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1 From: dhartung@...
Date: Mon May 21, 2001 11:43pm
Subject: Welcome, Background, and Introduction dhartung@...
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Once there was a girl named Kaycee Nicole.
She was nineteen and full of life, yet at the same time struggling
with leukemia. She had a weblog called Living Colours, that was seen
as inspiring or cloying by turns. She had friends throughout the web
community, starting with College Club and extending to Webby Award
winners. There were gift exchanges and phone calls. Then, alas, there
was a turn for the worse; one day in May, she was reported to have
died of an aneurysm.
That was when things really got bad. Some people had suspicions,
going back months, that they had been careful not to voice, since
everywhere there was nothing but praise for this brave young woman.
In the space of a few days, on weblogs and especially Metafilter,
those suspicions were aired, people began checking into things, and
it all fell apart: Debbie, who was claimed to be Kaycee Nicole's
mother, told the person hosting her weblog that she had not been
truthful and Kaycee did not exist -- that she was a composite, a
construct. Of her online friends, some believed they had known the
young woman personally for over two years. But it turned out that
nobody had ever actually met her, and the real world links amounted
to little more than a post office box in Newton, KS and an IP address
in nearby Peabody.
This confession seemd only to raise more questions than it answered.
If there were phone calls, who was on the line? If there were gifts
or money sent, where did it go? Metafilter readers were especially
keen to track down the truth behind the hoax, knowing some of the
people who were duped very well. Others arrived to join the fray.
Many people didn't get the news, which sprung up on a weekend, until
Monday -- and traffic quickly brought that server down.
This group is open for any discussion related to the Kaycee Nicole
situation, from personal experiences to outsider opinions. If people
want to continue the investigation to uncover the truth, they may do
so here. What went wrong? How can we avoid making the same mistakes
again, or is the relative anonymity of the net fated to give rise to
more and more hoaxers?
One last note. I'm starting this group to create a safety valve.
Metafilter was shuddering under the load of 300+ message threads,
reloaded for each preview and post, checked multiple times a day.
Metafilter is also very much in the public eye, and is probably the
wrong place for continued discussions. People are invited here so
that those with an interest have a place to post, and those without
an interest or a desire to move on may continue to use the resources
of a place like Metafilter without it crashing. I am much more in the
latter group. I will take applications for moderating this group, so
let me know.
2 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:28am
Subject: debbie sarapture@...
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I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her
to post some sort of explanation in here. That's the least she can do.
I am somewhat new to the whole Kaycee thing, unlike others who had
"known" her for months (years?) and I still was shocked and crushed
when I heard of the hoax. I can only imagine how those who spoke with
"her" regularly felt. I don't have any contact info for debbie, or I
would do this myself. I think it's important though for closure's sake
that she come in here and address everyone. Many, many people have been
hurt by her rouse.
Just my .02
ps did anyone else take not of the English spelling conventions in both
kaycee's and debbie's blogs? kinda odd for folks from the midwest,
dontcha think??
3 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:37am
Subject: Re: debbie phooeygirl@...
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> I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone)
> debbie and ask her
i think that phoning "debbie" would be a mistake at this point. if
she is indeed debbie swenson in peabody, kansas, then she has a
family we should consider. i'm guessing that her husband and
children had no idea this was going on and they're probably just
learning about it now. i think we should respect her family's
privacy for a time. i know that many people have emailed her wanting
answers, and as far as i know, no one has gotten a response.
christine
4 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:42am
Subject: Re: debbie matt@...
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On 12:28 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:
>I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her
>to post some sort of explanation in here.
Actually, I was worried about any sort of group coming together to exchange
stories about interactions or gifts they sent, because Debbie could very
well be here (you or I could be debbie).
This entire saga brings up the lack of authentication schemes on the web.
There is no way to prove anyone is anyone else, how the hell are we going
to let people vote for presidents on the web safely and free of fraud?
There's no authentication.
>That's the least she can do.
Actually, the least she could do is nothing, and continue duping people in
the future with new stories. I've run across a couple incredibly messed up
people in my life that lived in worlds so full of lies and deceit that it
was impossible to know from the outside what the real truth was about
anything. I think for someone screwed up enough to do this, they may not
even know what the truth is anymore.
Matt
5 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:43am
Subject: Bookmarks dhartung@...
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Wow! Less than an hour old and over 16 members!
Again, I'm disclaiming any real expertise in this situation. My
knowledge of Kaycee was limited to what got posted at Metafilter. But
I'm trying to pull together most of the relevant links from the
various Metafilter threads into the Bookmarks section here. If you're
coming from there, you've probably seen them before, but it's good to
have them all in one place.
If you know of any personal webpages that have commented on the
situation, *especially* first-hand accounts, those may be added as
well. Please try to add a summary note so we know where we're going
and why.
6 From: litlnemo@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 0:54am
Subject: Batten down the hatches! litlnemo@...
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7 new members to this list n the less than 5 minutes since I
joined. This is going to get busy.
This is fascinating, for someone like me who never heard of
Kaycee until the death notice on MeFi last week, to watch the way
all of this is happening. (Was it incredibly cynical of me to
immediately wonder if she was real, even then? A few of us had
been discussing false Net personas just the night before, and I
immediately wondered if Kaycee was an example.)
I think I'll just return to lurking now. This couldn't get much
stranger.
I wonder how many new members have joined while I was
writing this.
7 From: "Mark Bakalor"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:02am
Subject: Re: Bookmarks mark@...
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I'll add one of my pages to the list:
http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html
Mark Bakalor
8 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:09am
Subject: Re: Bookmarks phooeygirl@...
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i'm mirroring some of the sites on my server. only a few there so
far, but more to come.
http://www.strangecat.org/kaycee/
christine
9 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:16am
Subject: hey kids... centrsgrrl@...
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just wanted to let you know i'm here.
i tried to call the minister again to see if he found anything out.
no answer all day, though that's not unusual as clergy typically have
monday off.
i also tried to call debbie. there was no answer all day and the
phone has been busy all evening. either she's online, talking to
someone or has it off the hook.
i debated with myself and have come to the conclusion that i have no
problem with calling her. if this were someone i knew in real life
that had done something questionable and i thought could use some
help i'd approach them. why should this be any different?
-d.
http://www.centrs.com
10 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:23am
Subject: Proof That Debbie Swenson is Involved mail@...
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I keep reading that there's no proof Debbie Swenson is involved.
That's not the case. As I confirmed in a phone call Monday morning to
the post office in Newton, Kansas, the box used by Kaycee's Web site
was rented by Debbie Swenson of Peabody, Kansas.
Here's the address she used until closing the box in March:
Living Colours
P.O. Box 566
Newton, Kansas, U.S.A.
67114-0566
For those who don't know me, I was a newspaper reporter for more than
10 years at the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Because Debbie was doing
business on her Web site (selling T-shirts and coffee mugs) and the
P.O. box was the only thing offered as a business address, the post
office can release information about the renter if it chooses.
Also, I have heard from two people who spoke to "Kaycee" on the
phone. One -- who sent items to Kaycee -- sent me Debbie Swenson's
Peabody, Kansas, address before it was posted on MetaFilter, and the
other said that he was told their names were Debbie Swenson and
Kaycee Nicole Swenson.
11 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:24am
Subject: Re: hey kids... mail@...
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Glad you're here, Centrs. How did you find Troy Manley, the Swensons'
pastor in Oklahoma?
12 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:29am
Subject: Re: hey kids... phooeygirl@...
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im wondering where the pastors name was found, too. maybe by calling
411?
OT: rogers - i have a friend at the star telegram - bud kennedy, know
him?
13 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:32am
Subject: Re: hey kids... phooeygirl@...
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i found this info on the baptists churches near newton and peabody:
First Baptist Church
Sixth and Poplar, Newton - 316.283.3610
First Baptist Church of Peabody
Third and Vine, Peabody - 316.983.2879
First Baptist Church of Sedgwick
Lincoln and Fourth, Sedgwick - 316.772.5606
14 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:38am
Subject: pastor troy + Check Metafilter captcrackpipe@...
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Funny, I only have this stupid yahoo account so I could read
Cloudmaker updates. (Looks like that'll pay off with an advance
screening, too, woot!)
Pastor Troy's name was on a picture on the Swenson family page, along
with the name of the Church.
Crazy new theory metafilter update with a new person being called out:
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85741
15 From: "Eve"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:40am
Subject: Re: hey kids... angelwng@...
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The pastor's name is on the swenson home page - if you check Kelli
Swenson's N'Sync page, you'll also find a link to their church, with
a poem written by Debbie Swenson that looks very familier to one
on "Living Colours"
I don't have those url's handy, but if anyone wants them, I'll dig
them up.
Does anyone remember or have a copy of the picture that was posted on
Debbie's "Journey toward the rainbow" blog of herself, colorized
green and on a shamrock for St. Patrick's day? comparing that to the
Swenson's home page pic might be helpful.
16 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:41am
Subject: Re: hey kids... dhartung@...
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--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> How did you find Troy Manley, the Swensons'
> pastor in Oklahoma?
The Switchboard page has a picture of the First Baptist Church sign,
which prominently features Rev. Manley's name. Note that this is the
First Baptist Church in OKLAHOMA, where they were living at the time,
not the Peabody church.
17 From: ewwgene@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:45am
Subject: I was a long time reader. ewwgene@...
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I'd been reading Kaycee's blog for about a year and a half now. I
thought she was real. Lots of her posts brought tears to my eyes.
I have no problem with this being a hoax. It makes the whole shabang
a lot more interesting. I've been following all weekend, and was
constantly refreshing all morning- glad i skipped classes today.
Now that all this info is seeping in, i want the WHOLE story. i want
someone to record the phonecall to Debbie and post it on the web.
Scandals are always fasinating to me.
18 From: Rory Ewins
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:49am
Subject: Poem from KCsCoolMom rory@...
