faintest idea how I found
the bwg's site. Probably by randomly surfing weblogs. I guess that
many people are more or less in the same situation.
Tara
Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...
Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org
Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net
313 From: jen.clifford@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 8:55pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone jen.clifford@...
Send Email
Just out of curiosity, was the connection through Area Systems? I
only ask because they emailed me a month ago saying they were going
away, with another announcement last night that the disconnection was
happening any moment. Seemed too much of a coincidence otherwise...
Jen
who stupidly hosted through csoft when they completely tanked with no
announcement and took rather a lot of people's money with them
314 From: Michelle KinseyClinton
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: metafilter is gone sapphir3blu3@...
Send Email
According to the Blogger site, it looks like it was
First World, at firstworld.com .
m
--- jen.clifford@... wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, was the connection through
> Area Systems?
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
315 From: commidd@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:03pm
Subject: MS NBC Coverage commidd@...
Send Email
Noticed that the story at MS NBC has been changed to include this:
"The alleged photographs of Kaycee turned out to be images of a
Swenson family friend who was a high school basketball star.
"The girl's mother, who ask that their names not be printed, told
MSNBC.com she had no idea her daughter's image was posted on the
Internet for the past year, that her visual identity had been stolen.
She only found out about the incident when Debbie called her Monday
night to apologize."
316 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:05pm
Subject: Re: metafilter is gone sarapture@...
Send Email
Come to think of it, has anybody ever seen Matt and Debbie Swenson in
the same room? Hmmmmm.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Dwivian" wrote:
> "Sara" wrote:
> > But wait, how do we know that Metafilter is REALLY dead?
> > j/k couldn't resist...
>
> No reason to be nervous about your doubts -- I doubt that Metafilter
> really existed in the first place. Besides, have you ever seen
> Metafilter play basketball?
>
> > > To donate to MetaFilter:
> > >
> > > http://www.amazon.com/paypage/P1D8X7C3FS50E9
>
> -dwiv
317 From: Peggy Butterworth
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:16pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... pbutterw@...
Send Email
I've been following the weblogs for months after finding bwg's site and
emailed my support and sympathy to Debbie. Looking back on it all, it
does seem pretty funny that I believed in the whole Kaycee construct. I
remember thinking at one point that she was just too much of a Pollyanna
and couldn't possibly be that perky under the circumstances. Then I
chided myself for being too cynical! Live and learn.
I imagine Debbie to be quite a wacko and I wonder if her neighbors ever
had a clue. Julie's mother hinted that she had her suspicions about
Debbie and her 'admiration' for Julie, but nothing else has been said.
As someone from the community, what do you know of the Swensons? How is
Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
Peggy
memorable_for_you2001@... wrote:
> How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought our
> weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
> got home from school making comments about the same.
>
> BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I work
> in the community so know who she is just by being around.
>
> This is all really freaky!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
318 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:13pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought
our
> weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
> got home from school making comments about the same.
>
> BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I
work
> in the community so know who she is just by being around.
>
> This is all really freaky!
For us, Kaycee was a presence online, whose location wasn't
originally known. (Everything online is within arm's reach.) We only
located your town after we started investigating. For you, it's
something local and immediate. For us, it's someplace "out there".
Her main site was actually hosted in (I believe) California, through
the good graces of someone in Hong Kong. I happen to be in San Diego,
and people involved in this are in Toronto, and San Francisco, and
Chicago, and all over the place. We've got some Brits in it, too.
This was really a global thing.
For you it's strange because she's just down the block. For us the
whole thing is electronic.
And you're not kidding about it being freaky. It was even more freaky
as it was unfolding and we kept discovering more and more.
319 From: "Louise Butler"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:13pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... lou@...
Send Email
> How is Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
Good question!!
I can't imagine what I'd be doing right now if I was Mr. Swenson.
320 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:15pm
Subject: Re: MS NBC Coverage sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., commidd@y... wrote:
> Noticed that the story at MS NBC has been changed to include this:
>
> "The alleged photographs of Kaycee turned out to be images of a
> Swenson family friend who was a high school basketball star.
>
> "The girl's mother, who ask that their names not be printed, told
> MSNBC.com she had no idea her daughter's image was posted on the
> Internet for the past year, that her visual identity had been
stolen.