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:33aa01f810cd5721:home.collegeclub.com/Kutebabe/files/KCsCafe.txt+KCsCoolMom&hl=en
If we're looking for Debbie's (?) motivation, it's hard to go past
the last verse:
At Kaycee's Cafe; she knows the tale of every lonely tear,
And can unburden all the patrons of insecurities and fear.
From the table in the corner another customer departs,
Knowing how to mend the aching in their heart.
Sometimes it can be difficult to turn despairing thoughts to other things,
Until you order the "daily special", delivered by angelic wings.
Yes; Kaycee's Cafe, has the best to offer you
It is served up with a smile, without a doubt it's true,
Peer into the window of her heart, that's all you have to do.
('That's one Angel Wings for table 7!')
19 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:48am
Subject: Re: debbie sarapture@...
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You're right Matt. In my anger, that hadn't occurred to me...It's
probably best just to let sleeping dogs lie as it were. (no pun).
Sara
(I'm not Debbie. I swear.)
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> On 12:28 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:
> >I think someone should email (or, better yet, phone) debbie and ask her
> >to post some sort of explanation in here.
>
> Actually, I was worried about any sort of group coming together to exchange
> stories about interactions or gifts they sent, because Debbie could very
> well be here (you or I could be debbie).
>
> This entire saga brings up the lack of authentication schemes on the web.
> There is no way to prove anyone is anyone else, how the hell are we going
> to let people vote for presidents on the web safely and free of fraud?
>
> There's no authentication.
>
> >That's the least she can do.
>
> Actually, the least she could do is nothing, and continue duping people in
> the future with new stories. I've run across a couple incredibly messed up
> people in my life that lived in worlds so full of lies and deceit that it
> was impossible to know from the outside what the real truth was about
> anything. I think for someone screwed up enough to do this, they may not
> even know what the truth is anymore.
>
> Matt
20 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:55am
Subject: the pastor centrsgrrl@...
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i found the pastor from kelli's site. one page has a list of links at
the bottom, one being to gracemont baptist church. if you click
through that link a page last updated in 1998 shows a church
bulletin. debbie was the secretary at the church for 3 years. i
assume she was attempting to keep a weekly online church page. it had
the name of the pastor and the phone number to the church on it.
i called, he answered, sounded like he was in a hurry and mentioned
they were trying to get the power back on before evening services. he
asked me several times, "now WHO are you?" but eventually seemed to
get what was going on. he seemed really stunned and reiterated that
he simply could not imagine debbie doing something like that unless
something very tragic had happened.
he asked for my name, phone number and address - which i gave him,
and said he would try to contact debbie and failing that would find
someone who could reach her.
21 From: Jon Sullivan
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:02am
Subject: sign up jon@...
Jon Sullivan http://www.jonsullivan.com/
Public PGP key: http://www.jonsullivan.com/contact/pgp.txt
22 From: Rory Ewins
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:05am
Subject: CollegeClub connection rory@...
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85741
One point in favour of the college connection: seems that the obvious
answer to 'how could I hear two different women on the phone?' is
'roommates'.
23 From: Jon Sullivan
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:09am
Subject: New pictures jon@...
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I don't think these pictures have been posted before. They aren't of people
but Kaycee is claiming she took them.
I got to them via a web log of someone in San Diego who talked about
communicating with Kaycee a lot. Then on this page:
http://flamtap.com/weblog/archives/00000051.html
He links to an MSN community that is put together by "Kaycee"
The pictures are here:
http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Community=KCruisin&ID_Topic=1
Nothing big, but lots of possible cues.
Jon Sullivan http://www.jonsullivan.com/
Public PGP key: http://www.jonsullivan.com/contact/pgp.txt
24 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:09am
Subject: Re: New pictures -- dead end captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
I think I saw these this weekend. There's no personal information
there, and most of the photos look stock to me.
Unless we know someone who works at MSN who wouldn't mind opening
up the "KCruisin" account.
> He links to an MSN community that is put together by "Kaycee"
>
> The pictures are here:
> http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?
action=get_album&ID_Community=KCruisin&ID_Topic=1
>
> Nothing big, but lots of possible cues.
25 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:19am
Subject: ashley centrsgrrl@...
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i just posted on the other thread that jimfo might be on to
something. "kaycee" mentions going to visit "ashley" in miami where
she just moved to from seattle. peter voutov mentions in his journal
last year that he hadn't heard from "kasey" in a while and hadn't
received a phone number to seattle in his email.
how would debbie fit into this though? we know she has to be involved
somehow due to the physical location of the computer in peabody and
the p.o. box nearby.
26 From: velocityiseverything@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:22am
Subject: Could it be the true purpose... velocityiseverything@...
Send Email
of the hoax is to study the aftermath?
While quite new to all this, I tipped Drudge about it when I saw one
of her big boosters admit he had been fooled in his blog and was in
turn tipped by someone on MetaFilter that this all was a hoax.
Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a
master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the
fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.
This can only get better!
"On the internet, no one knows you're a dog..."
27 From: tif@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:24am
Subject: Re: ashley tif@...
Send Email
Or it could be that "Ashley" is just another personality here...
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., centrsgrrl@y... wrote:
> i just posted on the other thread that jimfo might be on to
> something. "kaycee" mentions going to visit "ashley" in miami where
> she just moved to from seattle. peter voutov mentions in his
journal
> last year that he hadn't heard from "kasey" in a while and hadn't
> received a phone number to seattle in his email.
>
> how would debbie fit into this though? we know she has to be
involved
> somehow due to the physical location of the computer in peabody and
> the p.o. box nearby.
28 From: Caren Wallace
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:39am
Subject: (No subject) caren@...
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i just joined :D
29 From: caren@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:41am
Subject: Re: hey kids... caren@...
Send Email
I'm glad someone is calling Debbie, I wanted to do it myself
earlier. I would like to know the truth. Also about the pastor, let
us know if you find anything, and Thank you.
I'm also wondering why noone who was so close with Kaycee is coming
out with any information, surely they would know more personal
details, phone numbers, etc...that would answer all of the questions
that have been raised, but noone is stepping forward. I would really
like to see this end nicely and find out what really is going on..
sigh.
-Caren
30 From: "Eve"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:49am
Subject: CollegeClub Club angelwng@...
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I think some interesting trails might be found in the
Kaycee's Friendly Support Club at CollegeClub:
http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/display.asp?ClubID=43917
I saw that kaycee11 logged on today (she has the same profile as
kutebabe) as has KCsCoolMom = Debbie
the list of club members is interesting - I haven't looked at to many
yet, but wanted to pass this link along for someone with a day off
tomorrow who could dig a little deeper.
And, yes, tropicalmist is a member.
31 From: "Jon Sullivan"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:50am
Subject: Link to the church? jon@...
Send Email
Can someone help me out here?
Clearly on the Swenon family homepage the name on the church sign has been added in Photoshop (I opened it and zoomed in - it's straight text tool), but centrs says there's a link on that page to the church that he got the number for "Troy Manley" from.
But I can't find the link to the church anywhere on the family's page.
Just trying to follow the chain.
32 From: caren@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:51am
Subject: Re: CollegeClub Club caren@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Eve" wrote:
> I think some interesting trails might be found in the
> Kaycee's Friendly Support Club at CollegeClub:
>
> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/display.asp?ClubID=43917
>
> I saw that kaycee11 logged on today (she has the same profile as
> kutebabe) as has KCsCoolMom = Debbie
>
> the list of club members is interesting - I haven't looked at to
many
> yet, but wanted to pass this link along for someone with a day off
> tomorrow who could dig a little deeper.
>
> And, yes, tropicalmist is a member.
I pointed out kaycee11 on the metafilter thread earlier today, looked
a bit funny to me, but also looked as if someone could have done it
just to make us find it. But the funny thing is that "kaycee11" is
listed as on of "Kutebabe"'s friends....
33 From: caren@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:52am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? caren@...
Send Email
The link to the church appeared on Kelli Swenson's Nsync fan site.
If you want to find it, look in the bookmarks, it is listed.
Geocities site.
Hope this helps
-C.
34 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:52am
Subject: Adopt-A-Mom? dhartung@...
Send Email
One more odd note. The kaycee11 identity on CC, which was previously
listed as a "friend" of kutebabe (the known Kaycee identity), and
which has the full name Kaycee Swenson (not known if this is new), is
a member of three clubs on CC. One is Kaycee's Support Club
http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=43917
which has Kutebabe as a co-moderator, and the other is Adopt-A-Mom
http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=135699
which has KCsCoolMom (the known Debbie identity) as a co-moderator.
Is this underlining a theory that there's a real Kaycee out there,
who adopted Debbie as a "mom"?
Oy. Wow, almost 50 members. Have fun, y'all, but behave. I'm going to
bed.
35 From: Caren Wallace
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:54am
Subject: Re: Adopt-A-Mom? caren@...
Send Email
Weird isn't it? Just too much of a coincedence, BTW. She just joined
today, "kaycee11" I mean. I found that earlier this afternoon while
looking through the CollegeClub site, and saw that she was the newest
member and had joined the same day.
On Tue, 22 May 2001 dhartung@... wrote:
> One more odd note. The kaycee11 identity on CC, which was previously
> listed as a "friend" of kutebabe (the known Kaycee identity), and
> which has the full name Kaycee Swenson (not known if this is new), is
> a member of three clubs on CC. One is Kaycee's Support Club
>
> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=43917
>
> which has Kutebabe as a co-moderator, and the other is Adopt-A-Mom
>
> http://www.collegeclub.com/clubs/frames_Clubs.asp?ClubID=135699
>
> which has KCsCoolMom (the known Debbie identity) as a co-moderator.
> Is this underlining a theory that there's a real Kaycee out there,
> who adopted Debbie as a "mom"?
>
> Oy. Wow, almost 50 members. Have fun, y'all, but behave. I'm going to
> bed.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
36 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:57am
Subject: church link centrsgrrl@...
Send Email
sorry guys, i'm a real lazy-ass when it comes to links:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/church1.html
37 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:58am
Subject: RE: Link to the church? tif@...