> She only found out about the incident when Debbie called her Monday
> night to apologize."
I thought she found out yesterday morning when one of ours called
her. What the hell is going on here?
321 From:
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:17pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... jr@...
Send Email
Has anyone even heard anything on Mr. Swenson?
I've been following the weblogs for months after finding bwg's site and
emailed my support and sympathy to Debbie. Looking back on it all, it
does seem pretty funny that I believed in the whole Kaycee construct. I
remember thinking at one point that she was just too much of a Pollyanna
and couldn't possibly be that perky under the circumstances. Then I
chided myself for being too cynical! Live and learn.
I imagine Debbie to be quite a wacko and I wonder if her neighbors ever
had a clue. Julie's mother hinted that she had her suspicions about
Debbie and her 'admiration' for Julie, but nothing else has been said.
As someone from the community, what do you know of the Swensons? How is
Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
Peggy
memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought our
> weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
> got home from school making comments about the same.
>
> BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I work
> in the community so know who she is just by being around.
>
> This is all really freaky!
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
322 From: memorable_for_you2001@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:17pm
Subject: What is a weblog?..... memorable_for_you2001@...
Send Email
I hadn't even heard the term until reading the article in the paper
today and I am on the internet all day.
It is freaky but I suppose also understandable that we hadn't heard
anything. I read where she used a PO box in Newton. That is a
community of 16,000 or more about 20 minutes from us. We wouldn't
hear anything about it there -- now if the PO Box had been here in
town (a town of about 1,400) we probably would have heard something.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> > How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> > Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought
> our
> > weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids
just
> > got home from school making comments about the same.
> >
> > BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I
> work
> > in the community so know who she is just by being around.
> >
> > This is all really freaky!
>
> For us, Kaycee was a presence online, whose location wasn't
> originally known. (Everything online is within arm's reach.) We
only
> located your town after we started investigating. For you, it's
> something local and immediate. For us, it's someplace "out there".
> Her main site was actually hosted in (I believe) California,
through
> the good graces of someone in Hong Kong. I happen to be in San
Diego,
> and people involved in this are in Toronto, and San Francisco, and
> Chicago, and all over the place. We've got some Brits in it, too.
> This was really a global thing.
>
> For you it's strange because she's just down the block. For us the
> whole thing is electronic.
>
> And you're not kidding about it being freaky. It was even more
freaky
> as it was unfolding and we kept discovering more and more.
323 From: "Tara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:18pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... tara@...
Send Email
>Has anyone even heard anything on Mr. Swenson?
apart from the fact there is a "Tom" on the swenson family site, nada.
T.
324 From: memorable_for_you2001@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:19pm
Subject: I have seen him at ballgames.... memorable_for_you2001@...
Send Email
but that is about it. Since basketball season is now over I haven't
seen in a few weeks.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., wrote:
> Has anyone even heard anything on Mr. Swenson?
>
>
> I've been following the weblogs for months after finding bwg's
site and
> emailed my support and sympathy to Debbie. Looking back on it
all, it
> does seem pretty funny that I believed in the whole Kaycee
construct. I
> remember thinking at one point that she was just too much of a
Pollyanna
> and couldn't possibly be that perky under the circumstances.
Then I
> chided myself for being too cynical! Live and learn.
>
> I imagine Debbie to be quite a wacko and I wonder if her
neighbors ever
> had a clue. Julie's mother hinted that she had her suspicions
about
> Debbie and her 'admiration' for Julie, but nothing else has been
said.
> As someone from the community, what do you know of the Swensons?
How is
> Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
>
> Peggy
>
> memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
>
> > How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am
from
> > Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we
bought our
> > weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids
just
> > got home from school making comments about the same.
> >
> > BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am --
I work
> > in the community so know who she is just by being around.
> >
> > This is all really freaky!
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
325 From: "Laurie"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:20pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... wallflower67@...
Send Email
I linked to "Kaycee"'s weblog through a cancer support group, and then
Debbie's weblog through Kaycee's. I read them both off and on for
about 8 months. I WAS a bit suspicious at the end, and went to
CollegeClub.com to see if I could find any real history of her there.
When I discovered how much of a presence she had been there, and the
Tazwoman, kutebabe, and Debbie web pages with pictures, I figured no
one would go to that much trouble for that long to create a false
personna. I've tweaked a few details in my online profiles myself
over the years, and after a while, it takes real effort to be, well,
fake. And that's just minor stuff like location and looks.
I can see how if Debbie was really just trying to tell a story, it
could have gotten out of control. I can see why Kelli put up Julie's
pics to impress guys. But Debbie went out on a psych limb when she
created her web page dedicated to Kaycee, with baby pics on up
through high school dances. THAT is pretty creepy.
I wonder if anyone has an idea as to when Kelli stopped playing the
role and Debbie picked it up. Obviously, before the leukemia hit, but
I suppose we'll never know.
Laurie
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought
our
> weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids just
> got home from school making comments about the same.
>
> BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I
work
> in the community so know who she is just by being around.
>
> This is all really freaky!
326 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:23pm
Subject: RE: What is a weblog?..... tif@...
Send Email
A weblog is basically an online journal. My Intellectual Suicide site is my "blog".
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com [mailto:memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:18 PM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole What is a weblog?.....
I hadn't even heard the term until reading the article in the paper
today and I am on the internet all day.
It is freaky but I suppose also understandable that we hadn't heard
anything. I read where she used a PO box in Newton. That is a
community of 16,000 or more about 20 minutes from us. We wouldn't
hear anything about it there -- now if the PO Box had been here in
town (a town of about 1,400) we probably would have heard something.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> > How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> > Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought
> our
> > weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids
just
> > got home from school making comments about the same.
> >
> > BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I
> work
> > in the community so know who she is just by being around.
> >
> > This is all really freaky!
>
> For us, Kaycee was a presence online, whose location wasn't
> originally known. (Everything online is within arm's reach.) We
only
> located your town after we started investigating. For you, it's
> something local and immediate. For us, it's someplace "out there".
> Her main site was actually hosted in (I believe) California,
through
> the good graces of someone in Hong Kong. I happen to be in San
Diego,
> and people involved in this are in Toronto, and San Francisco, and
> Chicago, and all over the place. We've got some Brits in it, too.
> This was really a global thing.
>
> For you it's strange because she's just down the block. For us the
> whole thing is electronic.
>
> And you're not kidding about it being freaky. It was even more
freaky
> as it was unfolding and we kept discovering more and more.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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327 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:25pm
Subject: RE: What is a weblog?..... tif@...
There's a group of us in a chat room, discussing this. You are welcome to join us (we'll walk you through getting there!)
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com [mailto:memorable_for_you2001@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:18 PM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole What is a weblog?.....
I hadn't even heard the term until reading the article in the paper
today and I am on the internet all day.
It is freaky but I suppose also understandable that we hadn't heard
anything. I read where she used a PO box in Newton. That is a
community of 16,000 or more about 20 minutes from us. We wouldn't
hear anything about it there -- now if the PO Box had been here in
town (a town of about 1,400) we probably would have heard something.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> > How did you find out about Kaycee in the first place? I am from
> > Peabody and didn't know a thing about any of this until we bought
> our
> > weekly paper this morning. This is quite the story -- my kids
just
> > got home from school making comments about the same.
> >
> > BTW, I am not Debbie nor would Debbie have a clue who I am -- I
> work
> > in the community so know who she is just by being around.
> >
> > This is all really freaky!
>
> For us, Kaycee was a presence online, whose location wasn't
> originally known. (Everything online is within arm's reach.) We
only
> located your town after we started investigating. For you, it's
> something local and immediate. For us, it's someplace "out there".
> Her main site was actually hosted in (I believe) California,
through
> the good graces of someone in Hong Kong. I happen to be in San
Diego,
> and people involved in this are in Toronto, and San Francisco, and
> Chicago, and all over the place. We've got some Brits in it, too.
> This was really a global thing.
>
> For you it's strange because she's just down the block. For us the
> whole thing is electronic.
>
> And you're not kidding about it being freaky. It was even more
freaky
> as it was unfolding and we kept discovering more and more.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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328 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:32pm
Subject: msnbc quotes centrsgrrl@...
Send Email
they didn't discover julie's identity until tuesday morning like at
3:00 am cst. the article is totally wrong. we think we know why
though. denise@...