Send Email
Yep - it's on the "pix.html" page on the NSync page - let me grab the url:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/church1.html
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Sullivan [mailto:jon@jonsullivan.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:51 PM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Link to the church?
Can someone help me out here?
Clearly on the Swenon family homepage the name on the church sign has been added in Photoshop (I opened it and zoomed in - it's straight text tool), but centrs says there's a link on that page to the church that he got the number for "Troy Manley" from.
But I can't find the link to the church anywhere on the family's page.
Just trying to follow the chain.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
38 From: "Jon Sullivan"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:00am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? jon@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., caren@o... wrote:
> The link to the church appeared on Kelli Swenson's Nsync fan site.
> If you want to find it, look in the bookmarks, it is listed.
Yes, but.......
It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street address matches, but not the phone number.
So if the name "Troy Manley" is faked, and the phone numbers don't match..... who did centrs talk too?
39 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:05am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? phooeygirl@...
Send Email
> It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number
for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-
2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street
address matches, but not the phone number.
you mean the way they're formatted, as in (area code) phone-number
rather than areacode-phone-number?
check this out:
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/5293/geobook.html
"Tommy & Debbie Swenson - 09/07/98 03:58:57
My Email:tswenson@...
What is your favorite color?: Blue
Hi from Tom & Debbie from down the street in gracemont. Kelli is
almost 13 year old now. She hi to. Email us. bye. God Bless."
doesnt mean much, except its the same email as on kellis site, so it
verifies gracemont, if that hasnt been verified already.
40 From: caren@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:07am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? caren@...
Send Email
Unfortunately that e-mail is no longer active, I tried sending mail
to them, and to the yahoo account that is listed earlier this
afternoon.
-C.
41 From: "Jon Sullivan"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:08am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? jon@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:
> Yes, but.......
Sorry. My bad. Ignore Jon. Brain playing tricks.........
42 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:13am
Subject: church in gracemont centrsgrrl@...
Send Email
he answered the phone, "brother troy!" i'm sure he couldn't have been
expecting a call from any of us. that link was hard to find! i kept
going back and could never remember how i found that link.
43 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:14am
Subject: bye centrsgrrl@...
Send Email
ok. i must log off for tonight and get some work done before i get
fired. see ya!
44 From: "Jon Smith"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:15am
Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., velocityiseverything@y... wrote:
> of the hoax is to study the aftermath?
>
> While quite new to all this, I tipped Drudge about it when I saw
one
> of her big boosters admit he had been fooled in his blog and was in
> turn tipped by someone on MetaFilter that this all was a hoax.
>
> Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a
> master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the
> fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.
Unless the person writing the thesis or dissertation is getting his
or her degree from Sally struthers U. Accepting any social science
research conducted in such an unethical way would be dangerous to a
university in every possible way imaginable. You'd lose federal
funding, your rep would be shot, at least one dean and a president
would and a dept. chair would be fired, etc.
45 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:18am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:
regarding phone number formats
>
> Sorry. My bad. Ignore Jon. Brain playing tricks.........
Even the most prosaic differences now appear sinister. There's a
crack in the sidewalk outside my door .... *where did it come from?*
We have to be careful lest we start suspecting each other ....
46 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:19am
Subject: Re: Link to the church? mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Sullivan" wrote:
[[It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number
for the Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-
2276 as it says on the page centrs is referrencing. The street
address matches, but not the phone number.]]
It seems legit to me. The phone number on the Gracemont Baptist
Church page at Geocities matches the one in Yahoo Yellow Pages for
the church in Gracemont, Okla. One non-conspiratorial reason why you
would use PhotoShop to put Troy Manley's name on the church sign is
if he replaced someone else as pastor. Debbie certainly seems to be
fond of bad PhotoShop editing of photographs.
47 From: "simply caren."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:19am
Subject: hop into the chatroom.. caren@...
Send Email
if you don't want to clutter up the msgs, like i see that i'm doing
lol.
48 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:23am
Subject: No Jon Smith raysmj@...
Send Email
I don't what that was about. Never used this thing before. And I'm
22? It's Ray Mikell, 34. I wouldn't make up a last name no one (or at
least a few who are in-the-know) could pronounce, and I'd love to be
22 again, 'cept for the part about the cast.
49 From: tif@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:25am
Subject: Geocities acct all pictures gone? tif@...
Is it just me or did they just disappear?
50 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:27am
Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Jon Smith" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., velocityiseverything@y... wrote:
> > of the hoax is to study the aftermath?
snip
> > Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a
> > master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the
> > fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.
>
> Unless the person writing the thesis or dissertation is getting his
> or her degree from Sally struthers U. Accepting any social science
> research conducted in such an unethical way would be dangerous to a
> university in every possible way imaginable. You'd lose federal
> funding, your rep would be shot, at least one dean and a president
> would and a dept. chair would be fired, etc.
Indeed. See the creators' account of the infamous Stanford Prison
Experiment:
http://www.prisonexp.org/
Briefly, the experiment divided volunteers into two arbitrary groups:
guards and prisoners. Using a makeshift college basement, the guards
were to manage the prisoners, and quickly learned to use
reward/punish techniques to control and importantly, divide the
prisoners. Chillingly, the researchers found themselves so deeply
into the experiment that after friends of the volunteers attempted to
organize a (non-violent but quite serious) "prison break", the
researchers sought to continue the experiment in the county jail for
security. The sheriff wisely refused, and in a matter of hours it all
collapsed. Much was learned, but less about prison psychology and
more about how a badly-designed experiment can run amok, and affect
the experimenters' own perceptions and actions.
Today, partly because of such fiascoes, sociology experiments are
much more closely monitored and vetted. Consent is a very difficult
matter when double-blindness is necessary.
51 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:31am
Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., tif@s... wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/news.html
>
> Is it just me or did they just disappear?
Some aren't showing up; others are OK.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it reached the Geocities traffic
throttling threshold.
52 From: "simply caren."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:31am
Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? caren@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., tif@s... wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/frontrow/3838/news.html
>
> Is it just me or did they just disappear?
I see several pictures, some with "Kelli" in them..Aslo saw this
"Email to: tswenson@...
Please include my name "kelli" in the subject."
Why would someone put that in the subject? That is weird. Although
I've never shared e-mail with family members, so I don't know...hrm.
53 From: "sjc"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:37am
Subject: howdy howdy garbanzo666@...
Send Email
Just to let y'all know I'm here, and ready to add my crazy theories
to the mix.
I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get you
every time.
-- sjc (solistrato)
54 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:46am
Subject: Re: howdy howdy matt@...
Send Email
On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:
>I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get you
>every time.
Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.
Matt
(major league baseball will never hear your thoughts again with it on, I
swear by them)
55 From: chris_san@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:50am
Subject: Re: Geocities acct all pictures gone? chris_san@...
Send Email
> "Email to: tswenson@t...
> Please include my name "kelli" in the subject."
>
> Why would someone put that in the subject? That is weird.
Although
> I've never shared e-mail with family members, so I don't know...hrm.
It could be that they have a filter set up on their mail program to
deliver mail into separate inboxes for different family members. Or
so she can spot her personal mail manually (er... ocularly?
whatever...) in the family in-tray.
Chris
56 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:51am
Subject: Re: pastor troy + Check Metafilter wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- "You may call me sammy." wrote:
> Funny, I only have this stupid yahoo account so I could read
> Cloudmaker updates.
Whuzzat?
______________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
57 From: "Peggy Butterworth"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:13am
Subject: it just keeps getting stranger and stranger pbutterw@...
Send Email
I'm in the same boat as everyone else. I was suckered in with the sad Kaycee tale and now I want to know the whole story. Its incredible to watch this unfold. In an effort to do some 'unfolding' of my own, I sent some email to salon.com and a columnist with one of the Wichita papers asking if they planned on doing a story. I'll keep you all posted.
I think this fascinates me because I went against my better judgement in believing in Debbie and Kaycee. One of those, 'if she can be so joyful and upbeat in the face of death...' things. I cried when I heard she had died, but then started to question things when there was no report of her death in the news. A story like that being ignored, in a small midwestern town where kids who make the honor roll are front page news???
Peggy
58 From: "sjc"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:20am
Subject: Re: howdy howdy garbanzo666@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:
> >I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get
you
> >every time.
>
> Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.
Man, you're on a tear today. I still can't believe people thought
you were seriously going to pull down MeFi over this. ;)
59 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:30am
Subject: I’m bothered captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
Is anyone else bothered that the people who spoke with Debbie for the
better part of a year don't seem to be coming up with any
pertinent information? It seems that they have the best access to the
person believed to be the perpetrator and there are perfectly valid
questions left unanswered. If anything they seem to be closing off
and trying to leave this episode behind.
I'm sure they're embarassed, but that doesn't excuse
their absence.
There is no sense in having a bunch of tangentially related people
doing all this research when one of the orginators could just pick up
the phone.
Perhaps I'm overstating that, but it is basically true that they
have effectively withdrawn from the conversation.
It's like a replay of the first MetaFilter thread: If discussing
KayCee's existence was so painful, all the family had to was
disclose one small bit of proof regarding her existence. All people
are asking for this time is the slightest diligence.
60 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:34am
Subject: Re: Could it be the true purpose... wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- velocityiseverything@... wrote:
> Building a fake persona for nearly 2 years might be part of a
> master's or doctoral thesis, but the real area of interest is the
> fallout when it becomes public knowledge on the internet.
Wouldn't such a study be a massive violation of basic academic standards at
just about any university in the country? I'd think attempting a thesis based
on such massive fraud of unsuspecting victims would be enough to get the
student expelled.
61 From: khalloran1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:34am
Subject: Re: howdy howdy khalloran1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Matthew Haughey wrote:
> > On 03:37 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, sjc wrote:
> > >I personally think it was them mind control lasers. They'll get
> you
> > >every time.
> >
> > Dude. Two words: Aluminum helmet.