329 From: "halcyon"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 9:55pm
Subject: my feelings halcyon@...
Send Email
I just sent this out to my email list. Figured some people here
might care, too.
****
Part of me feels like I should apologize. I introduced MANY people to
her and her story. I knew Kaycee for 2 years. I was inspired by her.
I loved her. I wanted to share what she brought into my life.
It turns out that Kaycee was not a real person. Apparently she was
the construct of Debbie Swenson, who had said she was Kaycee's
mom.
As the hoax unfolded, some people suspected that I was involved.
(Thank you to everyone who defended me.)
A few others simply felt I was a "compassion Nazi." Or that
I was exploiting Kaycee to intentionally pull at people's
heartstrings
or further my church of optimism. *sigh* I'm bothered that
spreading optimism is even considered a bad thing.
Most people understood that I was simply fooled.
If you believed because you trusted my judgment, I'm sorry I led
you wrong.
But I should warn you: I may do it again.
I'm try to be a compassionate person. I work very hard at
increasing the amount of love I project to the world and its
inhabitants. I intentionally strip down my defenses. I try to
embrace my vulnerability. I have a long way to go, but this is part
of my personal journey.
THE UPSIDE: I am gaining a greater and greater feeling of
connectedness to people. My relationships with loved ones,
strangers, and my environment are more intense and rewarding, the
more vulnerability I achieve.
THE DOWNSIDE: I'm easily taken advantage of.
As it is VERY clear right now: Being taken advantage of stings. And
it can make you feel foolish. But in my eyes, it would be far more
foolish to stay guarded and not experience the joy of connecting with
people.
Some people are using this experience as a reason to not get close to
people you haven't met in the flesh. I disagree whole-heartedly
with that conclusion. Being human can be painful. We get burned in
real life, too. The internet element simply adds a few more tools
for the dishonest.
I've been online for years. In that time I have met thousands of
amazing people. My life has been enriched immeasurably by the love
I've exchanged in this digital realm. In that context, the price of
one hoax doesn't seem that bad.
Does it hurt? Of course!! but I would gladly take this sting in
exchange for all the goodness I've received from keeping my heart
open.
*****
So, yes, I AM HURTING.
Ol' Mr. Compassion is having a hard time just "shaking this
off."
Kaycee was not a piece of writing that I thought was true and then
learned was false. This was a person who developed a friendship with
me over a period of YEARS. They sent me presents on my birthday.
Left me sob-filled voicemails. Sent photographs of themselves.
So even though I am spared the grieving of a little girl's death,
I am still grieving the death of *something*. It's disorienting.
Sometimes I even feel a sense of vertigo.
*****
It's interesting, I was wounded twice on Sunday. First by the
news
of deceit in my life. Secondly when I chose to have my left nipple
pierced. I was planning on doing the piercing for my 30th bday, but
the events of the hoax made my desire for a dramatic life experience
more urgent.
The symbolism of the piercing took a direction I didn't expect.
The
piercing has been slow to heal. Each day I think it's better, and
each day I see blood from the still-fresh wound. It aches almost
constantly.
But both wounds *will* heal.
*****
Radio show today at 5 pacific: I'll be talking about all this.
Feel free to call in with your perspectives, or with questions for me
about it.
:::::: http://www.citizenx.com/lounge/lounge.asp?id=18
and a HugNation group hug afterwards at 6pm.
Recent writings of mine about this:
::::: http://cockywrds.diaryland.com/010519_86.html - my suspicion
::::: http://cockywrds.diaryland.com/010520_63.html - it is a hoax
Interview with me about this:
:::::
http://netconference.about.com/internet/netconference/library/weekly/a
a052201c.htm
the Kaycee FAQ
::::: http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
I just need a little time to work through my feelings and get my
bearings again.
Thanks for all the love. I can feel it working.
-John
styn.net
330 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:06pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... sarapture@...
Send Email
Think about it though...He must have known...What if someone called and
asked for "Kaycee" and he answered the phone?
For those of you who actually spoke to "Kaycee" and Debbie, what was
the usual protocal for reaching her on the phone? Did you ever call her
at the "hospital"? Do you think that Kaycee and Debbie were the same
person?