>
> Man, you're on a tear today. I still can't believe people thought
> you were seriously going to pull down MeFi over this. ;)
I was going to mail you to ask whether the Den Beste e6500 was available
this upcoming Friday evening ;)
62 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:35am
Subject: Metafilter in the press captcrackpipe@...
process=StoryInsideDope&sub_process=cda.story&process_right=com.inside
.cda.insidedope.InsideDopeRight&article_id=31316
Is davenet considered press?
http://davenet.userland.com/2001/05/20/fakingADeathOnline
63 From: "mike"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:44am
Subject: Re: I’m bothered zempf@...
Send Email
I don't know, if it was me I'd give them at least a little time to get
their bearings in all of this. I mean, I was not at all involved in
this & can look at it totally objectively, but if you'd devoted years
of your time caring for a terminally ill girl, sending her presents,
writing about her on your webpage, only to find out that she didn't
exist.. I'd think you'd want to pause for a bit & get your bearings
before you start investigating the whole thing.
-mike
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."
wrote:
> Is anyone else bothered that the people who spoke with Debbie for
the
> better part of a year don't seem to be coming up with any
> pertinent information? It seems that they have the best access to
the
> person believed to be the perpetrator and there are perfectly valid
> questions left unanswered. If anything they seem to be closing off
> and trying to leave this episode behind.
>
> I'm sure they're embarassed, but that doesn't excuse
> their absence.
>
> There is no sense in having a bunch of tangentially related people
> doing all this research when one of the orginators could just pick
up
> the phone.
>
> Perhaps I'm overstating that, but it is basically true that they
> have effectively withdrawn from the conversation.
>
> It's like a replay of the first MetaFilter thread: If discussing
> KayCee's existence was so painful, all the family had to was
> disclose one small bit of proof regarding her existence. All people
> are asking for this time is the slightest diligence.
64 From: "Eve"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46am
Subject: College Club - memberships that won't die angelwng@...
Send Email
Even though I should be in bed, I went to CollegeClub again, and
found that a Kutebabe1981 has just formed a membership with the "real
name" Kaycee Nicole Swenson - arrgghhh - it was just a matter of time
before footprints would stomp all over the crime scene - and just a
matter of time until "Kaycee Nicole Swenson's" multiply like rabbits.
I do think that bwg, et all, need to help get to the bottom of all
this. They knew Debbie, at least, and could call her to iron out the
details.
After all, people need their sleep here! We can't stay up all night
every night figuring it out ourselves!
65 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46am
Subject: Re: Re: Link to the church? wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- Jon Sullivan wrote:
> It looks like the Gracemont thing ia all faked. The phone number for the
> Baptist church in Gracemont is 405-966-2276. *Not* (405) 966-2276 as it says
> on the page centrs is referrencing.
What am I missing here? How don't those two numbers match?
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
66 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:49am
Subject: Re: Metafilter in the press matt@...
Send Email
On 04:35 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:
>http://www.inside.com/page/page_display?
>process=StoryInsideDope&sub_process=cda.story&process_right=com.inside
>.cda.insidedope.InsideDopeRight&article_id=31316
Attack of the 50-ft URL.
Cool, I haven't checked any stats for referrers today, but this is cool.
By the way, the thing you see posted at the ol' a.whole today is a
conversation with the *second* phone call I got today from someone at
Brill's/Inside. They were freaked out and slightly pissed that their cover
boy might be a sham. The first guy thought it was funny (and probably wrote
this inside story, because I explained it to him), the second guy (the one
being quoted) was just pissed.
>Is davenet considered press?
nope. (kidding Dave! zooooooom!)
Matt
67 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:51am
Subject: julie fullbright phooeygirl@...
Send Email
try this on for size:
http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
look a bit familiar?
68 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:57am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright matt@...
Send Email
On 04:51 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, christine wrote:
>try this on for size:
>
>http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
>
>look a bit familiar?
Holy shit, how'd you find it?
Matt
(madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms. Fullbright)
69 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:56am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
we have a winner! (I think. For some of the photos.)
Anyone have the old KayCee photos. Google didn't cache them.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
> try this on for size:
>
> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
>
> look a bit familiar?
70 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:57am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright sarapture@...
Send Email
Wow, creepy! How did you ever find that? Good detective work!
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
> try this on for size:
>
> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
>
> look a bit familiar?
71 From: "christine"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:58am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright phooeygirl@...
Send Email
> Holy shit, how'd you find it?
>
> Matt
> (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.
Fullbright)
looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever
uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a
game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that
name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all
the action is.
72 From: "sjc"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:58am
Subject: Another crackpot theory? Why not? garbanzo666@...
Send Email
So I've posted another theory to MeFi:
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85883
And goddamn, that's some good detective work on Julie Fullbright.
This thing just gets sicker and sicker.
73 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:59am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
I specifically recall Living Colour blog saying something about "I
use to score 40 pts a game." The first record returned is Fullbright
scoring 36.
This is it.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> Wow, creepy! How did you ever find that? Good detective work!
>
>
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
> > try this on for size:
> >
> > http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
> >
> > look a bit familiar?
74 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:00am
Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright matt@...
Send Email
On 04:56 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, You may call me sammy. wrote:
>Anyone have the old KayCee photos. Google didn't cache them.
Google doesn't cache images, just text and web pages. Images always load
from the original server, so if the server's gone or down or the images
removed, you get broken images.
Matt
75 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:00am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright -- the stats i was talking about captcrackpipe@...
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "You may call me sammy."
wrote:
>
> I specifically recall Living Colour blog saying something about "I
> use to score 40 pts a game." The first record returned is
Fullbright
> scoring 36.
>
> This is it.
76 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:01am
Subject: RE: Re: julie fullbright tif@...
Send Email
Yep - I was stuck on the blue thing, and the Lady Lions - and found a page on Kelli's site about the "Lady Lions" that had the same school colors, and the same font as one of the pictures on the page with Kutebabe and Kuteone, and told everyone I thought it was someone in Gracemont, then someone found a page on Kelli's site with the roster and a bunch of pics for the Gracemont varsity basketball team - #10 was Julie Fullbright, we found a picture of #10 and it was her ... just a lot of putting things together
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: christine [mailto:phooeygirl@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:58 PM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: julie fullbright
> Holy shit, how'd you find it?
>
> Matt
> (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.
Fullbright)
looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever
uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a
game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that
name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all
the action is.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
77 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:03am
Subject: re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
This person is alive right?
78 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:06am
Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright matt@...
Send Email
On 04:58 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, christine wrote:
>looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by whoever
>uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of pictures of a
>game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster, searched for that
>name until a page with a pic showed up. join the chat, its where all
>the action is.
You crazy metafilter kids!
You're all hopped up on google!
Great work though. Wow. Who would have thought there's enough evidence
online to prove a weird case like this?
Matt
(maybe that google thing should be a new tagline)
79 From: "You may call me sammy."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:11am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright captcrackpipe@...
Send Email
I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this
person all through high school.
Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the
neighborhood?
Okay, uploaded a few pics from the Kutebabe CollegeClub.
http://www.raaka.com/stuff/warrior10.jpg
http://www.raaka.com/stuff/kace.jpg
One question just got answered. Scratch "Who was in those photos off
the list?".
80 From: "sjc"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:15am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright garbanzo666@...
Sorry, I might be slow here - why is "Warriors" badly Photoshopped
on, again?
81 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- christine wrote:
> join the chat, its where all
> the action is.
What chat?
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
82 From: "Tiffany Ring"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am
Subject: RE: Re: julie fullbright tif@...
Send Email
They were the lady Lions - Kaycee referred to herself as a "Warrior".
Tiffany Ring-Mulroy
-----Original Message-----
From: sjc [mailto:garbanzo666@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:15 AM
To: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Subject: kaycee-nicole Re: julie fullbright
> http://www.raaka.com/stuff/warrior10.jpg
Sorry, I might be slow here - why is "Warriors" badly Photoshopped
on, again?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
kaycee-nicole-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
83 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re: Another crackpot theory? Why not? sarapture@...
Send Email
That's a good theory...But try this on for size...maybe Debbie wasn't
involved at al?l...maybe it was the two girls (ashley and kelli??) who
liked halcyon...and one was posing as debbie and one was kaycee?? I
mean, as odd as this all is, it seems even odder for a 40 year old
religious woman to be involved in this...It would make more sense if it
was 2 dopey 19 year olds...well, it does to me anyway...Maybe they just
used Debbie's name? I wish halcyon or bwg would chime in on whether
"debbie" sounded like she was older and like a "mom"...hmmm...
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:
> So I've posted another theory to MeFi:
>
> http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85883
>
> And goddamn, that's some good detective work on Julie Fullbright.
> This thing just gets sicker and sicker.
84 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:17am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright dhartung@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
>
> > Holy shit, how'd you find it?
> >
> > Matt
> > (madly searching google now for high school team pics of Ms.
> Fullbright)
>
> looked up gracemont high school, found a website created by
> whoever uses the family swenson email account, found a bunch of
> pictures of a game, saw her number, cheked it against the roster,
> searched for that name until a page with a pic showed up.
Great work. Can you put that high school website in the bookmarks?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/links
> join the chat, its where all the action is.
I knew I left that active for a reason. I don't suppose Yahoo Chat
lets you log?
85 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:18am
Subject: The Real Kaycee Nicole mail@...
Send Email
I think that the "Kaycee Nicole" photographs are of a girl who played
for the Gracemont (Oklahoma) High School Lady Lions.
The jacket "Kaycee" is wearing on this page ...
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html
... includes the letters "emo", the Gracemont school's colors are
blue and white and the mascot is the Lions.
Other photos of "Kaycee" show her as one of the homecoming court in
the year 2000, wearing blue "class of 2000" sweat pants and wearing
uniform no. 10.
The girl who wore no. 10 during 1999-2000 was Julie Fullbright, a 5-
foot-9 guard and forward. Kaycee gave her height as 5--foot-9 on her
weblog, which is cached here:
http://www.google.com/search?
q=cache:o8Q7KAr9Q9I:vanderwoning.com/living/vitals.html+kaycee+nicole+
basketball&hl=en
In case you're worried about my intimate knowledge of Oklahoma high
school girls basketball, I found that stuff at http://www.okhss.com.
Fullbright plays college basketball for Southern Nazarene University
in Bethany, Oklahoma.
Here's a page with her picture on it:
http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
86 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:22am
Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- "You may call me sammy." wrote:
>
> I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this
> person all through high school.
>
> Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the
> neighborhood?
Debbie Swenson better pray she's a relation, otherwise she's about to get the
mother of all lawsuits from Julie Fullbright. Impersonation of someone else is
a felony in most states.
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
87 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:24am
Subject: Another clue?? sarapture@...
Send Email
Hey - check this out:
http://sports.snu.edu/info/Basketball/women
The first player on the list on "Kaycee's" college team is #10 - Kacey
Whitworth...
A connection maybe??
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> I think that the "Kaycee Nicole" photographs are of a girl who played
> for the Gracemont (Oklahoma) High School Lady Lions.
>
> The jacket "Kaycee" is wearing on this page ...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html
>
> ... includes the letters "emo", the Gracemont school's colors are
> blue and white and the mascot is the Lions.
>
> Other photos of "Kaycee" show her as one of the homecoming court in
> the year 2000, wearing blue "class of 2000" sweat pants and wearing
> uniform no. 10.
>
> The girl who wore no. 10 during 1999-2000 was Julie Fullbright, a 5-
> foot-9 guard and forward. Kaycee gave her height as 5--foot-9 on her
> weblog, which is cached here:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?
> q=cache:o8Q7KAr9Q9I:vanderwoning.com/living/vitals.html+kaycee+nicole+
> basketball&hl=en
>
> In case you're worried about my intimate knowledge of Oklahoma high
> school girls basketball, I found that stuff at http://www.okhss.com.
>
> Fullbright plays college basketball for Southern Nazarene University
> in Bethany, Oklahoma.
>
> Here's a page with her picture on it:
>
> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
88 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Another crackpot theory? Why not? matt@...
Send Email
On 05:17 AM 5/22/2001 +0000, Sara wrote:
>That's a good theory...But try this on for size...maybe Debbie wasn't
>involved at al?l...maybe it was the two girls (ashley and kelli??) who
>liked halcyon...
My thoughts:
http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7856#85903
This whole falling for halcyon thing is probably closer to a motive than we
think. I mean, he's dead sexy, he's the nicest person on earth, who
wouldn't do him?
I always thought the KC stuff sounded like it was written as if she were
taught by Halcyon on how to write about the world. Always optimistic and
positive, and all hugs and smileys.
I should have listened to my nagging doubts back then.
Matt
89 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:34am
Subject: Re: The Real Kaycee Nicole mail@...
Send Email
Damn, I got scooped!
90 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:34am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Aaron Dickey wrote:
> --- "You may call me sammy." wrote:
> >
> > I think this is damn near conclusive. Swenson has photos of this
> > person all through high school.
> >
> > Think she's a niece or some other relation? Just someone in the
> > neighborhood?
>
> Debbie Swenson better pray she's a relation, otherwise she's about
to get the
> mother of all lawsuits from Julie Fullbright. Impersonation of
someone else is
> a felony in most states.
>
I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two minds
as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering about
the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her
totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com
(under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current posts,
and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that audralea
had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site for
the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.
91 From: "sjc"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:35am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright garbanzo666@...
Send Email
> I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two
minds
> as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering
about
> the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her
> totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com
> (under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current
posts,
> and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that audralea
> had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site
for
> the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.
Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the web-
savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?
92 From: Aaron Dickey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:47am
Subject: Re: Re: julie fullbright wnnaaron@...
Send Email
--- Ray Mikell wrote:
> I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two minds
> as to whether there is one person involved.
Well, _Somebody's_ going to be in serious legal trouble if these pictures of
Julie Whatever (already forgot her name) were appropriated without permisson
in order to claim to be someone else.
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
93 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:49am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...
> Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the
web-
> savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?
But why give it to someone like Kaycee? Jonesboro is not anywhere
close to Wichita. It's more Memphis-centric. You also should look at
her site, especially the conversation section. Hunter Thompson and
Charles Bukowski favorite writers, a little smidgen of cutsey but not
more than you'd expect out of any college girl. I know her type,
almost to the letter. Unless her good girl side was just really
moved, I don't get it. No Dr. Feelgood "positivity" of the Halcyon
type there. More southern quasi-bohemianism (which is sometimes more
off-the-wall than real bohemianism, 'cause of what it comes from, but
that's another story.) Adds a weird twist to this story, in any
case.
94 From: leia@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:53am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright leia@...
Send Email
Amazing. Excellent work, Scooby gang.
Leia
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "christine" wrote:
> try this on for size:
>
> http://sports.snu.edu/players/Basketball/women/Julie_Fullbright/
>
> look a bit familiar?
95 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:02am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright mail@...
Send Email
After reading on MetaFilter that someone sent Julie Fullbright a link
to the latest Kaycee Nicole thread, I figured she ought to get a
concise explanation of what we found out, so I sent her the following
e-mail:
I'm writing to alert you to an unusual situation.
It appears that someone has published photos of you on the Web and
claimed they were of "Kaycee Nicole Swenson," a 19-year-old college
student who was fighting leukemia and died last week.
Here are links to some of the photos:
http://home.collegeclub.com/KCsCoolMom/allstar.html
http://home.collegeclub.com/Tazwoman/
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/3838/kc.html
These photos and others were used as part of an online diary about
Kaycee's health battle. Eight days ago, the diary stated that Kaycee
had died. After people started questioning the veracity of the diary,
the author admitted that Kaycee Nicole doesn't exist.
The author appears to be Debbie Swenson, a woman who lives in Peabody,
Kansas, and was a former resident of Gracemont, Oklahoma. Swenson
accepted gifts and perhaps even money from people who were concerned
about Kaycee. The online diary included a P.O. box in Newton, Kansas,
that was rented by Debbie.
I don't know how much of this is news to you or not, but on the
possibility that you were unaware of this, I felt like you should be
told. My only connection to this is that I was one of the people who
thought Kaycee was real and was saddened by her death.
96 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:02am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "sjc" wrote:
> > I doubt there is much to sue "Debbie" for, although I'm of two
> minds
> > as to whether there is one person involved. I'm still wondering
> about
> > the audralea person, but everyone seems to have forgotten her
> > totally. There's a chat at http://www.audralea.com
> > (under "conversation," if I remember correctly), with current
> posts,
> > and not once is Kaycee mentioned. Not saying outright that
audralea
> > had anything to do with it, but he fact that she bought the site
> for
> > the girl never made any sense to me. Something's missing there.
>
> Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the
web-
> savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?
Oh, and Jonesboro is the home of Arkansas State University. Audra is
20. That doesn't mean she's *from* Jonesboro, and to date, no one has
mentioned her hometown. She could very well be from Kansas or
Oklahoma.
97 From: "Anil Dash"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:03am
Subject: Audra Lee anil@...
Send Email
Short time lurker, first time poster...
I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain registration
gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut feeling
to back that up.
I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.
98 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:31am
Subject: Re: Audra Lee raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Anil Dash" wrote:
> Short time lurker, first time poster...
>
> I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain
registration
> gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut
feeling
> to back that up.
>
> I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.
I don't know anyone who could do her character well enough. And my
gut feeling is all over the place, so . . . Anyway, sometimes you
should go the counter-intuitive route just for the hell of it, to
cross your i's, so to speak. In the social sciences, they call it
looking for "lurking" variables, the ones you've ignored, since
nothing in your experience or from past research tell you about. Cops
and reporters would consider it to be covering their all the
bases/covering their asses. Same thing.
99 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:35am
Subject: Re: Audra Lee raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Anil Dash" wrote:
> Short time lurker, first time poster...
>
> I think Audra Lee is a dead end. I would take her domain
registration
> gift at face value, but I don't have anything other than gut
feeling
> to back that up.
>
> I still say we should settle this whole thing by having Debbie die.
If we could find someone to impersonate Debbie well enough. Invent a
whole new Debbie and kill her off. Anyway, my gut is going all over
the place here. Leaning to the single-bullet-in-Kansas theory, but
there's too much iffiness. Seems like some counter-intuitiveness
might work, actually. In the social sciences, you'd call that looking
for a "hidden" or "lurking" variable, the one you ignored because it
didn't fit your experience or a given body of research. Cops and
reporters would call it covering all the bases or covering their
asses. Same thing.
100 From: tony@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:58am
Subject: The last one on board tony@...
Send Email
I spent the weekend away, and I come home late tonight and all this
has gone down. "She" and I emailed back and forth a lot and spoke on
the phone a few times.
Holy shit. Really. The magnitude of the ruse that went down here is
still boggling my little mind. The Halcyon crush / Ashley tag-team /
Julie picture thing sure covers the bases, though, don't it? Damn.
I have a voice mail of hers that I saved, if anyone wants to hear it.
101 From: call912now@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:08am
Subject: Lady Lions redux call912now@...
Send Email
I actually stretched the bottom of the warrior10.jpg picture and saw a
nice lion, but never went any farther with it, thinking that
A) maybe the picture was taken at an "away" game
B) I had also obsessed enough for one evening... har!
102 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:15am
Subject: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...
Send Email
For those of us who can't get into the chat!
103 From: yahoo@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:33am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> For those of us who can't get into the chat!
See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and
you'll be able to access the chat.
:) Suzanne
104 From: yahoo@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...
Send Email
> See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and
> you'll be able to access the chat.
>
> :) Suzanne
If I was less tired, I would have said more correctly, the upper
RIGHT. Sorry!
:) S
105 From: "simply caren."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am
Subject: Re: julie fullbright caren@...