Wow, this is complicated...How did she ever pull this off?
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Louise Butler" wrote:
> > How is Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
>
> Good question!!
>
> I can't imagine what I'd be doing right now if I was Mr. Swenson.
331 From: "Sara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:06pm
Subject: Re: How did you all find out about this......... sarapture@...
Send Email
Think about it though...He must have known...What if someone called and
asked for "Kaycee" and he answered the phone?
For those of you who actually spoke to "Kaycee" and Debbie, what was
the usual protocal for reaching her on the phone? Did you ever call her
at the "hospital"? Do you think that Kaycee and Debbie were the same
person?
Wow, this is complicated...How did she ever pull this off?
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Louise Butler" wrote:
> > How is Mr. Swenson taking all of this?
>
> Good question!!
>
> I can't imagine what I'd be doing right now if I was Mr. Swenson.
332 From: "Jon Sullivan"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:18pm
Subject: Re: What is a weblog?..... jon@...
Send Email
It means different things depending on your audience. For most of the
people I know it means a daily list of interesting links with
commentary.
So for me a "weblog" is a bit different than a Web journal or web
diary.
So Kaycee had a "web journal", but camworld.com is more of a
traditional "weblog." Weblogs are sometimes called "blogs."
Most "web logger" sites, including mine, are some combination of
journal and log.
Jon Sullivan
www.jonsullivan.com
333 From: memorable_for_you2001@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:22pm
Subject: Re: What is a weblog?..... memorable_for_you2001@...
Send Email
Thanks for all the explanations -- I guess I haven't been surfing in
all the right places.
334 From: dhartung@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:41pm
Subject: Re: What is a weblog?..... dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> I hadn't even heard the term until reading the article in the paper
> today and I am on the internet all day.
They're new and old. Basically a homepage with links or comments,
updated daily. They're as old as the web, really, but new tools (like
Blogger.com) let you make and update one very easily, so now there
are tens of thousands of them.
It's not like a group chatroom or mailing list (like this place),
because it's your own space and you can take as much space as you
like to discuss a topic or get as personal and "off-topic" as you
like.
Generally you find one iether by interacting with people in a place
like this, or through a link in another person's weblog. Some people
visit the same weblogs every day.
The Kaycee weblog was mostly found by "Kaycee" posting in boards like
CitizenX.com, or through recommendations from other weblogs such as
Halcyon's Cockybastard.org. Halcyon is very popular and knows a lot
of people, so that helped "Kaycee" get well known very quickly. When
people had doubts, there were unimpeachable people like Halcyon to
say that "Kaycee" was real, even though all the evidence that most of
us had was her weblog.
335 From: wickedstormy@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:42pm
Subject: Re: my feelings wickedstormy@...
Send Email
I can't keep silent anymore, either. I guess a lot of people feel
that way. I met KC, from CitizenX. But Hal, I have never faulted nor
suspected you in any of this. I feel the weight of anguish you and
BWG must be going through. It's a horried, dripping feeling. I hate
it. I hate it happened to such good, caring, talented people. But
then, in a way it happened to all of us that took the time to care.
To read, listen, to love.
You are right, John. WE can't stop being vulnerable. If we do, we
lose out on life's sometimes, overwhelming sting. But that sting is a
teacher, both good and bad. And, wonderful. I just wanted you to
know, I feel it too.
{{{{Hal}}}}
{{{{BWG}}}}
-- Stormy
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "halcyon" wrote:
> I just sent this out to my email list. Figured some people here
> might care, too.
> ****
>
>
> Part of me feels like I should apologize. I introduced MANY people
to
> her and her story. I knew Kaycee for 2 years. I was inspired by
her.
> I loved her. I wanted to share what she brought into my life.
>
> It turns out that Kaycee was not a real person. Apparently she was
> the construct of Debbie Swenson, who had said she was Kaycee's
> mom.
>
> As the hoax unfolded, some people suspected that I was involved.
> (Thank you to everyone who defended me.)
>
> A few others simply felt I was a "compassion Nazi." Or that
> I was exploiting Kaycee to intentionally pull at people's
> heartstrings
> or further my church of optimism. *sigh* I'm bothered that
> spreading optimism is even considered a bad thing.