Send Email
I also sent mail to Julie as I was one of the four that put the
pieces together and helped discover the picture of her, etc. I have
no received a response, I don't think she checks that e-mail,
although it is active because it has not bounced back yet, which is a
good thing.
106 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:36am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...
Send Email
Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program
crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Sara" wrote:
> > For those of us who can't get into the chat!
>
> See that big "join this group" in the upper left? Click on that and
> you'll be able to access the chat.
>
> :) Suzann
107 From: yahoo@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...
Send Email
> Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on
my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program
> crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!
Ooh, shitty.
Well, at the moment, nothing much. There was some argument about the
validity of wanting to persecute Debbie, but mostly it's people
reacting to discovering what appears to be the truth -- and the
concept of news coverage.
Nothing new has come out that hasn't been on the MeFi threads.
:) S
108 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:42am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...
Send Email
Oh! Thank you...This has had me riveted all evening!
So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will be reporting on this??
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:
> > Thanks, Suzanne, but I can't get in because of technical probs on
> my computer...i'm on a mac and the javascript in the chat program
> > crashes my computer! So, what's going on in there??!
>
> Ooh, shitty.
>
> Well, at the moment, nothing much. There was some argument about the
> validity of wanting to persecute Debbie, but mostly it's people
> reacting to discovering what appears to be the truth -- and the
> concept of news coverage.
>
> Nothing new has come out that hasn't been on the MeFi threads.
>
> :) S
109 From: yahoo@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:47am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! yahoo@...
Send Email
> So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will
be reporting on this??
Not that I have read -- but apparently she confesse, so possibly.
Not sure to whom, the media, Matt or BWG? Not sure.
No idea on the media, either, just that there have been conversations.
Sorry!
:) S
110 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:50am
Subject: Re: can't chat - please someone post an update! sarapture@...
Send Email
No problem! Thanks for reporting to me. :)
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yahoo@z... wrote:
> > So has anyone actually spoken with Debbie? Any idea what media will
> be reporting on this??
>
> Not that I have read -- but apparently she confesse, so possibly.
> Not sure to whom, the media, Matt or BWG? Not sure.
>
> No idea on the media, either, just that there have been conversations.
>
> Sorry!
>
> :) S
111 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:54am
Subject: Summing up dhartung@...
Send Email
There have been some developments not posted here.
Matt, Saundra, and others have been interviewed by local/regional
papers and national media (CNN/MSNBC). This may be getting big
airplay as an oddly-enough type of story.
One of the local papers seems to have reached Debbie and gotten a
story that her daughter Kelli and her N'Sync friends created Kaycee
to meet boys. Debbie found out about it, and somehow took over the
character (maybe starting out as a protection thing?), added the
cancer, and it snowballed.
Everything was going fine until she became SO big a net.celeb that
people were insisting Kaycee attend SXSW and then JournalCon,
offering airfare etc. So it would have been very unbelievable for her
not to show. This is why she was "killed".
Debbie apparently maintains that she did nothing wrong, did not
accept gifts or money.
Law enforcement is asking questions, including Postal Inspectors,
maybe even the FBI. But this is hearsay.
Anyway, that's pretty much what the chat has been about.
112 From: "elizAbeth stArk"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:04am
Subject: okay, i'm here... amazingjettgrrrl@...
I ROCK!! You might, I haven't decided yet. Check out my website at
http://www.geocities.com/thejettgrrrl
Sign the guestbook and stuff, or I will make yer life miserable.
_____________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
113 From: white@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 9:59am
Subject: Re: I was a long time reader. white@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., ewwgene@y... wrote:
> I'd been reading Kaycee's blog for about a year and a half now. I
> thought she was real. Lots of her posts brought tears to my eyes.
>
> I have no problem with this being a hoax. It makes the whole
shabang
> a lot more interesting. I've been following all weekend, and was
> constantly refreshing all morning- glad i skipped classes today.
>
I was pretty damn upset at first, at having been induced to grieve
over someone who didn't exist - but on reflection, I think of it as
somewhere between a Frankenstein's Monster that got out of control,
and a really, really impressive work of art.
I knew a fictional person, and I'm a better man for it. That's an
extraordinary thing to have done.
114 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: Re: howdy howdy sdenbes1@...
> I was going to mail you to ask whether the Den Beste e6500 was available
> this upcoming Friday evening ;)
Sorry, I've got a date with a beautiful AS-400 in the next clean room.
115 From: yrekcom2000@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Bookmarks yrekcom2000@...
Send Email
>I'll add one of my pages to the list:
>http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html
"...and tell us how you finally broke the case of the Kennedy
Assasination."
"Well, we poked around on the internet, found a lot of weird
connections. Of course the evidence was thin on the ground, and there
was no actual proof. Then we uncovered an important piece of
information, namely that the director of the CIA felt guilty about
the whole thing and offered a confession. I think most of us knew we
were on to something then."
"Wow! Brilliant detective work!"
116 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:04pm
Subject: Re: Bookmarks sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yrekcom2000@y... wrote:
>
> >I'll add one of my pages to the list:
> >http://www.hijinks.com/~mark/brills.html
>
> "...and tell us how you finally broke the case of the Kennedy
> Assasination."
>
> "Well, we poked around on the internet, found a lot of weird
> connections. Of course the evidence was thin on the ground, and there
> was no actual proof. Then we uncovered an important piece of
> information, namely that the director of the CIA felt guilty about
> the whole thing and offered a confession. I think most of us knew we
> were on to something then."
>
> "Wow! Brilliant detective work!"
I don't think that's a fair characterisation of the situation. For one thing, Debbie didn't identify the source of the pictures. (Great work, folks! I really feel sorry for Julie. She is the worst victim here, because she's the only one sucked in without being gullible.)
For another, I think it's arguable that Debbie wouldn't have confessed if she hadn't felt pressure from the investigation. Even as late as last Friday, BWG was actively defending her online. I think what may have happened is that the Metafilter posts from Saturday shook him, and he called Debbie and started pressing, and that's when she confessed.
So there really was cause-and-effect, plus a lot of information (like Julie) discovered directly.
117 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: Media On Wednesday saundra@...
Send Email
Small media, but media none the less. The Peabody Gazette will run a
story about this on Wednesday, which may get printed in the Hillsboro
Star Journal and the Marion Record as well.
Quoting from the e-mail:
"One of our reporters, Rick Hattersley, has contacted the woman in
question and had a lengthy and fairly interesting interview with her.
He also has been in touch with the county attorney, police chief and
postal inspectors.
"To date, we have no evidence of money have been sent to the post
office box, which would seem to be a significant element in whether a
crime might have been committed."
So we seem to know more than they do, at least at this particular
moment.
Saundra
118 From: yrekcom2000@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Bookmarks yrekcom2000@...
Send Email
Oh, ok, I agree that the confession wouldn't have happened w/o the
MeFi threads. But pressuring a suspect is not being a great detective
(ok, maybe it is; I'm not a cop...), and I was just taking the piss a
little...
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., sdenbes1@s... wrote:
>
> I don't think that's a fair characterisation of the situation. For
one thing, Debbie didn't identify the source of the pictures. (Great
work, folks! I really feel sorry for Julie. She is the worst victim
here, because she's the only one sucked in without being gullible.)
>
> For another, I think it's arguable that Debbie wouldn't have
confessed if she hadn't felt pressure from the investigation. Even as
late as last Friday, BWG was actively defending her online. I think
what may have happened is that the Metafilter posts from Saturday
shook him, and he called Debbie and started pressing, and that's when
she confessed.
>
> So there really was cause-and-effect, plus a lot of information
(like Julie) discovered directly.
119 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Bookmarks mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., yrekcom2000@y... wrote:
> Oh, ok, I agree that the confession wouldn't have happened w/o the
> MeFi threads. But pressuring a suspect is not being a great
detective ...
The only thing that pressured Debbie Swenson was the truth. She could
have shut up all of the speculation on MetaFilter instantly if there
was a single fact to back up Kaycee's existence.
120 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 2:34pm
Subject: Debbie's Latest Confession mail@...
Send Email
There's a FAQ about this situation:
http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
It's a good summary, but I think it assumes too much speculative
stuff as proven already, especially in regard to the latest
confession that's supposedly been told to people in the media.
122 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:36pm
Subject: Re: email to julie fullbright sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Allison" wrote:
> I've been a silent observer here, but I did read that someone had
> sent an email to Julie Fullbright advising her of what is going on.
> Her email address is on the SNU webpage and I'm assuming that's the
> one that was used. jfullbri@m...
>
> I feel pretty bad for her, since she is the real victim in this
> situation.
Julie is the biggest victim here, so let's not make it worse for her by flooding her with email and letters, OK?
There is no doubt whatever in my mind that she is not a party to this.
An email has now been sent to her. It isn't necessary for anyone else to send any more.
123 From: jenn@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:41pm
Subject: Re: audra lee jenn@...
Send Email
Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her
boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the
domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a
kind gesture for Kaycee.
(http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)
Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I
wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain
registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there is
not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think
we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.
Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Ray Mikell" wrote:
> >
> > Hmmmm. It's not uncommon to give domain names as gifts among the
> web-
> > savvy. And besides, she's in Arkansas, isn't she?
>
> But why give it to someone like Kaycee? Jonesboro is not anywhere
> close to Wichita. It's more Memphis-centric. You also should look
at
> her site, especially the conversation section. Hunter Thompson and
> Charles Bukowski favorite writers, a little smidgen of cutsey but
not
> more than you'd expect out of any college girl. I know her type,
> almost to the letter. Unless her good girl side was just really
> moved, I don't get it. No Dr. Feelgood "positivity" of the Halcyon
> type there. More southern quasi-bohemianism (which is sometimes
more
> off-the-wall than real bohemianism, 'cause of what it comes from,
but
> that's another story.) Adds a weird twist to this story, in any
> case.
124 From: "Rich"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:05pm
Subject: coordination rich@...
Send Email
I posted this on metafilter already, but wanted to make sure this
group saw it..
I figure that if this does blow up into a huge media thing, as well as
legal, there may be some things you all want to do;
1. get a list of all the things people sent to Debbie, and who sent
them. Not culled from her blog, since that information is of course
very suspect, but from the actual senders.
2. find one person to cordinate information. List out who helped with
the investigation, what they contributed, and so forth, so everyone
gets some recognition when the time comes.
3. Have a main spokesperson that can help keep all the information
straight with the media, and direct them to the right people to talk
to about certain things (how the IP address was found, etc)
Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with
e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so
she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you
want to contact her to help her with her rights.
125 From: "Rich"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:08pm
Subject: Re: audra lee rich@...
Send Email
And along the lines stated below (don't make people out to be guilty
by association).. don't ruin all the good work done so far by jumping
to conclusions as you move forward to flesh out everything that
happened. There are still lots of innocent people out there that were
probably unwittingly involved - like Audra and Mr. Styn.
Do the background work and make sure before throwing out accusations.
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., jenn@g... wrote:
> Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her
> boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the
> domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a
> kind gesture for Kaycee.
> (http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)
>
> Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I
> wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain
> registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there is
> not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think
> we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.
>
> Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.
>
126 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: audra lee raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., jenn@g... wrote:
> Audra has stated that she was working for an ISP when her
> boyfriend "introduced" her to Kaycee's blog. So Audra bought the
> domain because she was able to do so cheaply, and she did it as a
> kind gesture for Kaycee.
> (http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/7819#84774)
>
> Besides, if I were to register a domain for my faked identity, I
> wouldn't use my real name/address. So, since audralea.com's domain
> registration information matches the kayeenicole.com's, and there
is
> not solid evidence proving a link between Debbie and Audra, I think
> we should assume that Audra was not involved in the hoax.
>
> Let's not make people out to be guilty, merely by association.
>
I believe the original message said I wasn't saying anyone was guilty
or not, so you're assuming something there yourself that you
shoudn't. Only an angle no one had covered much at all, and one that
didn't make much sense to me. It still doesn't, completely. She
seemed to smart and wised up to me. Oh well. No one's perfect. (And
just for good measure, there's a difference in my book between
a "good girl/boy" or "decent girl/boy," and there was no wrong
implication there.) No one should have to think that they should have
care so much for any *specific* someone they've never met or who is
not related to them, I don't think. No one should be made to feel bad
for not joining the crowd. That's at least partially what started the
whole mess to begin with.
127 From: "brooke"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:12pm
Subject: did someone take screen shots of the various kaycee sites? brooke@...
Send Email
i'm essientally just watching with major facination at this whole
thing.. yes, i was one of those duped into believing the whole thing..
but not for long though, only 6 mos, but duped enough to become a link
on her website and to share a few emails with "kaycee" and one,
recently, with debbie..
but, i'm curious, did someone take screenshots of the websites.. the
many with julie's pictures on them? they could be valuable, as i'm
sure that the sites might get taken down.
128 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:18pm
Subject: Re: coordination sdenbes1@...
Send Email
> Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with
> e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so
> she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you
> want to contact her to help her with her rights.
An email has now ALREADY BEEN SENT to Julie. Do not send any more.
Don't make it worse for her than it has already become.
129 From: "Ray Mikell"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:46pm
Subject: Re: did someone take screen shots of the various kaycee sites? raysmj@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "brooke" wrote:
> i'm essientally just watching with major facination at this whole
> thing.. yes, i was one of those duped into believing the whole
thing..
> but not for long though, only 6 mos, but duped enough to become a
link
> on her website and to share a few emails with "kaycee" and one,
> recently, with debbie..
>
> but, i'm curious, did someone take screenshots of the websites.. the
> many with julie's pictures on them? they could be valuable, as i'm
> sure that the sites might get taken down.
Probably law enforcement has these details already. Just cross your
fingers and hope nothing get lost, a la the FBI/McVeigh follies.
130 From: Al Sessions
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: coordination al@...
Send Email
sdenbes1@... wrote:
>> Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with
>> e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so
>> she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you
>> want to contact her to help her with her rights.
> An email has now ALREADY BEEN SENT to Julie. Do not send any more.
I have little doubt that Julie has received dozens, if not hundreds,
of emails. As have, John Styn, BWG, Audra (sp?), and anyone with the
misfortune to share a surname with any of these folks.
> Don't make it worse for her than it has already become.
It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or
do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to
pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the
privacy of the people involved.
I do not feel that it is up to me (or anybody else) to police the web.
If you sent money, donated bandwidth under false pretenses, or can
otherwise *prove* harm to yourself I would suggest a call to the
attorney general. Otherwise, this entire fiasco is beginning to bear a
distinct resemblance to the crowd gathered around a bleeding victim of
a car accident or shooting.
A fraud has been brought into the light. The community has done it's
job. It is now up to others to determine if a crime has been committed
and how to proceed.
--
Al Sessions
al@...
http://fatuos.com
131 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:18pm
Subject: Media on Thursday saundra@...
Cincinnati) will be running a story on this in their online version on
Thursday, in the Arts & Entertainment section. It will be followed by
a print version sometime next week.
Saundra
132 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:19pm
Subject: Re: coordination matt@...
Send Email
On 04:05 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, Rich wrote:
>I figure that if this does blow up into a huge media thing, as well as
>legal, there may be some things you all want to do;
>
>1. get a list of all the things people sent to Debbie, and who sent
>them. Not culled from her blog, since that information is of course
>very suspect, but from the actual senders.
It sounds like the police would like to know who sent money. Copies of
cashed checks coming back from your bank may be all the evidence needed.
There were gifts, and I'm sure there were receipts. There were amazon gift
certificates, and those are interesting in and of themselves. I'm sure
amazon can trace gift certs, and show who redeemed then, what was
purchased, and where the items were sent (this is of course a police
matter, and I doubt any of us can ever uncover it).
>2. find one person to cordinate information. List out who helped with
>the investigation, what they contributed, and so forth, so everyone
>gets some recognition when the time comes.
>
>3. Have a main spokesperson that can help keep all the information
>straight with the media, and direct them to the right people to talk
>to about certain things (how the IP address was found, etc)
Yes, I'd say getting the stories straight and having someone that can be
contacted would help, not hurt this story (but don't nominate me). I think
it's very important to try and give this a positive spin when talking to
reporters. I've done bad interviews with people that basically had their
opinionated, erroneous story done and just called to get me to agree so
they could submit it.
I'm sure the lazier reporters would like this to be The Net (worst. movie.
ever.), but played out in real life. It can also be a story of people
sharing their stories online (and getting duped), using the net for
ingenious research, and how a group of people cracked the case together
using the web.
>Also, I agree with the point about Julie.. don't barage her with
>e-mail. One person get in touch with her and bring her up to date so
>she doesn't get pounded by the media. Any lawyers in here? Maybe you
>want to contact her to help her with her rights.
I think if someone has, and the results are at all interesting (how could
they not be?), she'll get the media barrage anyway.
Matt
133 From: "brooke"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 5:42pm
Subject: i don't know if its relevant brooke@...
Send Email
but i took screen shots of the two pages w/ pictures still on them..
the swenson family homepage, and the kc.html page under kelli's insync
pages.. most of the pictures there had been taken, except one. if
anyone is interested, they can be found at:
http://rivervision.com/blog/kc/
-brooke.
134 From: "Nikki"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:03pm
Subject: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...
I am just venting here so please bear with me.
I offer the prespective of someone that received gifts from Kaycee,
talked to her, and knew her for years!
I have thought for sometime now about not commenting on this issue.
See...I was one of the few fortunite individuals who knew KC on
Collegeclub. We were both hosts..infact our connection started
because we began hosting on CC the same day.
This had to have been back in the late 90's 97-99.
To say that I talked to her religiously is an understatement. I mean
we chatted..emailed, exchanged voicemails and even talked on the
phone. We stayed in communication. I thought I was going through it
all with her...her crushes the way she was getting always approached
by CC members for advise. She was the host of the Love/Relationships
Channel for gods sake. She spent hours upon hours of time online.
Then the whole cancer thing broke out. The KC Support Group was
formed.
The tale gets deeper. I mean for Christmas she sent me a diamond
pendent. I have been mentioned in posts....she talked about her
SIS's nika, christine and nicole...I am nicole. In fact debbie
almost 2 weeks ago mentioned how a book i sent her on the caretaking
of cancer patients helped her. My very outdated blog is linked to
hers and you can check archives to see that I spoke about feeling
like debbie was my far away mother. Damn I brought her a mothers day
card. http://www.understandingourselves.com
I talked well received an IM from Kaycee on the day she had died.
When I found out...I was crushed.
Why am I writing all this...cause i feel stupid, and hurt. I mean..I
can still here Kaycee's voice..she has my home addy and phone.
I look back and can see some odd things...like everything was sorta
like a fairy tale. All the men were after her, the whole ashley
thing..how she made it to be with her, how she passed the day after
mothers day.
I am sad for Debbie. This was a very deep thing. I received a care
package with pictures of who i now know is Julie. These were actual
pictures (senior pictures) just like the ones that everyone passes
out.
I am in a daze....I am completely stunned!
I just wanted to share my thoughts!
Im just venting............
135 From: "Sara"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:13pm
Subject: kaycee = kelli + j.c. sarapture@...
Send Email
This is not very relevant, but it just occurred to me, following all
you scooby detectives from the sidelines, that from Kelli's n'sync page
the one she pictures and mentions by name is J.C. Kelli + JC =
Kaycee??
Ok, I think this is all starting to get to me too... :)
i'm out for a scooby snack...keep up the good work, gang...
136 From: "Rogers Cadenhead"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:21pm
Subject: Re: coordination mail@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:
> It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or
> do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to
> pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the
> privacy of the people involved.
Julie Fullbright has a right to know that her image is being used by
someone else in an identity hoax, especially since it might involve
fraud.