>
> Most people understood that I was simply fooled.
>
> If you believed because you trusted my judgment, I'm sorry I led
> you wrong.
> But I should warn you: I may do it again.
>
> I'm try to be a compassionate person. I work very hard at
> increasing the amount of love I project to the world and its
> inhabitants. I intentionally strip down my defenses. I try to
> embrace my vulnerability. I have a long way to go, but this is
part
> of my personal journey.
>
> THE UPSIDE: I am gaining a greater and greater feeling of
> connectedness to people. My relationships with loved ones,
> strangers, and my environment are more intense and rewarding, the
> more vulnerability I achieve.
>
> THE DOWNSIDE: I'm easily taken advantage of.
>
> As it is VERY clear right now: Being taken advantage of stings.
And
> it can make you feel foolish. But in my eyes, it would be far
more
> foolish to stay guarded and not experience the joy of connecting
with
> people.
>
> Some people are using this experience as a reason to not get close
to
> people you haven't met in the flesh. I disagree whole-heartedly
> with that conclusion. Being human can be painful. We get burned
in
> real life, too. The internet element simply adds a few more tools
> for the dishonest.
> I've been online for years. In that time I have met thousands of
> amazing people. My life has been enriched immeasurably by the love
> I've exchanged in this digital realm. In that context, the price
of
> one hoax doesn't seem that bad.
> Does it hurt? Of course!! but I would gladly take this sting in
> exchange for all the goodness I've received from keeping my heart
> open.
>
> *****
>
> So, yes, I AM HURTING.
> Ol' Mr. Compassion is having a hard time just "shaking this
> off."
> Kaycee was not a piece of writing that I thought was true and then
> learned was false. This was a person who developed a friendship
with
> me over a period of YEARS. They sent me presents on my birthday.
> Left me sob-filled voicemails. Sent photographs of themselves.
>
> So even though I am spared the grieving of a little girl's death,
> I am still grieving the death of *something*. It's disorienting.
>
> Sometimes I even feel a sense of vertigo.
>
> *****
>
> It's interesting, I was wounded twice on Sunday. First by the
> news
> of deceit in my life. Secondly when I chose to have my left nipple
> pierced. I was planning on doing the piercing for my 30th bday,
but
> the events of the hoax made my desire for a dramatic life
experience
> more urgent.
>
> The symbolism of the piercing took a direction I didn't expect.
> The
> piercing has been slow to heal. Each day I think it's better, and
> each day I see blood from the still-fresh wound. It aches almost
> constantly.
>
> But both wounds *will* heal.
>
> *****
>
> Radio show today at 5 pacific: I'll be talking about all this.
> Feel free to call in with your perspectives, or with questions for
me
> about it.
> :::::: http://www.citizenx.com/lounge/lounge.asp?id=18
> and a HugNation group hug afterwards at 6pm.
>
> Recent writings of mine about this:
> ::::: http://cockywrds.diaryland.com/010519_86.html - my suspicion
> ::::: http://cockywrds.diaryland.com/010520_63.html - it is a hoax
>
> Interview with me about this:
> :::::
>
http://netconference.about.com/internet/netconference/library/weekly/a
> a052201c.htm
>
> the Kaycee FAQ
> ::::: http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
>
> I just need a little time to work through my feelings and get my
> bearings again.
> Thanks for all the love. I can feel it working.
> -John
> styn.net
336 From: "Lisa R"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:46pm
Subject: Paul Harvey on Kaycee voodoo@...
Send Email
If you want to hear the Paul Harvey show blip on Kaycee:
http://www.paulharvey.com/home.shtml
Click on "today's noon news"
337 From: Ryan Kawailani Ozawa
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:48pm
Subject: RE: What is a weblog?..... ozawa@...
Send Email
On Wed, 23 May 2001, Tiffany Ring wrote:
> A weblog is basically an online journal. My Intellectual Suicide site
> is my "blog".
Actually, weblogs or 'blogs were initially nothing of the sort, but
since the 'journal/diary' use of the format is damn near the majority
now, most folks use the terms interchangably.
http://www.diarist.net/guide/blogjournal.shtml
http://www.chymes.org/hyper/weblogs.htmlp
To build on what Jon Sullivan posted, to some folks (like me) the
distinction is significant - insofar as online diaries were a building
genre years before 'blogs surfaced - but they _exploded_, and as far as
I'm concerned, more of that kind of personal storytelling is (usually,
ahem) a good thing - no matter what you call it.
--
Ryan Kawailani Ozawa
In Medias Res - We now join an island life, already in progress.
imr@... | http://www.lightfantastic.org/imr/
338 From: "Eve"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 10:52pm
Subject: Debbie called Julie's Mom? angelwng@...
Send Email
I'm rather stunned and not just a little curious about that.
339 From: Oliver Willis
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:04pm
Subject: RE: What is a weblog?..... owillis@...
Send Email
Then for some folks like me, I see my blog as sort of
an "opinion column" where I spout off on issues (often
political) I care about.
--- Ryan Kawailani Ozawa wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2001, Tiffany Ring wrote:
> > A weblog is basically an online journal. My
> Intellectual Suicide site
> > is my "blog".
=====
Oliver Willis
www.oliverwillis.com
owillis@...
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
340 From: eckeric@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:09pm
Subject: Re: What is a weblog?..... eckeric@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., memorable_for_you2001@y... wrote:
> I guess I haven't been surfing in all the right places.
I wouldn't say that. The internet is a big place, everyone finds
something different.
341 From: "Sara L. Olesen"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:10pm
Subject: Kansas TV station news story sara@...
--
Sara - Censored, but not silenced.
http://crunchblogger.tripod.com
342 From: Laura Stabler
Date: Thu May 24, 2001 2:09am
Subject: Re: Kansas TV station news story lstabler@...
Send Email
At 06:10 PM 5/23/01 -0500, you wrote:
>http://www.kwch.com/MGBGK4ZN3NC.html
<"I couldn't believe it," Julie said about the moment she learned her face
was used in the hoax. "It was shocking.">
The press have reached Julie, I see.
Laura (aka Elfgirl)
website: http://www.elfgirl.org/
blog: http://www.elfgirl.org/thorns/
343 From: acridrabbit@...
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:14pm
Subject: mirc acridrabbit@...
While I've been an internet user since 1996, I have never been an IRC
or mIRC user, and I'm finding it incredibly frustrating to try to
join you all in the mIRC chat. Since everyone's abandoned the Yahoo
chat, I'm feeling all bereft and lonesome.
I'd love to join the chat - is there anyone who'd be willing to pop
back onto the Yahoo chat and walk me through this? I'd be eternally
grateful. Please post here and let me know.
Sincerely, feeling like a dummy,
acrid
344 From: "Louise Butler"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:15pm
Subject: Re: Kansas TV station news story lou@...
"Kaycee Swenson's weblog -- an online journal -- was one of the most
popular.
In fact it developed a following so big the New York Times even mentioned it
in a story."
Thats untrue, right? She was mentioned in NYT regarding CollegeClub & dorm
life, yes?
345 From: "Tara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:15pm
Subject: Re: Kansas TV station news story tara@...
Send Email
first part of the article looks quite inaccurate to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sara L. Olesen
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:10 AM
Subject: kaycee-nicole Kansas TV station news story
> http://www.kwch.com/MGBGK4ZN3NC.html
> --
> Sara - Censored, but not silenced.
> http://crunchblogger.tripod.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
346 From: "Tara"
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:19pm
Subject: Re: mirc tara@...
Send Email
there's a bunch of people in there waiting for you ; )
Tara
Je réponds au mieux de mes connaissances...
Climb to the Stars! - http://climbtothestars.org
Pompeurs Associés - http://pompage.net
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:14 AM
Subject: kaycee-nicole mirc
> Hi everyone,
>
> While I've been an internet user since 1996, I have never been an
IRC
> or mIRC user, and I'm finding it incredibly frustrating to try to
> join you all in the mIRC chat. Since everyone's abandoned the Yahoo
> chat, I'm feeling all bereft and lonesome.
>
> I'd love to join the chat - is there anyone who'd be willing to pop
> back onto the Yahoo chat and walk me through this? I'd be eternally
> grateful. Please post here and let me know.
>
> Sincerely, feeling like a dummy,
> acrid
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
347 From:
Date: Wed May 23, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: Kansas TV station news story jr@...