The person who called the pastor did so out of concern for Debbie. I
was a little surprised she called him, but he was in a good position
to privately seek her out and make sure things were OK.
As for calls to the press, I wasn't comfortable making any of them
myself, because I never sent any gifts or money to "Kaycee." However,
I can understand why people did -- and the only one to blame, if the
story is invasive to privacy, is Debbie Swanson.
Besides, its just desserts. How many people revealed private personal
things to Debbie in phone calls, instant messages, and the like? I
wouldn't be real happy if the woman had my phone number and address,
all things considered.
137 From: sdenbes1@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: Re: coordination sdenbes1@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Rogers Cadenhead" wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., Al Sessions wrote:
> > It is one thing to discuss this amongst ourselves and hypothesize or
> > do web searches. It is quite another to start making phone calls to
> > pastors and reporters, sending emails, and otherwise invading the
> > privacy of the people involved.
>
> Julie Fullbright has a right to know that her image is being used by
> someone else in an identity hoax, especially since it might involve
> fraud.
Absolutely correct. But she doesn't need to know a thousand times. She has been informed already. No-one else needs to write to her.
She's a victim. She's been told. Let's not make her a worse victim.
138 From: clstamper@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 6:47pm
Subject: Re: Feeling a little dizzy clstamper@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki" wrote:
> She was the host of the Love/Relationships Channel for gods sake.
Here's something I never seen asked. This girl's supposed to be this
cute, blonde 19-year-old. Weren't there guys out there trying to hit
on her? What became of them?
Chris Stamper
139 From: kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:09pm
Subject: New poll for kaycee-nicole kaycee-nicole@yahoogroups.com
Send Email
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
kaycee-nicole group:
Did you ever send any gifts or money to
Kaycee Nicole? Please answer each
choice that applies.
If you did not know Kaycee before the
exposure this poll is not for you.
o No gifts or money, just friendship.
o Sent gifts worth less than $5 (e.g. stuffed animal)
o Sent gifts worth $5-25 (e.g. book)
o Sent gifts worth more than $25 (e.g. necklace)
o Sent money under $25
o Sent money from $25-100
o Sent money over $100
o Contributed money to a gift (e.g. via paypal account)
o Sent gifts, received gifts in return
o Sent money, received gifts in return
o Sent no gifts or money, received gifts
o Received money
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kaycee-nicole/polls
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
140 From: dhartung@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:11pm
Subject: Poll: Did you send or receive gifts or money? dhartung@...
Send Email
I created a poll after being asked. This is in no way scientific,
it's just to get an idea of the problem. For people who actually knew
and interacted with Kaycee, please answer whether you sent any gifts
or money, or received anything in return. Check all that apply.
Note: I stand with those who say that people who were defrauded in
this way have a responsibility to contact law enforcement about it.
141 From: saundra@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Online Media Coverage Today saundra@...
Send Email
Kuro5hin has a fairly extensive article about this today, I just found
it:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/5/22/11120/1650
Saundra
142 From: "Nikki H."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...
Send Email
Actually they were...i know she dated this guy on CC..
pale something or other..in fact..i just logged into
my hosts account on CC and saw where his mother posted
her condolences.
This is whats strange its like on each site she was on
she dated someone...
Warning I am really bad with names....
She also dated peter van something I saw some
club..they broke up some real long soap opera.
Then...she dated a doctor on Citizenx. they broke up
a while ago too.
Now when i say dated I am of course talking about
online.....
But she used to always talk about dylan or some guy
with a d that she dated in high school that committed
suicide....
Oh and something of interest..if you want to see
it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC
about Kaycees death.
--- clstamper@... wrote:
> --- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki"
> wrote:
> > She was the host of the Love/Relationships Channel
> for gods sake.
>
> Here's something I never seen asked. This girl's
> supposed to be this
> cute, blonde 19-year-old. Weren't there guys out
> there trying to hit
> on her? What became of them?
>
> Chris Stamper
>
>
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
143 From: LadyJane4U@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Poll: Did you send or receive gifts or money? LadyJane4U@...
Send Email
In a message dated 5/22/01 3:13:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dhartung@... writes:
<< I created a poll after being asked. This is in no way scientific,
it's just to get an idea of the problem. For people who actually knew
and interacted with Kaycee, please answer whether you sent any gifts
or money, or received anything in return. Check all that apply. >>
I sent her a Christmas card when she was "in the hospital".
Becca
sapphire-designs.com
144 From: "Sara L. Olesen"
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy sara@...
Send Email
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikki H."
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little dizzy
> Oh and something of interest..if you want to see
> it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC
> about Kaycees death.
Yes please.
--
Sara - Censored, but not silenced.
http://crunchblogger.tripod.com
145 From: "Nikki H."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Feeling a little dizzy blkbbwprincess@...
Send Email
After a reread it may not be of that much
interest..but here it is anyway..
It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:
From: "Simply KC"
Club: Hosts
Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01
To: hosts@...
Cc:
Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom
Dear CollageClub Hosts,
Please forgive me for borrowing your forum, Kaycee
always warned me when
checking her mail not to touch her host mail. She was
so very proud to be
a host on this site. While in the hospital she would
tell me how she
missed her friends on CollegeClub. She never forgot
about any of you.
You were all very near and dear to her.
She would recant tales of Nick, Alex, Niki, Nicole,
Beth, Heather, and
many others.
She voiced her deep respect for John, Al, Jim and
Bennett. She felt she
was a kid being taught by some of the best teachers.
She had love for each of you individually, and as a
community of peers.
I wanted to thank you personally for the trust you
placed in her, she took
great pride and deep interest in fulfilling her role
as a host. Perhaps
one of the hardest things for her was when she was
unable to accomplish
her part any longer. The greatest accomplishment she
felt was making
friends and forming bonds with many through this
website.
The last several months of her life she continued to
share herself and her
love, though she felt it was silently.
I have decided to keep her account on CollegeClub open
for now. Coming
here offers me a slight amount of peace as we struggle
to move forward.
I thank you for allowing me to be a part of your world
through my
daughter. May God bless each of you.
Debbie
(Kaycee's mom)
*I'm a Genie in a Bottle*
~ Kaycee ~
CC HOST
~ I am not afraid of tomorrow for I have seen
yesterday...and I love
today. ~
~ "Pain is weakness leaving the body." ...Whoever said
that, was wrong!
~ Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes into our house and
pushes us around.
You know what you have to do... It's your
game...let's do it!
Check out my CC Homepages:
http://home.collegeclub.com/Kutebabe/
--- "Sara L. Olesen" wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nikki H."
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: kaycee-nicole Re: Feeling a little
> dizzy
> > Oh and something of interest..if you want to see
> > it..Debbie sent a message to the host group on CC
> > about Kaycees death.
>
> Yes please.
> --
> Sara - Censored, but not silenced.
> http://crunchblogger.tripod.com
>
>
>
______________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
146 From: centrsgrrl@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:31pm
Subject: julie knows centrsgrrl@...
Send Email
ok. i guess i've given julie and her mom enough information and a
head start that i can post this now.
i called julie's mom this morning at 8:30 cst to let her know what
was going on. i come from a small town in north texas (we call it
baja oklahoma) and i know what that's like and i wanted her to be
prepared. she said julie was alive and at home asleep. also, julie
never checks her email and is away from school so she won't see any
messages until september at least.
she (julie's mom) wasn't very web savvy. i gave her all of the links
and information and a friend was helping her sort through it all.
she said in a town that small, 326 people, star athletes like her
daughter were either envied or revered. she said the whole swenson
family had a fixation on her daughter and would travel everywhere she
went to see her play basketball. debbie especially just adored her.
she was the one who gave debbie the photos because debbie offered to
make a photo album for julie's graduation. she was supposed to return
the photos. i don't think she believed me until i started describing
the photos and what julie was wearing, etc. she recognized all of the
photos i mentioned.
i don't think she realized that newspapers keep online archives. she
was shocked to learn that they were so easy to find and that
information about her daughter was out there beyond what debbie was
doing. please be very gentle with them and discreet about the last
name even though it's been posted before.
i don't know what they are planning on doing. they are such nice
devout christians that i seriously doubt they will attempt to sue.
she wants everyone to know that she and julie knew nothing about any
of this and that julie is a good girl who goes to church a lot and is
a great basketball player.
147 From: Matthew Haughey
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38pm
Subject: Re: Debbie's Latest Confession matt@...
Send Email
On 02:34 PM 5/22/2001 +0000, Rogers Cadenhead wrote:
>There's a FAQ about this situation:
>
>http://rootnode.org/article.php?sid=26
>
>It's a good summary, but I think it assumes too much speculative
>stuff as proven already, especially in regard to the latest
>confession that's supposedly been told to people in the media.
My wife just pointed this out (she's a professor):
"also, I have only one problem with the KayCee FAQ. I would change proven
and disproven to something like "shown" or "found to be not true." Sorry, a
thing I have. It is something I beat out of psych students because we
cannot prove anything in psychology."
148 From: ewwgene@...
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:38pm
Subject: Re: Feeling a little dizzy ewwgene@...
Send Email
--- In kaycee-nicole@y..., "Nikki H." wrote:
> After a reread it may not be of that much
> interest..but here it is anyway..
>
> It shows how sick and twisted this thing is/was:
>
> From: "Simply KC"
> Club: Hosts
> Date: 4:43PM 05/16/01
> To: hosts@g...
> Cc:
> Subject: A note from Debbie - Kaycee's mom
wow.
that is sooo wierd. sick and twisted for sure.
Do you think CC doesn't know this is/was a hoax?
this is better than cable tv.
/ewwgene@eww,gene!com
149 From: "simply caren."
Date: Tue May 22, 2001 7:43pm
Subject: Re: julie knows caren@...
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Thanks for letting us know centrs, I found the phone number too this
morning, and tried to call but received the answering machine. I'm
glad that you were able to get through, this helps a lot!
150 From: